Author Topic: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers  (Read 16089 times)

Offline Nick B

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2019, 09:10:28 PM »
I spoke with Fritz today and bought the Carreras. I have over 150 hours now and that is more than enough to confirm what a wonderful speaker this is. I’ll post more comments after 250 hours.
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Offline Nick B

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2019, 07:01:20 PM »
These “tiny tot” Fritzes continue to improve and amaze. About 175 hours now. Very musical and great fun to listen to. Detailed, holographic, great tonality. What a great match too with my Audio Hungary preamp.
As a brief aside and not wanting to derail this thread, I’m considering amps or integrateds from microZOTL, Audio Hungary or just trying the used market for a while.
I sent an email to the guy who bought my Nolas in 2018 as I value his experience and opinions. Received a detailed, very helpful response.
What a great hobby that folks are so helpful and generous with their time  :thumb:
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Offline mresseguie

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2019, 10:17:00 PM »
I've got a question for any of you who own the Carrera Be or Rev 7 SE speakers.

Are you satisfied with their frequency range, or do you ever ponder adding a subwoofer? Alternatively, have you ever imagined taking the Carreras and adding a 10" woofer to make a three-way speaker? Is this unnecessary?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Michael
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 10:26:04 PM by mresseguie »
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Offline Jack

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2019, 11:57:31 PM »
Michael

In most situations for most people the bass from the Revelator woofer in either of the two speakers is more than enough in an average room.  In my situation I have the Rythmik and ACI subs in place so I use them in all three systems no matter what the speaker is.  In a large room a subwoofer may be needed as soundstage fill.  Properly adjusted the subs make the Carrera's sound bigger than they are if that makes sense.
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Offline mresseguie

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2019, 06:38:23 AM »
Good morning, Jack.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I guess my curiosity stems from my having a pair of Daedalus Apollos (3-way with a 10" woofer). The sound is marvelous. I think I want to recreate that sound, but in a less expensive pair of speakers. It's not so much that I'm trying to stretch down to ~20Hz. It's more the idea of improving the midwoofer's overall efficiency and sound by cutting its load in the lower frequencies.

If I bought such a three-way speaker for our home in Oregon, it would be placed in our TV room whose cubic foot size is huge because of the open floor plan - kitchen, breakfast nook, family room + cathedral ceiling. My single F12G is insufficient - two may not be enough. Trying to add more subwoofers butts up against the dreaded WAF.

The Apollos have spoiled me, and changed how I think about speakers even though most of the music that I enjoy listening to is well covered by the Carreras.

Michael

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Offline doug s.

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2019, 12:03:48 PM »
hi michael,

my experience w/subs is that a pair of subs that will go in room to an honest 20hz will improve almost any speaker, even if it can already do low end.  when i first got my pair of vmps larger subs and active marchand x-over, the speakers i was using were rated -2db at 20hz.  crossing them over at 70hz made them sound better, as well as improving the low end, because they weren't as stressed, and did what they did above 70hz that much better. whatever nominal effect a high quality active x-over has on the main speakers is far outweighed by the speaker not having to see the lowest octave.  set up your apollos w'a pair of good subs like that, and even they will sound better, imo.  and if a pair of your present subs aren't enough, buy three and stack two per side.  or simply replace it w/a pair w/more output.

a pair of carrerra's actively crossed over to subs will give full range speakers a run, and may even outperform many.  i have a pair of proac tablette reference 8 signatures that make the carrerra's seem big, and even in my 26x38 room, when they're crossed over to the vmps subs at 80hz, the sound is really quite amazing, if i do say so myself...   8)  of course, they actually look kind of funny, as they're truly tiny, at 10.5"x6"x 9".  my kef ls50's, when in that room, also looked a bit odd, as they're not much bigger (12x8x11):


doug s.
Good morning, Jack.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I guess my curiosity stems from my having a pair of Daedalus Apollos (3-way with a 10" woofer). The sound is marvelous. I think I want to recreate that sound, but in a less expensive pair of speakers. It's not so much that I'm trying to stretch down to ~20Hz. It's more the idea of improving the midwoofer's overall efficiency and sound by cutting its load in the lower frequencies.

If I bought such a three-way speaker for our home in Oregon, it would be placed in our TV room whose cubic foot size is huge because of the open floor plan - kitchen, breakfast nook, family room + cathedral ceiling. My single F12G is insufficient - two may not be enough. Trying to add more subwoofers butts up against the dreaded WAF.

The Apollos have spoiled me, and changed how I think about speakers even though most of the music that I enjoy listening to is well covered by the Carreras.

Michael

Offline Jack

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2019, 01:20:10 PM »
Michael

While probably not as big an area to fill as yours my Family Room is a little over 5500 cubit feet with an 8' foot opening in the rear to the Kitchen/Breakfast Room and an opening to the Foyer in the back left so still a bit of space to fill.  I found the Carrera's and two F12G's to do the job admirably.  I had the Carrera's seven feet apart on 24'" black wooden Tyler Acoustics stands.  The two subs were placed just to the inside of the stands and a few inches back crossed at 50 hz.  With the speakers being in a Tiger Ebony finish there are enough black stripes in the veneer to blend in with the subs and stands so not presenting an image much different than a wide baffle floor standing speaker.  While the sub placement was probably not ideal like your situation this is a public access space so some consideration must be given to WAF unlike in my enclosed dedicated room.  I bought the Tyler stands years ago on AC for a really good price though currently they are pretty pricey new.  An acceptable alternative are the stands from Ascend Acoustics which are also square pillar MDF and fillable.

http://ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/access/spkstnds/pedstlcmt340.html

So if you use two black F12's and the stands in matte black along with a complimentary veneer and place them similar to how I had them I suspect it might pass the WAF test. Show her the stands and subs and let her pick the veneer for the Carrera's that she thinks works.
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Offline mresseguie

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2019, 03:42:01 PM »
Doug & Jack,

Thank you.

In my imagination, I was trying to add bass and reducing the load on the woofers by recreating new 'super' Carreras by combining Carreras with <for example> CSS-Audio's 10" woofers into a single floorstanding cabinet. That would require a new cabinet ($$$), new XO ($$$), and paying someone to design them ($$$). Buying one more F12G + a pair of Carreras must be a heckuva lot cheaper.

Now, how do I get my wife to say yes? Hmm. Sell ALL of my excess gear, take her on a trip to Europe, and I may have to buy her a new car.  :shock:

« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 03:44:20 PM by mresseguie »
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Offline Jack

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2019, 04:15:18 PM »
Michael

If Fritz put two Revelator woofers and the Be tweeter in a floor standing cabinet you might get the speaker that fits the bill.  Would be similar to what Klaus did when he went from the Kismet monitor to the Liquid. 
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Offline Folsom

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2019, 07:10:49 PM »
Fritz's crossover method doesn't work with 3 ways.

An MTM is the limit to adding drivers really.

Active bass can be added. I'm curious if it's possible to do this kind of crossover with larger woofers like 12's or 15's and a compression driver... that would be interesting. That would be potentially worth paying to have developed.

Offline mresseguie

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2019, 07:26:40 PM »
Fritz's crossover method doesn't work with 3 ways.

An MTM is the limit to adding drivers really.

Active bass can be added. I'm curious if it's possible to do this kind of crossover with larger woofers like 12's or 15's and a compression driver... that would be interesting. That would be potentially worth paying to have developed.

That helps explain why he sells two-ways!

Thank you.

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Offline doug s.

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2019, 07:35:09 PM »
..Buying one more F12G + a pair of Carreras must be a heckuva lot cheaper.

Now, how do I get my wife to say yes? Hmm. Sell ALL of my excess gear, take her on a trip to Europe, and I may have to buy her a new car.  :shock:
hmmm...  a new sub, x-over and the carrerra's, even new/retail would be ~$5k.  if you have to pay the boss w/selling you excess gear, a trip to europe, and a new car, it sounds like you're getting the short end of the stick.  really short end...   :lol:

doug s.

Offline Jack

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2019, 07:47:56 PM »
Michael

I wonder what it would do if he added 24-26" to the cabinet height sealed from the passive components with another powered Revelator driver though I don't think he can go much larger as there is just under an inch on either side of the current driver.  Klaus is using two of the same driver in the Liquid with the second one on the bottom in a separate compartment and getting mid 20's response out of them.  I was getting -6 db at 25 hz from the Lorelei's in the larger cabinet with just one.  The Liquid's front baffle is only 1" larger and that includes those rolled edges. He could use one of the Hypex modules like Clayton is using in the new X series. Might be worth asking to see what he prices it out at.  Might eliminate adding anymore subs other than what you have with your F12 crossed over at around 40 hz just for the presence factor.
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Offline Folsom

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2019, 08:03:13 PM »
You can't really compare Fritz to others too much. But I'm sure an MTM with a larger cabinet would get lower. I'd want the headroom from an MTM if I wanted it to play lower, but then again 35hz is plenty low enough IMO, until you add some active subs.

Offline Jack

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2019, 08:56:31 PM »
Not comparing Fritz to Klaus as I am aware that the crossover designs are completely different.  My point was that in a cabinet 24" taller and a similar baffle size that Klaus is using two of the same driver to get into the mid-20's.  Whether it would be easier for Fritz to do with both drivers passive or one active would be a decision for him to make.  Whatever would get Michael the bass response he needs along with the WAF. Even though the Carrera's have been replaced in the FR system with the Nola KO's which do mid 20's on their own the two Rythmik subs are still in play with the crossover reduced. The KO's are using two 7" SEAS drivers in separate compartments with the mid's and tweeters open baffle.
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