Author Topic: CARTRIDGE HUNT  (Read 1833 times)

Offline steve

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2020, 02:54:55 PM »
   Cool Steve. BUMMER. It appears that both the Delos and Kleos are out of stock at the US distributor. Waiting sucks.


charles

Hi Charles,

I hear you. I wish someone would pickup production of this cartridge and perfect STR needle. Last I heard some are replacing their needles with elliptical. Arg.

Besides lower overall cost, all the parameters pertaining to the sonics are just superb. Of course, the $200 cartridge, late 70s, would probably sell for $2000 now. I hate inflation.

cheers
steve
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Offline BobM

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2020, 05:59:50 AM »
Apparently Mike Fremer said the Kleos is the best "value" in the Lyra line, gives you near-everything at a price well below the Atlas without losing much that their flagship provides. Of course, value is always a relative term. it's still expensive.
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Offline rollo

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2020, 07:35:35 AM »
  Yes expensive at list price. It was suggested I look at the Kuzma line. It appears the Kuzma CAR40 & CAR50 might have an edge on Lyra. Shhhh ! It mates with my arm very well to boot. Using a Kuzma Stogi S 12" arm.


charles
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Offline jimbones

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2020, 10:47:02 AM »
choices, choices  :rofl:
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Offline rollo

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2020, 11:09:55 AM »
choices, choices  :rofl:


  Thank goodness.

charles
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Offline doug s.

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2020, 07:31:32 PM »
re: that acutex, i bet you could get that stylus retipped, even tho the whole assembly pulls of the cartridge.  and the suspension may even be able to be rebuilt.

i've heard some very inexpensive nos a/t cartridges with nude mounted hyper-elliptical styli that sound pretty amazing...  while i am certainly enamoured of low output mc's, i could easily live with a good mm cartridge.

doug s.
So is it universal that none of us wants a MM on our tonearms? 
My Dyna 20x2L and my Blackbird are not on the high end of MC, but they slaughter any MM that I've heard. 
ARE there any MM that compete in the $1K and up range?
Sorry to take your thread a bit astray, Charles.

I have owned the Monster Alfa 1 and 2. I preferred the 1 due to No high frequency zing.

Right now, I am using the Accutex 320 lll STR (brick type) and have no desire to change it. Extremely open, dynamic, flat response to theoretical 45khz, although cable and other capacitances limit to ~35khz right now. Problems are both the cartridge and needle are not manufactured, so used sparingly.

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/acutex/m320.shtml

Near bottom of page below is description of the "perfect" STR needle.

http://www.turntableneedles.com/assets/images/eprod/acutex/acutex_cartridges.pdf

cheers
steve

Offline doug s.

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2020, 07:36:01 PM »
i wouldn't write off sut's.  i'm presently using an old ortofon mc25-fl, a very nice low output mc cartridge that ortofon stopped making, because they'd have had to double the price to make it worth their while. (which they did and then some, after i bought mine; it still wasn't enough to cover their costs.)   so they just dropped it and came out w/newer models.  it's rated at 0.5mv, but gordon rankin of wavelength audio told me it's actually only ~0.25-0.3mv, and that one of his tube fono stages rated to be used w/cartridges as low as 0.5mv wouldn't drive it.  and i believe it.

tho i've always gotten good performance w/it and my relatively unknown pentagon ps3 fono stage, a while back, i bought a used audio interface step-up, for low output mc's.  relatively unknown, it's gotten a few great reviews; a couple of folks have said it outperforms the low output mitchell cotter sut's, which are highly sought after, and typically go for $2k or more.  well, not too long ago, i finally got it the a/i sut up properly, w/the ps3 set to m/m instead of m/c, and the improvement top to bottom is significant.  better tone, slam, soundstaging, and detail.  i always thought it was good before, now it's good:mrgreen:

i also not too long ago bought an audio interface head amp that's battery powered.  i sniped it at a price that was so low, i thought i'd never win it, but ended up getting it for an absurdly cheap price. (and the a/i step up wasn't too expensive, either; the low output 3 ohm iterations are typically advertized for $500 or more, w/the 40 ohm versions usually a bit less, and i was lucky enough to find the low output version for a bit less than the typical price of the higher output iteration.)  anyway, i thought i'd try the a/i head amp as well, but, with the sound i'm getting now w/the step-up, i don't have much motivation.

i had always liked the ortofon enough to put off installing this lyra clavis i bought many years ago from klaus bunge, that has a brand new vdh fritz gyger stylus.  maybe when i get the ortofon retipped?  :lol:

doug s.

Offline HAL

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2020, 07:47:06 PM »
Still love my Shure Ultra500 cartridge with the original Shure stylus.

See them on Ebay periodically and Jico makes the microridge stylus replacements.

Offline rollo

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2020, 08:41:52 AM »
  After thinking about spending crazy money on a new Cart I have decided not to. Why ? After listening to my LPs and same CDs I have concluded Analog has one advantage. Small but evident. LPs deliver a more 3D stage. That is it in my experience. Digital is quieter, same tonality and harmonics. Bass is better with Digital as well.
 But, but I could have better than before ?? Well slightly and for the money spent maybe not smart. The Cart I have a Golden Note Boboli MM suits me well. I have no issues with Cart. So with that in mind decided instead to try another phono stage.
  Using a SS Creek SE with outboard power supply. MM 44db and MC 70db.  An overachiever that never got its due. Just got in an Audio Hungary Qualiton tubed phono a two box affair with MM and optional MC card. To be continued. www.audiohungary.com

charles
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 08:43:27 AM by rollo »
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Offline doug s.

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2020, 11:44:48 AM »
hi charlie,

i agree - i do believe you will get better bang for your dollar by upgrading your phono stage instead of your cartridge.  while creek make nice gear, especially for the $$$, there's much better out there.

curious, tho, about what, exactly, you have.  afaik, creek made only two "se" designated phono stages, the obh8se, which is mm only (37db gain), and the obh9se, which is mc only (65db gain).  they made only one switchable m/m-m/c fono stage, the obh15 (37db/56db gain)

and your cartridge?  there's a gold note bobolino, inductive magnet, 3.0mv; and a gold note boboli, homc; 2.0mv.  it would be useful for you to know what, exactly it is you have, to make certain it's optimally set up with your present or future phono stage...

and, i think you'll also find that with the exception of surface noise, a good fono set up will be superior sounding to digital in all aspects w/the possible exception of the very lowest frequencies, where digital may have a wee bit of an edge, depending on what other gear you have, and what software you're listening to.  especially better in tonality and harmonics. (and you think that the soundstage of vinyl  is better?  with max channel separation of ~25db, how could that be possible?!?   :mrgreen: )

doug s.

  After thinking about spending crazy money on a new Cart I have decided not to. Why ? After listening to my LPs and same CDs I have concluded Analog has one advantage. Small but evident. LPs deliver a more 3D stage. That is it in my experience. Digital is quieter, same tonality and harmonics. Bass is better with Digital as well.
 But, but I could have better than before ?? Well slightly and for the money spent maybe not smart. The Cart I have a Golden Note Boboli MM suits me well. I have no issues with Cart. So with that in mind decided instead to try another phono stage.
  Using a SS Creek SE with outboard power supply. MM 44db and MC 70db.  An overachiever that never got its due. Just got in an Audio Hungary Qualiton tubed phono a two box affair with MM and optional MC card. To be continued. www.audiohungary.com

charles

Offline rollo

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2020, 08:08:34 AM »
  Doug thanks for input. I was not clear as to the Phono I use. I stated Creek SE only because I could not remember the Creek model. It is the Creek  Wyndsor SS Phono-preamp with outboard power supply. Totally adjustable, gain, Cap, load.   Both MM and MC. The cart is a Golden Note Boboli. $1200  when available The Boboli is a neutral affair. The Creek is a neutral affair. Both detailed. So was thinking that a rich character cart. may be a better solution.
  So my choice of a new cart to match Creek OR new phono to match Boboli. With the arrival of the Audio Hungary phono preamp an all tubed unit with outboard SS power supply the game is on. When my Sinus condition goes away I can compare phonos and make a decision, then a decision can be made. The Qualiton phono is $4700 list plus $500 for MC card. The Cart I'm considering is either $3600 or 6K.
  Why ? Is the real question for me. With a State of the Art Digital front end that compares quite well with my analog rig is it worth it. Only I can answer that I guess. However suggestions never hurt.

charles
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Offline doug s.

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2020, 01:37:41 PM »
i wasn't aware that creek made a hi-end fono stage.  that looks nice.  since you're an audio hungary dealer and can likely get that fono stage for 50% of retail, it sounds like a worthwhile endeavor to try it. unless you want to use lomc's you should be fine w/the a/h's standard card.  even w/its mc card, the linn you have may still struggle...

doug s.
ps - a/h's m/c card has built-in sut's...  😉
  Doug thanks for input. I was not clear as to the Phono I use. I stated Creek SE only because I could not remember the Creek model. It is the Creek  Wyndsor SS Phono-preamp with outboard power supply. Totally adjustable, gain, Cap, load.   Both MM and MC. The cart is a Golden Note Boboli. $1200  when available The Boboli is a neutral affair. The Creek is a neutral affair. Both detailed. So was thinking that a rich character cart. may be a better solution.
  So my choice of a new cart to match Creek OR new phono to match Boboli. With the arrival of the Audio Hungary phono preamp an all tubed unit with outboard SS power supply the game is on. When my Sinus condition goes away I can compare phonos and make a decision, then a decision can be made. The Qualiton phono is $4700 list plus $500 for MC card. The Cart I'm considering is either $3600 or 6K.
  Why ? Is the real question for me. With a State of the Art Digital front end that compares quite well with my analog rig is it worth it. Only I can answer that I guess. However suggestions never hurt.

charles
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 01:45:03 PM by doug s. »

Offline Triode Pete

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2020, 03:22:40 PM »
  Doug thanks for input. I was not clear as to the Phono I use. I stated Creek SE only because I could not remember the Creek model. It is the Creek  Wyndsor SS Phono-preamp with outboard power supply. Totally adjustable, gain, Cap, load.   Both MM and MC. The cart is a Golden Note Boboli. $1200  when available The Boboli is a neutral affair. The Creek is a neutral affair. Both detailed. So was thinking that a rich character cart. may be a better solution.
  So my choice of a new cart to match Creek OR new phono to match Boboli. With the arrival of the Audio Hungary phono preamp an all tubed unit with outboard SS power supply the game is on. When my Sinus condition goes away I can compare phonos and make a decision, then a decision can be made. The Qualiton phono is $4700 list plus $500 for MC card. The Cart I'm considering is either $3600 or 6K.
  Why ? Is the real question for me. With a State of the Art Digital front end that compares quite well with my analog rig is it worth it. Only I can answer that I guess. However suggestions never hurt.

charles

Charles - Perhaps you might try to find a used high end MC cartridge (such as Lyra)... Once you "re-calibrate" your ears with analogue, you'll definitely notice something is "missing", when converting digital to analogue, even on a high end digital rig...

My $0.02,
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Offline rollo

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2020, 07:08:35 AM »
  Certainly a consideration. Jury still out. Thanks guys.

charles
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Offline doug s.

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Re: CARTRIDGE HUNT
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2020, 11:51:39 AM »
charlie, if you want to try used, this looks interesting:

http://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/Phono-Preamp/Zesto/Andros-1.2/208066



doug s.