Author Topic: Do We Need Linestages ????  (Read 1822 times)

Offline mresseguie

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2019, 04:11:07 AM »
Both of my tube preamps make my music sound more pleasant. I prefer to have a preamp over having a DAC/pre combo.
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Offline rollo

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2019, 11:12:46 AM »
Both of my tube preamps make my music sound more pleasant. I prefer to have a preamp over having a DAC/pre combo.


   Spot on !

charles
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Offline pursuitofnow

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2019, 08:31:08 PM »
The amps I use require 2 volts and sound even better with 4-8volts. Everything from dynamics, density, and imaging are just better. So I would think it really depends on your amp to determine if linestages are "needed".
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Offline P.I.

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2019, 09:58:59 PM »
It has been my experience that both voltage output of > 3v is essential along with adequate drive current.

Some years ago I listened to my passive driven by a Cary 306 and also a preamp with a lot of current at the same voltage.  The pre was decisively betterin terms of PRAT.

A big part of what makes it all work are output and input impedance IME.
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Offline doug s.

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2019, 06:09:44 PM »
re: voltage output, it could be one of the reasons why the melos preamps are so nice.  i have been told that the ma333r can drive speakers directly.

doug s.

Offline rollo

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2019, 08:28:58 AM »
  Agree Dave it is essential to have >3V from source and low input sensitivity of less than 1V for ultimate passive pre performance.
Doug a great preamp, a classic when working.  :-P


charles
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Offline steve

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2019, 03:23:29 PM »
I am a little confused. Do you gents mean greater than 3 or 4 volts output capability, when using a passive control, or another condition? 

Probably a stupid question, but I ask because usually that kind of actual signal voltage output will have the cones parachuting to the floor.   :rofl:

Cheers

steve
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Offline steve

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2019, 08:57:29 AM »
  Agree Dave it is essential to have >3V from source and low input sensitivity of less than 1V for ultimate passive pre performance.

charles

I missed your post Charles, which answers my question, and I agree.

cheers
steve
Steve Sammet (retired, owner, SAS Audio Labs)
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Offline rollo

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2019, 07:40:25 AM »
   ARGHAH !! DAC with 3V or more is what the Doctor ordered when using a passive Pre.

charles
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Offline steve

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2019, 07:41:50 PM »
   ARGHAH !! DAC with 3V or more is what the Doctor ordered when using a passive Pre.

charles

Yes, we already agreed with you. Upset?

cheers
steve
Steve Sammet (retired, owner, SAS Audio Labs)
"V" Very Low Capacitance Interconnects
SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Tube Reference Preamplifier
SAS Audio Labs 25 W Triode Reference Monoblocks
2 way test Spkrs, 28 - 20khz  -3db (28hz)

Offline Response Audio

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2019, 08:53:31 PM »
Not a fan of using a source straight into an amp. Even with a passive pre, you dont get the dynamics and impact you would with a preamp. Looses emotion in my opinion.

Offline rollo

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2019, 08:55:56 AM »
Not a fan of using a source straight into an amp. Even with a passive pre, you dont get the dynamics and impact you would with a preamp. Looses emotion in my opinion.

   Great point which I agree with. After fooling with several passive designs the active preamp is KING for me. When all the bases are covered with a passive one may get more clarity however looses the soul and emotional impact.


charles
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Offline P.I.

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2019, 08:53:58 PM »
Not a fan of using a source straight into an amp. Even with a passive pre, you dont get the dynamics and impact you would with a preamp. Looses emotion in my opinion.

   Great point which I agree with. After fooling with several passive designs the active preamp is KING for me. When all the bases are covered with a passive one may get more clarity however looses the soul and emotional impact.


charles
+1... unless the source has enough voltage and current to adequately drive the amp input at a friendly output impedance through the passive.
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Offline steve

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Re: Do We Need Linestages ????
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2019, 07:13:33 PM »
I agree, and of course use a line stage preamp. As we all know, external passive controls that use an interconnect cable have that evil capacitance.

I did a little calculating, and with 4 volts rms musical signal, using a 100k ohm volume control,
the signal current through the pot is only 40 ua (microamps, or millionths of an amp); not much.

With 4 volt rms musical signal, 10k pot, 400 ua, or 0,4 ma (milliamp) through the pot; again not much.
10k is also about as low a resistance load as one can use with capacitive output preamplifiers as bass
response starts or is already dropping.

It is imperative to minimize capacitance in this signal path. With an input volume pot in the pre or the
amp, the capacitance is basically, Miller capacitance, with a smattering of input and stray capacitance.

cheers
steve
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 07:16:22 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (retired, owner, SAS Audio Labs)
"V" Very Low Capacitance Interconnects
SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS Audio 11A Tube Reference Preamplifier
SAS Audio Labs 25 W Triode Reference Monoblocks
2 way test Spkrs, 28 - 20khz  -3db (28hz)