Author Topic: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done  (Read 2153 times)

Offline P.I.

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2020, 12:38:17 PM »
  Count me in.


charles
You got it.  We have our first report in from Don Fleenor and the discs are on the way to Paul.  Don alerted me to an issue with the black Memorex CD and I'm in the process of getting a new one to Paul.  I had 4 different files of that target CD and I inadvertently burned the wrong one.  I have since purged the one that ended up on the first CD.  We can thank Don for the heads up  :thumb:

You are going to find this exercise VERY interesting, Charles.   :thumb:
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 09:19:52 AM by P.I. »
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Offline malloy

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2020, 08:22:40 AM »
Dave,

Got them yesterday.  :thumb:

Paul

Offline rollo

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #62 on: August 22, 2020, 08:18:51 AM »
  Thanks Dave. To be played back with Aqua Formula xHD DAC and Dedicated transport. Should be fun.  I'll rip one into the Innuos Zenith mk3 as well.


charles
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Offline rollo

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2020, 09:02:30 AM »
  Thanks Dave. To be played back with Aqua Formula xHD DAC and Dedicated transport. Should be fun.  I'll rip one into the Innuos Zenith mk3 as well.


charles


   Received from Barry in person. Thanks Barry. Listening to all and so far ????? Who is next ? I need a couple more days. Differences heard now re- evaluating my initial findings to verify findings.


charles
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Offline Barry (NJ)

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2020, 10:08:50 AM »
Charles, send your findings directly to Dave (P.I.) in a PM, don't post here ;)

Best, Barry
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Offline P.I.

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2020, 12:42:55 PM »
  Thanks Dave. To be played back with Aqua Formula xHD DAC and Dedicated transport. Should be fun.  I'll rip one into the Innuos Zenith mk3 as well.


charles
Looks like you are the end of the line.  Please PM me with you findings and copy Nick B in on it.   He is keeping all of the results.  When we are all through, then we will discuss this on the open forum.


   Received from Barry in person. Thanks Barry. Listening to all and so far ????? Who is next ? I need a couple more days. Differences heard now re- evaluating my initial findings to verify findings.


charles
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Offline rollo

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2020, 08:28:09 AM »
  OK will do.

charles
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Offline P.I.

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2020, 12:00:52 PM »
Ok, results are in.  Here is the scoop:

Disc @ - the standard disc straight from the vendor

Disc # - this disc was demagged and cryogenically treated

CD-R - Burned from the # disc.

Let the comments begin...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 07:42:45 PM by P.I. »
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Offline Barry (NJ)

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2020, 05:51:24 PM »
Okay, here are my thoughts...

I did a bunch of back and forth with the 2 factory CDs...

@: sharper attack, more air, and darker background.

#: a bit warmer, rounder, fuller, but maybe a bit of grit(?)

 After that I popped the CDR in...

CDR: best of the three for me(?) bigger sound stage, more front to back layering.

In general a nice recording, not my go to genre, but very enjoyable.
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Offline rollo

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #69 on: September 02, 2020, 08:26:58 AM »
  My take was the # disc was the most natural sounding. The CDR was more open however Hi fi sounding meaning sounded processed. Harmonics did not fade they ended crisply. The @ disc was less Hi Fi but still not equal to the #disc.



charles
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 10:30:21 AM by rollo »
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Offline malloy

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #70 on: September 02, 2020, 08:59:37 PM »
I got it totally backward. I thought the @ disc was the treated disc! I preferred the @ disc to the # disc. Less hi-fi sounding is the reason. Is it an indictment of my antiquated stereo or hearing or both ?!!  :rofl: :lol:

I found the vocals on the @ more processed.

This was consistent. I have yet to listen to the CDR - the postman just found it after spending a week in a neighbor's mailbox!

I liked the sound of the 'wrong' CDR disc that Dave sent though.

Paul

Offline Nick B

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #71 on: September 02, 2020, 09:14:42 PM »
I got it totally backward. I thought the @ disc was the treated disc! I preferred the @ disc to the # disc. Less hi-fi sounding is the reason. Is it an indictment of my antiquated stereo or hearing or both ?!!  :rofl: :lol:

I found the vocals on the @ more processed.

This was consistent. I have yet to listen to the CDR - the postman just found it after spending a week in a neighbor's mailbox!

I liked the sound of the 'wrong' CDR disc that Dave sent though.

Paul

Hey Paul,
Seems this might be more an indication of the age of your CD player than your ears and those of your wife, who’s a trained singer if I recall correctly. Waiting for your thoughts on that CDR. As to the postal service, my neighbor recently brought me some of my mail that he had received. Unfortunately, it was a bill rather than a tweaked CDR :(
Nick
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Offline malloy

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #72 on: September 02, 2020, 09:26:52 PM »
Hi Nick,

Ughh. I hate bills. As for the wife, yes, she consistently picked the untreated disc.

Now for my litany of excuses:  :thumb:

Listening conditions were not ideal here when I listened - that was the week when we had 100 degree temps and we were listening in the garage (where she lets me keep my junk...er gear) in sweltering heat and when the house and the whole neighborhood were blasting their ACs. It was also the week I was still probably breaking in the long Oyaide cable. Also hadn't turned on nor listened to the CD player in 6 months, etc. etc.

Well maybe this is the prefect excuse i can use so I can buy new gear.  :rofl:I'll tell the wife, "Well, the cd player is just not up to snuff!"  and I need a power conditioner!

As for the post office, they actually called me up and emailed to make sure I got the package. That was surprising!

Paul

Offline P.I.

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #73 on: September 02, 2020, 10:07:21 PM »
There are no “right” or “wrong” answers in this little shell game we played.  All it really does is demonstrate that “bits is bits” is a pile of crap.  The fact that “perfect sound forever” can be manipulated by processes that the expurtz will tell us, with a great deal of self-righteous sanctimony, will have absolutely no effects on a digital format is telling.  De-magging and cryoing had obvious audible effects on the # disc.  Some preferred it, others did not.  That fact is irrelevant for several reasons.  1:  personal preference - 2:  system dependency (especially the DAC) - 3: ripping and burning software - 4: hard drive type - 5: drive controller  - 6: phase of the moon...  These things are most of, but not all of the mitigating factors that influenced the outcome.

Certainly the cryogenic and demag results are explainable:

Inks are magnetic.  It doesn’t take much energy to nudge a photon.

Cryo increases optical clarity.  Sandra National Labs utilizes one of the worlds highest resolution optical microscope that has cryo treated and cooled lenses.

FWIW - my digital playback system:  2012 Core i7 Mac mini; dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC (massively modified); 1TB Samsung 970EVO SSD; P.I. FireWire 800 cable; OWC Mercury Elite Pro drive enclosure w/WD 6TB 3.5” drive; TWL/P.I. Split Power cable; P.I. MPC mini++ power cable; mass loading; isolation; jumbo jumbo and black candles ... sounds very good to ME and Gayle.  That is all that matters  :thumb:  Hell, I’m 72 with many firearms in my past (mostly using hearing protection), so there ya’ go!

There’s more, but it is late and I’m tired.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 10:10:20 PM by P.I. »
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Offline Barry (NJ)

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Re: Taking Digital Audio Extraction to a level no one else has ever done
« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2020, 06:07:33 AM »
I got it totally backward. I thought the @ disc was the treated disc! I preferred the @ disc to the # disc. Less hi-fi sounding is the reason. Is it an indictment of my antiquated stereo or hearing or both ?!!  :rofl: :lol:

Paul

Hi Paul, you're not alone, I too thought the @ disc was the treated disc. Not sure which I "preferred", but as Dave says, it's not what we preferred but that differences were heard, where some would say there shouldn't be any.

Dave, Thanks again for making this happen!

P.S. I'm curious as to just Cryo vs. just De-Mag treatment, instead of both(?)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 06:11:46 AM by Barry (NJ) »
Happiness is when your system overcomes your nervosa ;) 
So much media, so little time... My Media Room...