Author Topic: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated  (Read 9216 times)

Offline Nick B

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Re: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2019, 12:14:34 PM »
Nick

For between the speakers and the stands I would just use the IsoAcoustics Pucks which are half the price of the Gaia's and were designed for use in Studios to isolate the monitors.  Also the Herbie's products will do a similar things and are even cheaper. 

https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/loudspeaker-rack-decoupling-and-isolation/products/thin-fat-dot

The gliders instead of spikes on the stands also work well.  Also a good source for power cables at a reasonable price is Audio Envy in Colorado.  Cap will allow a trial period as will Pete.

Jack,
Thanks for the suggestion. Those pucks are still pricey....  I’ll look at Herbies also. Yes, I was planning on trying Cap’s products and maybe Pete’s cord from the wall into the Uber.
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
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Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Jack

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Re: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2019, 01:27:48 PM »
Nick

I am using the Herbie's between the Carrera's and the Tyler Acoustics stands and they do the job.  With the Iso products you would be raising the speakers tweeter about 1 1/2" and that can be an issue on top of the $200 for even the pucks from Walter who usually has the lowest price.  You can however order them from Crutchfield and if they don't work send them back within 60 days.  If you have changed to wood floors the gliders will do the job and not damage anything and even help on carpet.

On the cables I would try them both and see what you think as the combo of the two I use may not be the same as what works for you.

Also try this album on Tidal and see what you hear in terms of harshness or bass problems.  About as clean of a current recording as you will find even if you don't like the music.  Another to try is Ray Brown's Soular Energy especially for the bass issues.

https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Me-Jos%C3%A9-James/dp/B07GG5LV4M/ref=sr_1_1?crid=V00O9U3I1425&keywords=jose+james+lean+on+me&qid=1575667700&sprefix=jose+jame%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-1
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 01:30:11 PM by Jack »
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Offline Nick B

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Re: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2019, 11:00:51 AM »
nick, what's the toe-in on your speakers?  have you tried toeing them in so the intersection is a couple of feet in front of the listening position?

doug s.

Have toed them so as to intersect as you suggest. Have not been able to listen much. Maybe a very slight reduction on harshness and the soundstage is smaller. Was the idea to try and change/lessen the very first reflection?
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Auralic Aries Mini & Mojo Audio lps
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

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Re: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2019, 11:04:55 AM »
Nick, perhaps you've already answered this earlier, but what kind of support are your speakers sitting on?  I've got a very different room and speakers, but  I was having a good bit of bass boominess and lack of clarity awhile back.   I replaced the spikes on my speakers with IsoAcoustics GAIA footers and all I can say is WOW.   Completely cleaned up the boom.   I also put the IsoAcoustics OREA footers under my Devialet which also improved things (but not as much as under the speakers).   Probably the best tweaks I've ever used.   Anyway, just a thought.

Mike,
Thanks for the suggestion. It will be a while before I can get to that. Jack has mentioned them as well. I have moved the Fritzes out more from the wall and that’s helped with the boominess.
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Auralic Aries Mini & Mojo Audio lps
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline doug s.

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Re: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2019, 11:17:39 AM »
my experience has been that it does not reduce soundstaging, and actually improves it if not directly centered between the speakers. and in some cases, i've found it to actually improve overall soundstaging.  typically, with speakers crossed before the listening position, you're getting the same slightly off-axis presentation as if you had the speakers mildly toed in to intersect behind you.  and when you're not directly centered, you're getting a more direct sound from the speaker further away, which is why it's better outside the "sweet spot".  if you're getting a reduced soundstage width, you could try increasing the space between the speakers, or changing the distance from the listening position to the speakers.  as i recall from pics of your room, that might be easier said than done...

and yes, extreme toe-in should lessen the first reflections. and it will also reduce the brightness, similar to normal mild toe-in, as the tweeter is usually hottest directly on axis...

doug s.

nick, what's the toe-in on your speakers?  have you tried toeing them in so the intersection is a couple of feet in front of the listening position?

doug s.

Have toed them so as to intersect as you suggest. Have not been able to listen much. Maybe a very slight reduction on harshness and the soundstage is smaller. Was the idea to try and change/lessen the very first reflection?
Nick

Offline Nick B

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Re: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2019, 10:48:41 PM »
Thanks for the various suggestions. I have the Fritzes toed in 18” from the wall. That is the measurement of one rear corner of the cabinet and the other corner is 21” away. The Fritzes axis intersects about 2’ in from of my listening position. That is per Doug’s suggestion. The soundstage is fine. I tried pulling the Carreras out further from the wall, but it actually added some boominess back in. The speakers are about 5’ apart and I don’t have a lot of flexibility in that regard.

I played the Jose James album “Lean on Me” that Jack suggested. The presentation was quite nice, but still with some harshness. It is what it is.... I’ve been in this house for 16 years with basically the same speaker placement and no room treatments.

I did more web searches today for room correction software and read about Dirac, deqx, minidsp that includes Dirac, Lyndorf...  I could have tried the speakers on another wall, but that wall has four glass panels. The furniture placement would have been a bit awkward and my listening position would not have been as comfortable.

The holidays are approaching and I continue to break in the Carreras (over 220 hours).
I’ll keep reading about room correction and may try these products after the new year.
ICEpower 1200as2 amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Auralic Aries Mini & Mojo Audio lps
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline steve

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Re: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2019, 11:56:10 AM »
Thanks for the various suggestions. I have the Fritzes toed in 18” from the wall. That is the measurement of one rear corner of the cabinet and the other corner is 21” away. The Fritzes axis intersects about 2’ in from of my listening position. That is per Doug’s suggestion. The soundstage is fine. I tried pulling the Carreras out further from the wall, but it actually added some boominess back in. The speakers are about 5’ apart and I don’t have a lot of flexibility in that regard.

I played the Jose James album “Lean on Me” that Jack suggested. The presentation was quite nice, but still with some harshness. It is what it is.... I’ve been in this house for 16 years with basically the same speaker placement and no room treatments.

I did more web searches today for room correction software and read about Dirac, deqx, minidsp that includes Dirac, Lyndorf...  I could have tried the speakers on another wall, but that wall has four glass panels. The furniture placement would have been a bit awkward and my listening position would not have been as comfortable.

The holidays are approaching and I continue to break in the Carreras (over 220 hours).
I’ll keep reading about room correction and may try these products after the new year.

A walmart full size pillow or two in each corner (~ $4.00/ea.) behind the speaker will help relieve the boominess to some extent, leaving you some room for adjustment. I sue two.

cheers and great week.

steve
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 11:58:37 AM by steve »
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Offline mresseguie

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Re: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2019, 01:09:33 PM »
Thanks for the various suggestions. I have the Fritzes toed in 18” from the wall. That is the measurement of one rear corner of the cabinet and the other corner is 21” away. The Fritzes axis intersects about 2’ in from of my listening position. That is per Doug’s suggestion. The soundstage is fine. I tried pulling the Carreras out further from the wall, but it actually added some boominess back in. The speakers are about 5’ apart and I don’t have a lot of flexibility in that regard.

I played the Jose James album “Lean on Me” that Jack suggested. The presentation was quite nice, but still with some harshness. It is what it is.... I’ve been in this house for 16 years with basically the same speaker placement and no room treatments.

I did more web searches today for room correction software and read about Dirac, deqx, minidsp that includes Dirac, Lyndorf...  I could have tried the speakers on another wall, but that wall has four glass panels. The furniture placement would have been a bit awkward and my listening position would not have been as comfortable.

The holidays are approaching and I continue to break in the Carreras (over 220 hours).
I’ll keep reading about room correction and may try these products after the new year.

A walmart full size pillow or two in each corner (~ $4.00/ea.) behind the speaker will help relieve the boominess to some extent, leaving you some room for adjustment. I sue two.

cheers and great week.

steve

Steve,

Thank you for the pillow idea. I have used variations of this for a couple years, but I was never certain it was anything more than a foolish idea.

Michael
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Offline Nick B

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Re: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2019, 03:15:49 PM »
Thanks for the various suggestions. I have the Fritzes toed in 18” from the wall. That is the measurement of one rear corner of the cabinet and the other corner is 21” away. The Fritzes axis intersects about 2’ in from of my listening position. That is per Doug’s suggestion. The soundstage is fine. I tried pulling the Carreras out further from the wall, but it actually added some boominess back in. The speakers are about 5’ apart and I don’t have a lot of flexibility in that regard.

I played the Jose James album “Lean on Me” that Jack suggested. The presentation was quite nice, but still with some harshness. It is what it is.... I’ve been in this house for 16 years with basically the same speaker placement and no room treatments.

I did more web searches today for room correction software and read about Dirac, deqx, minidsp that includes Dirac, Lyndorf...  I could have tried the speakers on another wall, but that wall has four glass panels. The furniture placement would have been a bit awkward and my listening position would not have been as comfortable.

The holidays are approaching and I continue to break in the Carreras (over 220 hours).
I’ll keep reading about room correction and may try these products after the new year.

A walmart full size pillow or two in each corner (~ $4.00/ea.) behind the speaker will help relieve the boominess to some extent, leaving you some room for adjustment. I sue two.

cheers and great week.

steve

Thanks, Steve. Part of the problem is the asymmetry of the room. One speaker is in a corner and the other has no boundary side wall. Your pillows suggestion is an easy one to try.
Nick
ICEpower 1200as2 amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Auralic Aries Mini & Mojo Audio lps
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline steve

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Re: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2019, 08:52:38 PM »
Thanks for the various suggestions. I have the Fritzes toed in 18” from the wall. That is the measurement of one rear corner of the cabinet and the other corner is 21” away. The Fritzes axis intersects about 2’ in from of my listening position. That is per Doug’s suggestion. The soundstage is fine. I tried pulling the Carreras out further from the wall, but it actually added some boominess back in. The speakers are about 5’ apart and I don’t have a lot of flexibility in that regard.

I played the Jose James album “Lean on Me” that Jack suggested. The presentation was quite nice, but still with some harshness. It is what it is.... I’ve been in this house for 16 years with basically the same speaker placement and no room treatments.

I did more web searches today for room correction software and read about Dirac, deqx, minidsp that includes Dirac, Lyndorf...  I could have tried the speakers on another wall, but that wall has four glass panels. The furniture placement would have been a bit awkward and my listening position would not have been as comfortable.

The holidays are approaching and I continue to break in the Carreras (over 220 hours).
I’ll keep reading about room correction and may try these products after the new year.

A walmart full size pillow or two in each corner (~ $4.00/ea.) behind the speaker will help relieve the boominess to some extent, leaving you some room for adjustment. I sue two.

cheers and great week.

steve

Thanks, Steve. Part of the problem is the asymmetry of the room. One speaker is in a corner and the other has no boundary side wall. Your pillows suggestion is an easy one to try.
Nick

Using one in the corner might balance things out a little down there, and a little bit might be enough. Interesting experiment and cheap.

cheers and good luck.

steve
Steve Sammet (retired, owner, SAS Audio Labs)
"V" Very Low Capacitance ICs, 40pf 1 meter
SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Tube Reference Preamplifier
SAS Audio Labs 25 W Triode Reference Monoblocks
2 way test Spkrs, 28 - 20khz  -3db (28hz)

Offline Nick B

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Re: thinking about new amp and pre or integrated
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2019, 10:22:53 PM »
Thanks for the various suggestions. I have the Fritzes toed in 18” from the wall. That is the measurement of one rear corner of the cabinet and the other corner is 21” away. The Fritzes axis intersects about 2’ in from of my listening position. That is per Doug’s suggestion. The soundstage is fine. I tried pulling the Carreras out further from the wall, but it actually added some boominess back in. The speakers are about 5’ apart and I don’t have a lot of flexibility in that regard.

I played the Jose James album “Lean on Me” that Jack suggested. The presentation was quite nice, but still with some harshness. It is what it is.... I’ve been in this house for 16 years with basically the same speaker placement and no room treatments.

I did more web searches today for room correction software and read about Dirac, deqx, minidsp that includes Dirac, Lyndorf...  I could have tried the speakers on another wall, but that wall has four glass panels. The furniture placement would have been a bit awkward and my listening position would not have been as comfortable.

The holidays are approaching and I continue to break in the Carreras (over 220 hours).
I’ll keep reading about room correction and may try these products after the new year.

A walmart full size pillow or two in each corner (~ $4.00/ea.) behind the speaker will help relieve the boominess to some extent, leaving you some room for adjustment. I sue two.

cheers and great week.

steve

Thanks, Steve. Part of the problem is the asymmetry of the room. One speaker is in a corner and the other has no boundary side wall. Your pillows suggestion is an easy one to try.
Nick

Using one in the corner might balance things out a little down there, and a little bit might be enough. Interesting experiment and cheap.

cheers and good luck.

steve

Steve,
Am playing with pillow placement right now as well as a hinged, 3 piece room divider (shaped as a triangle) in the corner. Am enjoying Dave’s latest treated AC outlet. Just had it installed today  :thumb:
Nick
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 11:04:35 PM by Nick B »
ICEpower 1200as2 amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Auralic Aries Mini & Mojo Audio lps
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS