Author Topic: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...  (Read 6341 times)

Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2018, 11:14:10 AM »
More on the continuing review by Paul:

"Hey Dave, It's now been almost a month and a half spending time with Furutech gold and yours. I tried to listen to gold for a week or more since last email, but it just leaves me listening to my system and not music. Maybe if I had not heard your outlet I would feel different and wouldn't know what was missing or added, I really tried to make myself like gold. Gold is a very good outlet compared to stock orange (one). Furman outlet is not balanced like yours. Yours clears up haze, it's a clear balanced picture and leaves me not wanting anything, everything is there and my mind relaxes. Sometimes I feel a little crazy writing an outlet can do this but I can't deny what I hear. It's just a very musical, low noise floor, transparent item that solved a problem in my system! Thank you so much for sending me your new outlet, Paul"

Thanks for the thorough review, Paul!   :thumb:
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 03:02:49 PM by P.I. »
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Offline rollo

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2018, 12:05:28 PM »
  We should add to that the most important fact. NO COLORATION what so ever. Solid clean weighty sound. Everyone here needs at least one at wall. Next in your conditioner an Uber I imagine. BTW I have the previous issue not even the better one. WARNING !!!!! Needs mucho break in 200 hours. Was wondering how many Ribs and Lbs of Brisket I can eat while waiting for break in. Bring the beer.

charles
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Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2018, 11:59:46 AM »
Here it is.  Like most of my other parts and pieces it ain't purdy.  I prefer to spend my time and my customers' money on the inside.

Introductory pricing is $80.00 ea + $7.20 shipping for up to 4 receptacles.
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Offline rollo

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2018, 01:28:50 PM »
  OK now I rub some of Daves secret sauce on the contacts of the plugs and IEC cord and component. Tighter, more focused and more meat on the bone. Very nice improvement to what I thought could not possibly get better.
  Graphene sauce. No meatballs included, just some applicator brushes and " the sauce".


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
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Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2018, 01:01:24 PM »
  OK now I rub some of Daves secret sauce on the contacts of the plugs and IEC cord and component. Tighter, more focused and more meat on the bone. Very nice improvement to what I thought could not possibly get better.
  Graphene sauce. No meatballs included, just some applicator brushes and " the sauce".


charles
Eric Hider and I were alking about just how much data is on media that we just can't seem to extract.  Clean contacts are an absolute must.  Just how many dirty windows do we want to try to look through to see the performance?  Contacts are the easy ones to get to. Changing out receptacles is easy except for those that are just not adept at all when it comes to the weekend warrior aspect of homw ownership.

Getting power clean is essential.  Along with this goes the necessity of polished contacts being essential.  Then getting the conductors as microscopically clean and ready for work is high up on my list.

These receptacles are the finest OEM versions of the 20A NEMA spec I could find for sonics with the BUSSes.  Curious as always about optimization of the core device  [ you remember "POOGE" -  Progressive Optimization Of Othewise Generic Equipment ] I started playing with the receptacle and found tat it is a great platform for optimization.  It has very thick contacts of High Conductivity High Brass in a very beefy case.  It is also pretty easy to get apart.  Here is what goes into that receptacle as delivered as a P.I audio group 5362A-Mod G

Receptacle is disassembled
Ultrasonically cleaned organic solvent
Inspected for defects after cleaning
Contacts spread for wheel access
2 step buffing and polishing process
Inspection for defects in materials processing.
30-40% % cull
Polishing process one more time
One more ultrasonic cleaning and organic cleaning process.

Fun, huh?

<><

D

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Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2018, 01:02:45 PM »
  OK now I rub some of Daves secret sauce on the contacts of the plugs and IEC cord and component. Tighter, more focused and more meat on the bone. Very nice improvement to what I thought could not possibly get better.
  Graphene sauce. No meatballs included, just some applicator brushes and " the sauce".


charles

Itsa a PITA...
Eric Hider and I were alking about just how much data is on media that we just can't seem to extract.  Clean contacts are an absolute must.  Just how many dirty windows do we want to try to look through to see the performance?  Contacts are the easy ones to get to. Changing out receptacles is easy except for those that are just not adept at all when it comes to the weekend warrior aspect of homw ownership.

Getting power clean is essential.  Along with this goes the necessity of polished contacts being essential.  Then getting the conductors as microscopically clean and ready for work is high up on my list.

These receptacles are the finest OEM versions of the 20A NEMA spec I could find for sonics with the BUSSes.  Curious as always about optimization of the core device  [ you remember "POOGE" -  Progressive Optimization Of Othewise Generic Equipment ] I started playing with the receptacle and found tat it is a great platform for optimization.  It has very thick contacts of High Conductivity High Brass in a very beefy case.  It is also pretty easy to get apart.  Here is what goes into that receptacle as delivered as a P.I audio group 5362A-Mod G

Receptacle is disassembled
Ultrasonically cleaned organic solvent
Inspected for defects after cleaning
Contacts spread for wheel access
2 step buffing and polishing process
Inspection for defects in materials processing.
30-40% % cull
Polishing process one more time
One more ultrasonic cleaning and organic cleaning process.

Fun, huh?

<><

D
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline Nick B

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2018, 05:20:14 PM »
  OK now I rub some of Daves secret sauce on the contacts of the plugs and IEC cord and component. Tighter, more focused and more meat on the bone. Very nice improvement to what I thought could not possibly get better.
  Graphene sauce. No meatballs included, just some applicator brushes and " the sauce".


charles
Eric Hider and I were alking about just how much data is on media that we just can't seem to extract.  Clean contacts are an absolute must.  Just how many dirty windows do we want to try to look through to see the performance?  Contacts are the easy ones to get to. Changing out receptacles is easy except for those that are just not adept at all when it comes to the weekend warrior aspect of homw ownership.

Getting power clean is essential.  Along with this goes the necessity of polished contacts being essential.  Then getting the conductors as microscopically clean and ready for work is high up on my list.

These receptacles are the finest OEM versions of the 20A NEMA spec I could find for sonics with the BUSSes.  Curious as always about optimization of the core device  [ you remember "POOGE" -  Progressive Optimization Of Othewise Generic Equipment ] I started playing with the receptacle and found tat it is a great platform for optimization.  It has very thick contacts of High Conductivity High Brass in a very beefy case.  It is also pretty easy to get apart.  Here is what goes into that receptacle as delivered as a P.I audio group 5362A-Mod G

Receptacle is disassembled
Ultrasonically cleaned organic solvent
Inspected for defects after cleaning
Contacts spread for wheel access
2 step buffing and polishing process
Inspection for defects in materials processing.
30-40% % cull
Polishing process one more time
One more ultrasonic cleaning and organic cleaning process.

Fun, huh?

<><

D

I really like how you think, Dave. Start at the very beginning so you don’t have to try and clean up the noise that’s introduced there
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Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2018, 12:12:25 PM »

[/quote]I really like how you think, Dave. Start at the very beginning so you don’t have to try and clean up the noise that’s introduced there
[/quote]


As far as we are concerned power is what it is at the incoming access panel.  We can do what we can do to make things better at that point.  There is a lot that can be done.

I can't remember if I have posted this LOW EMF HOUSEHOLD WIRING FOR AUDIO APPLICATIONS article before here at AN, but it is a great place to start for dedicated home owners:

"                               Choosing Household Wiring for Low EMF
                                                by Andrew Eriksen
from left to right: ROMEX 12/2, ROMEX 12/3, EMT conduit, IMC conduit, MC 12/2
Modern buildings have electrical wiring in all walls, and often in ceilings and floors as well. As electricity runs through the cables to be consumed elsewhere, an electromagnetic field [EMF] is generated. This field surrounds the cable in its entire length and becomes weaker with increasing distance to the cable. Electromagnetic fields are bothersome to some individuals and can be measured by a gaussmeter.
When wiring a new building, or upgrading an existing building, it may be prudent to choose a type of cable that emits less EMF, but which one to choose?
To find out, a selection of cables and metal conduits were purchased. Only types that are widely available and in general use in the United States were chosen. The cables tested were:
 ROMEX 12/2 (2-conductor, AWG 12)
 ROMEX 12/3 (3-conductor, AWG 12)
 MC 12/2 (flexible metal-clad, 2-conductor, AWG 12)

2 Choosing Household Wiring The conduits tested were:
 EMT - lightweight steel conduit
 IMC - heavy steel conduit
The AWG 12 thickness of the wires were chosen, as they are used for household wiring carrying up to 20 amps.
A Wiring Primer
In the electrical trade, the grounding wire is always present in a cable and is not counted as a conductor. A “2-conductor cable” thus has three wires inside – a black one for the phase, a white for the neutral, and a bare copper wire for the ground. In some cases, the ground wire is green instead of bare.
A 3-conductor cable has one additional wire, which is usually red. This type of cable is commonly used for bringing two-phase (230 volt) electricity to electrical stoves, clothes dryers and water heaters. It can also be used for lighting circuits with two switches, such as in each end of a hallway.
Test setup
A combination of cables and metal conduit were tested under identical conditions. To provide a test load, a 1380 watt space heater of brand Intertherm (now SoftHeat) was placed approximately 20 feet away.
The metal conduits tested were sold in 10-foot sections, but we used six-foot samples due to transportation restrictions. The measurements were done at the middle of the conduit. In all tests, the ground wire in the cable was connected to the ground in the wall outlet, as it normally would be.
The ROMEX 3-conductor cable tested was used without connecting the extra wire to anything. It was not tested whether connecting it to the ground would be helpful. Doing so would violate the National Electric Code, which is very specific about the color codes, and forbids running wires in parallel.
To limit outside interference with the test, a specially shielded outlet was used, while the breakers were off to all the other outlets within twenty feet. The outlet used had regular wiring inside EMT metal conduit, which went all the way back to the breaker box.
The EMF levels were measured by a gaussmeter of the TriField brand, produced by Alpha Labs in Utah. The TriField meter was outfitted with the optional external
Choosing Household Wiring 3 probe that makes it one hundred times more sensitive and able to pick up EMF
down to 0.01 milligauss.
The 120 volt AC power in the building did have some overlying static (“dirty power”) which could be picked up with an AM radio. This static was present whether any current was running or not. It appeared to come from the outside of the building and this was deemed not to be a problem for this comparison.
Results
The results from the gaussmeter readings are shown in Table 1. It is clear that the 3-conductor ROMEX wire (ROMEX 12/3) is vastly superior to the 2-conductor (ROMEX 12/2). This is due to the fact that the individual wires inside the cable happen to be twisted around each other. This effect is used in wires for computer networks and long telephone cables, so it was not a surprise that it also worked well here.
What was surprising was that the ROMEX 12/3 cable also is superior to the other cable combinations tried, i.e. the flexible metal-clad cable (MC 21/2) and when the ROMEX 12/2 was put in metal conduit and even when put in the heavy duty IMC conduit.
When the ROMEX 12/3 cable was further shielded by EMT conduit, the radiation level become so low that it only measured 0.4 milligauss directly on the surface of the conduit.
Table 1: Distance in inches from cable for specific EMF levels
1 milligauss (0.1 microtesla)
0.2 milligauss (0.02 microtesla)
0.01 milligauss (1 nanotesla)
ROMEX 12/2
10.5
18.5
37
ROMEX 12/2 in EMT
3
6.5
25
ROMEX 12/2 in IMC
2
5
15
ROMEX 12/3
0.6
1.7
3.3
ROMEX 12/3 in EMT
--
0.7
2
MC 12/2
1.5
2.3
3.7
Conclusion
If wanting to wire a house for lower EMF levels, using the 3-conductor twisted ROMEX 12/3 (or any other suitable AWG size) is clearly a good choice. It is about ten times as good as the standard 2-conductor ROMEX wiring.
4 Choosing Household Wiring
The extra cost of using a 3-conductor cable is minor; it just costs somewhat more due to having more copper in it. The price was very close to the cost of the metal- clad MC cable, and much cheaper than using the rigid metal conduits (EMT and IMC) as they are much more labor intensive to install.
It is only when combining the 3-conductor cable with a metallic conduit that even better results are possible. Whether going this route is cost-justifiable must depend on the project; in most cases it probably is not.
Putting the 3-conductor cable in metal conduit may be a violation of the National Electric Code, NEC, even if one wire is never used (the reason is that the extra wire could later carry more power, which could generate more heat, which is the basis for the NEC). Discuss the project with the local building inspector.
An alternative to using the 3-conductor cable is to convert a 2-conductor cable by twisting it. This would be a little cheaper and should not cause any potential issues with the building inspector.
The tested 3- conductor ROMEX cable did a full turn of the wires inside it for every four inches (10 centimeters) of running cable. This twist could be duplicated by hand – perhaps by using a variable-speed (low speed) power drill with a bent nail in the chuck to hold the cable. A non-electric set up should also be possible.
Twisting the cable more than once per four inches may improve the shielding effect. The author has not tested these possibilities.
A Comment for the Chemically Sensitive
Some manufacturers of ROMEX type cables add a slippery coating on the surface of the cables. This coating makes it easier to pull the cable through a conduit, but it can be bothersome to sensitive individuals. The author tried to leave a sample in the desert sun for one month, but it was still bothersome.
Cables made by Southwire have this coating, which is called SIMpull. Another manufacturer, Encore, does not use such a substance. If the local building supply store only stocks ROMEX with this coating, try an electrical supply store."

Thank you Andrew Erickson for a great article on "sound" advice.
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Offline Nick B

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2018, 03:27:31 PM »
Thanks for posting, Dave. When I was much younger, it seemed common to put wire into metal conduit. Then it was the simplicity of drilling holes through wood and easily routing the Romex wire that way. I disliked Romex as I’ve, on a couple of occasions, drilled into it and shorted the wires. When I ask contractors about using metal conduit, I usually get a blank stare or a shrug of the shoulders. Were i to build another house, I’d insist on it...assuming the building code allowed it.
As to having an extra wire, I had never heard of possible building code issues or the potential to generate more heat.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 09:07:50 PM by Nick B »
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Offline tmazz

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2018, 04:55:52 PM »
I doubt there is anything in the NEC banning the use of 3 conductor cable inside of a metal conduit. In the ice rink that I work at the compressors each pull 100amps of 408v 3 Phase and that is run inside of metal pipe. What I think may be the case is that you cannot run 3 conductor 12 ga wire in the same size pipe that you would use for 2 conductor wire. You may just need to step up to a bigger pipe.

But I agree, it is always good to check with the local building department before undertaking a job like that. While local rules cannot be laxer than the NEC they are quite often stricter.
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Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2019, 06:39:04 PM »
Just had an epiphany about this receptacle is loaded with because I keep getting question about what can possibly be responsible for the ‘not’ small improvement in SQ.

In keeping with my weirdness and nodding to the flat earthers I have decided to name the material Interstellar Floobie Dust.

Anand (Posiedon’s Voice) has named this receptacle the Uber Puerto.  So, let the haters begin:

The Uber Puerto is loaded with Interstellar Floobie Dust for improved SQ.  I can only imagine posters on some “other” forums talking about them  :o

Let the mirth and frivolity begin!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 08:33:26 PM by P.I. »
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Offline jimbones

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2019, 11:51:43 AM »
I doubt there is anything in the NEC banning the use of 3 conductor cable inside of a metal conduit. In the ice rink that I work at the compressors each pull 100amps of 408v 3 Phase and that is run inside of metal pipe. What I think may be the case is that you cannot run 3 conductor 12 ga wire in the same size pipe that you would use for 2 conductor wire. You may just need to step up to a bigger pipe.

But I agree, it is always good to check with the local building department before undertaking a job like that. While local rules cannot be laxer than the NEC they are quite often stricter.

we call that cable fill. It must be less than 50%.
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Offline Nick B

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2019, 07:11:14 PM »
I’ve had the P & S receptacle from Dave for a long time and just had it installed a few days ago. The receptacle feeds the Uber and all the audio gear is plugged into the Uber. The P & S provided a very nice improvement. I was surprised, but I shouldn’t have been knowing Dave worked his magic on it. First of all, the noise floor is lower and provides more detail. The timbre of the instruments is more natural. The glare of violins, trumpets and female vocals is reduced on recordings (I’ll discuss this in an other post)
This is a very good and inexpensive upgrade and I heartily recommend it!!
Nick
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Offline P.I.

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2019, 02:15:16 PM »
I’ve had the P & S receptacle from Dave for a long time and just had it installed a few days ago. The receptacle feeds the Uber and all the audio gear is plugged into the Uber. The P & S provided a very nice improvement. I was surprised, but I shouldn’t have been knowing Dave worked his magic on it. First of all, the noise floor is lower and provides more detail. The timbre of the instruments is more natural. The glare of violins, trumpets and female vocals is reduced on recordings (I’ll discuss this in an other post)
This is a very good and inexpensive upgrade and I heartily recommend it!!
Nick
Nick,  I just saw this.  Thanks for the nice review.  The one you have is a hand polished version of the 5362A.  The newer Uber Puerto is considerably better in every regard. With the RFI mitigating Intergalactic Flooby Dust added internally the noise floor is much lower than the hand polished. This is really apparent in the mids on up where RFI causes glare and listening fatigue.
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Offline Nick B

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Re: P.I. audio group Modified P&S 5362A receptacle journey...
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2019, 02:53:30 PM »
Dave, my thanks to you for such innovative products that so reduce the noise floor. Although I very much enjoy my current system, I’ve been thinking of new wires or components to get rid of that glare. I have some seemingly very good recordings of a female vocalist named Nana Mouskouri  that do sometimes have that harshness. When I asked the handyman to install the receptacle and explained why, he didn’t bat an eye. Your Uber Puerto might be cheaper than new components  :roll:
ICEpower 1200as2 amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Auralic Aries Mini & Mojo Audio lps
Audio Envy cables
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS