Author Topic: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing  (Read 2083 times)

Offline dls123

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2020, 12:43:39 PM »
This Russian lettering system always confuses me........
Is this 6P3S-E tube you guys are discussing the same as this Russian 6N3C-E in this article?

https://jeffsplace.positive-feedback.com/6n3ce-vacuum-tubes/

I use this power tube in my Will Vincent Baldwin organ amp, as it is the one that Will recommends.  Can't compare as I haven't tried any other 6L6 varieties,  but it sounds real good to me.

I ask because my understanding is that both are replacements for 6L6 tubes, and I thought they might be the same tube.

Yes, that indeed is the tube.  The pi symbol is just often written as the P, that is all.   Great tube for a cheap price.

Offline toobluvr

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2020, 01:13:32 PM »
This Russian lettering system always confuses me........
Is this 6P3S-E tube you guys are discussing the same as this Russian 6N3C-E in this article?

https://jeffsplace.positive-feedback.com/6n3ce-vacuum-tubes/

I use this power tube in my Will Vincent Baldwin organ amp, as it is the one that Will recommends.  Can't compare as I haven't tried any other 6L6 varieties,  but it sounds real good to me.

I ask because my understanding is that both are replacements for 6L6 tubes, and I thought they might be the same tube.

Yes, that indeed is the tube.  The pi symbol is just often written as the P, that is all.   Great tube for a cheap price.

Understood about the P replacing the cyrillic Pi.....

But the 2 tubes I reference are named differently in other ways.
The print on my tube has:

N instead of P

and

C instead of S

Are they the same tube?

Thanks......
John
Sunny Cable H2W10, JMR Twins, Gallo subs
TT1: Townshend Rock 3/OL Silver Mk3A/Music Maker 3
TT2: OL Aurora/OL Encounter Mk3C/Dyna xx2-Mk2
Other: Soundsmith Zephyr,  Shelter 501
several amps, peamps, phono stages, digital gear

Offline dls123

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2020, 01:31:54 PM »
This Russian lettering system always confuses me........
Is this 6P3S-E tube you guys are discussing the same as this Russian 6N3C-E in this article?

https://jeffsplace.positive-feedback.com/6n3ce-vacuum-tubes/

I use this power tube in my Will Vincent Baldwin organ amp, as it is the one that Will recommends.  Can't compare as I haven't tried any other 6L6 varieties,  but it sounds real good to me.

I ask because my understanding is that both are replacements for 6L6 tubes, and I thought they might be the same tube.

Yes, that indeed is the tube.  The pi symbol is just often written as the P, that is all.   Great tube for a cheap price.

Understood about the P replacing the cyrillic Pi.....

But the 2 tubes I reference are named differently in other ways.
The print on my tube has:

N instead of P

and

C instead of S

Are they the same tube?

Thanks......
John
Hi
Yes, I looked at the link.  Same tube absolutely.  if you go on ebay and search for 6P3S-E you will see tons.  Just be aware the shipping takes forever now from Russia or even Ukraine.   Also, you have to get the ones with the coin base (thin).   The thick plastic base ones are 6P3S and are not nearly as good a tube so avoid them.  I have been listening to the Reflektor made ones.  There are also Foton factory ones and I don't have experience with them.  Maybe better, maybe worse sounding, or maybe the same, I have no opinion on it due to no experience with them

Offline toobluvr

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2020, 04:59:44 AM »
Thanks for the clarification.   :thumb:

I thought they were the same tube but when I did online searches I never saw the 2 tube designations in the same description as equivalents or substitutes -- just one or the other, but never both together.   Hence, my confusion.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 07:15:41 AM by toobluvr »
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TT2: OL Aurora/OL Encounter Mk3C/Dyna xx2-Mk2
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several amps, peamps, phono stages, digital gear

Offline mresseguie

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2020, 01:59:02 PM »
Don,

You probably told me this before, but I'm curious about the three 6SN7 tubes in my Kootenay 120. Will changing to PSVANE or WE6SN7 Plus tubes noticeably improve the sound, or should I just not be concerned and leave them alone?

Michael
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 03:21:16 PM by mresseguie »
Daedalus Audio Apollos; Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R
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dB Audio Labs Tranquility SE DAC w/Jupiter Caps
Don Sachs Model 2
Don Sachs Kootenay 120 KT88; IdeEdge 1200as2
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Offline dls123

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2020, 03:04:05 PM »
Hi
The WE6SN7plus is really big.  You can fit one of those in the middle and then two other tubes of your choice as the outer ones, which are the drivers.   All make a difference.  I am sure your tubes are fine if the amp sounds good.   The WE6SN7, which is the predecessor to the WE6SN7plus (with the huge bottle) has the same plate structure and they are all I can get right now until Shuguang starts up production again.  Honestly, I cannot hear much difference between the WE6SN7 and the WE6SN7plus, and the WE6SN7 is the same bottle size as all the CV181 types.  The small coke bottle shape.  You can fit three of those across the power amp front.   Will it sound considerably better than the CV181-T or Z you have?   It will sound a little warmer, with the same detail.  Whether that is significant is hard to say.   It would be about a $225 or so experiment.   At some point things are very good already.   

Offline P.I.

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2020, 11:39:04 PM »
At some point things are very good already.
Isn't this always the way it goes?  When to say when.  When ‘better’ becomes ‘different’ I’m done.  It just pick the ‘different’ that is best. :thumb:

Tweak me to the max!  Then, back off one... But, save the max for “those times”. aa
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline dls123

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2020, 07:43:06 AM »
At some point things are very good already.
Isn't this always the way it goes?  When to say when.  When ‘better’ becomes ‘different’ I’m done.  It just pick the ‘different’ that is best. :thumb:

Tweak me to the max!  Then, back off one... But, save the max for “those times”. aa

Sure.  But sometimes you can chase your tail or put money where it could be better spent elsewhere.   A better coupling cap will swamp many a tube difference, etc......    :)

Offline mresseguie

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2020, 08:26:16 AM »
Thanks for the reply.  :thumb:

I should have included more information in my question. Under 'normal' circumstances, I would not dwell over whether this or that tube made much difference <not much of a tube roller>. However, in the last year or so, I bought several pairs and/or quads of tubes as back up tubes in case a tube goes bad on me. Some of them I bought from you, Don; some from eBay; some from The Tube Guy, and one pair from PSVane. Anyway, I find myself with multiple pairs of slightly different flavors of 6SN7 tubes, and two quads of different KT88 tubes.

Without intending to, I've made it possible for me to roll tubes, which prompted my asking you about the three 6SN7 tubes in the Kootenay 120 amp.

My new Model 2 is probably well burned in now. I've lost count of how many hours it's at, but it's well in excess of 100. Just yesterday, I was mesmerized while listening to some Classical piano music. I'm so enjoying the music the preamp/amp combo is producing that I haven't bothered to switch over to my 'summertime' solid state amp.

I still haven't bothered to compare the old and new preamps. In fact, I loaned the old one out to Alan to put in his system for a while. His comment upon adding it to his system, "Dammmmm, what a difference.8)



« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 11:14:46 PM by mresseguie »
Daedalus Audio Apollos; Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R
SW1X DAC III STD
dB Audio Labs Tranquility SE DAC w/Jupiter Caps
Don Sachs Model 2
Don Sachs Kootenay 120 KT88; IdeEdge 1200as2
TWL loom
PI Audio UberBUSS, DigiBUSS, Uber-MiniBUSS, USB cable
Mac Mini

Offline dls123

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2020, 02:38:07 PM »
Thanks for the reply.  :thumb:

I should have included more information in my question. Under 'normal' circumstances, I would not dwell over whether this or that tube made much difference <not much of a tube roller>. However, in the last year or so, I bought several pairs and/or quads of tubes as back up tubes in case a tube goes bad on me. Some of them I bought from you, Don; some from eBay; some from The Tube Guy, and one pair from PSVane. Anyway, I find myself with multiple pairs of slightly different flavors of 6SN7 tubes, and two quads of different KT88 tubes.

Without intending to, I've made it possible for me to roll tubes, which prompted my asking you about the three 6SN7 tubes in the Kootenay 120 amp.

My new Model 2 is probably well burned in now. I've lost count of how many hours it's at, but it's well in excess of 100. Just yesterday, I was mesmerized while listening to some Classical piano music. I'm so enjoying the music the preamp/amp combo is producing that I haven't bothered to switch over to my 'summertime' solid state amp.

I still haven't bothered to compare the old and new preamps. In fact, I loaned the old one out to Alan (AC member Aldcol) to put in his system for a while. His comment upon adding it to his system, "Dammmmm, what a difference.8)

Hi Michael,
Well, if you happen to have any of the WE6SN7 on hand, new or old (WE6SN7 or WE6SN7plus), then run one as the input tube on the amp and see what you think.  It will be a tad bit warmer than the black treasures, but have all the detail.   Or not... just enjoy 

Offline dls123

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2020, 02:46:52 PM »
UPDATE,
My new Spatial Audio X5 speakers have arrived.  Clayton did a special one for me the Polish oil caps.  I have 20 hours on them.  Whoa... integrated amp drives the dickens out of them.  Very special combo.  More as I run the speakers for another 100 hours, but I am VERY impressed, even at this early point!

cheers,
Don

Offline doug s.

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6P3S-E tubes (was: Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing)
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2020, 01:36:55 PM »
ok, so i saw the 6P3S-E tubes mentioned in this thread.  i'm presently thoroughly enjoying 6 per channel in my mesa baron.  great sound, and very stable. the fact that i got them in matched sextets for $160 shipped for the two sextets didn't hurt either.  ;)

doug s.

Offline toobluvr

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Re: 6P3S-E tubes (was: Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing)
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2020, 11:37:53 AM »
ok, so i saw the 6P3S-E tubes mentioned in this thread.  i'm presently thoroughly enjoying 6 per channel in my mesa baron.  great sound, and very stable. the fact that i got them in matched sextets for $160 shipped for the two sextets didn't hurt either.  ;)

doug s.

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Sunny Cable H2W10, JMR Twins, Gallo subs
TT1: Townshend Rock 3/OL Silver Mk3A/Music Maker 3
TT2: OL Aurora/OL Encounter Mk3C/Dyna xx2-Mk2
Other: Soundsmith Zephyr,  Shelter 501
several amps, peamps, phono stages, digital gear

Offline doug s.

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Re: 6P3S-E tubes (was: Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing)
« Reply #43 on: July 18, 2020, 08:56:16 AM »
ok, so i checked my ebay records; the purchase was 6 years ago, and the seller is no longer listed on ebay.  but, there's a lot of ebay sellers for this tube; it might be worth inquiring.  as this thread made me think it may not be a bad idea to get a back-up set, i emailed this seller about getting two sets of matched sextets:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/272861539010?ul_noapp=true

the reply:

"Hi,
Yes, I match them on Amplitrex AT1000.
6 matched tubes x 2 + DHL shipping $200
Olga"


better prices may or may not be available from this or other sellers...

doug s.
ok, so i saw the 6P3S-E tubes mentioned in this thread.  i'm presently thoroughly enjoying 6 per channel in my mesa baron.  great sound, and very stable. the fact that i got them in matched sextets for $160 shipped for the two sextets didn't hurt either.  ;)

doug s.

Vendor?

Offline dls123

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Re: My New Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp Unboxing
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2020, 07:57:24 PM »
That is one reason my amp and the integrated amp are auto biasing:)    You can use any 4 output tubes and unless a tube is so far outside any normal bias range the amp really doesn't care and will happily bias 4 wildly different tubes.   So far I have never seen any tube either amp will not bias, but there is probably one out there somewhere.  So you don't have to pay tons for matched quads of tubes that are often all over the map when you buy 10 or 12 of them... like the 6P3S-E.  Or you have to pay someone considerably more for matching them correctly.  I remember the days of finding a single tube to go with three vintage tubes in a vintage amp.... there was always one tube that would never bias hot enough, and another that was too hot.   You never want to be at the limit of a bias pot in any direction.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 08:48:53 PM by dls123 »