Author Topic: Dave's IC's  (Read 23599 times)

Offline rollo

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Dave's IC's
« on: April 29, 2013, 08:20:43 AM »
  Received two one meter pairs to check out. Put them on the Audio Karma Pro break in device and now have about 10 hours of actual play time.
    Well Dave so far so good. I will reserve final comment until I have 100 hours on them.
   No ill effects yet.. No extra sibilance with vocals a great start. Not thin or heavy so far however still changing a bit.
    So far nothing bad. A very good start.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
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DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2013, 10:17:54 AM »
Glad to hear it  :-P

I think the strength of these cables is in what they don't do compared to other cables I have tried. There's a lack of unfavorable effects like sibilance or harshness, they aren't bright, warm or emphasize one frequency range. They are neutral, clear and allow detail to be heard that you might not get with other cables due to them covering up the detail with other "grunge".

Although I have other versions in the works that use higher end connectors and ground wires, they will be much more expensive and not as good of a value for the money as the ones you have now, which are currently at $140 as a special intro price.

I did get a little website up (it is a work in progress  :?) at davescables.com.

Thanks for checking them out Charles.  :thumb:

DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2013, 06:28:14 PM »
Here's some details for those who are interested in cables...

RCA plugs are Furutech FP-126(G). They feature an OCC copper center pin, copper alloy (brass) body and teflon insulation. Normally I would try to avoid brass altogether, but Furutech has found a way to make it sound good, their highest end RCA plugs actually use a brass filament center pin (pictured below) which I plan on using in a higher end version of this cable, the other difference being Neotech OCC copper ground wires instead of silver plated teflon mil-spec.

Signal wire is Neotech's cotton covered hook up wire, which uses many, many fine strands of enamel coated OCC copper braided around a flat polyester film core. The concept is a derivative of a litz-wire, the very thin wires eliminate skin effect.

The IC cable is assembled using Johnson ia423 tri-eutectic solder (silver, copper and tin), cardas paste flux, and skivved teflon tape. The tape is cut from a solid billet of teflon and costs over $100 for a roll, it is wrapped around the tip of the Neotech signal wire to keep it from fraying and is also capable of taking the heat from soldering with no problem.

I am also making speaker cable using the same Neotech wire as the ICs, but in 20 gauge. It is for low powered systems or for use as a mid/high frequency cable in a bi-wire, multi-amp or active system.

I hesitate to gush too much about my own product, but when I made the first set of ICs I was amazed at how good they sounded. While I don't have a lot of high end ICs to compare, I have built A LOT of ICs over the years. My best IC is made of cable bought from Jupiter Condenser, which is an 8-strand litz-braided helix, cotton core, cotton insulation, 6N copper and uses Eichmann plugs. The cable I'm selling is significantly better which took me by complete surprise. I was NOT planning on marketing this cable, but I feel the results are worth sharing.

My goal is for this cable to be the best value on the market bar none, I think it will compare favorably with any cable regardless of price. Cables have always been a shady area in high end audio, all too frequently very expensive cables use $2 switchcraft plugs and have a grand total of under $20 in parts at full retail. My cables's Furutech plugs retail for $57...

Here's some pics:

ICs







High End Ftech plug w the filament pin:



SCs



Bananas and Spades... also Furutech.



Neotech 20g hook up wire. The film core is marked with a red sharpie for visibility.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 06:32:15 PM by DaveC »

DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2013, 07:26:45 PM »
I made another cable... Duelund silver foil signal wire, Neotech OCC copper ground wires, Furutech FP-101 RCA plugs. This cable cost 10x more in parts vs the cable pictured above...  aa

Still burning in, but yeah... it's ok  8)




Offline sleepyguy24

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2013, 07:30:26 AM »
Wow pretty sweet looking cables.

I have some questions and sorry if they seem stupid.

Are these ICs better suited between source (CDP,DAC, Phono preamp) to preamp or preamp to amp?

How much break-in do they require?

Are the Furutech FP-126(G) RCA plugs really thick in diameter vs Switchcraft RCA plugs?

The reason I ask is that I'm finding with older gear and these thicker barrel RCA plugs when everything is plugged in the space between the RCA is TIGHT. Sometimes I see the RCAs touch each other and I get paranoid and put a spacer in between. I've experienced this with RCAs from Outlaw Audio, IXOS, and various Monster cables.

With the braided cables are they very rigid?

Thanks and best of luck on this venture.

DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2013, 09:22:52 PM »
Thanks!

The ICs will work great in any position, shouldn't matter if it's source > preamp or pre > amp.

Break-in is pretty minimal for the Neotech EC-UPOCC cables, I'm still breaking in the Duelund cable, it seems like it could use more break-in time vs the Neotech cable.

The Furutech plugs aren't that big, about 1/2" diameter.

The Neotech cable isn't very rigid, the Dueleund is more rigid as it uses solid core wires, but still not difficult to handle. All of them would rather bend in one direction, perpendicular to the flat side of the wire since both cables are made with flat wire.

So far the Duelund wire sounds really nice, honestly it isn't as neutral as the Neotech wire but has more harmonic "richness". I also built a cable exactly the same as the Duelund cable but with the Neotech signal wire, it's really amazing and will sell for around $300 while the Duelund cable will have to go for around $500.

DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2013, 07:44:51 PM »
Any updates Charles? :)

I have one!... I am looking at having Neotech make me custom wire... 14g EC-UPOCC copper with cotton blend insulation, same as the wire I'm currently using, just bigger! 

Right now, they only make the EC-UPOCC wire up to 20g. It makes amazing speaker cables but 20g is only suitable for lower powered systems. I'd have to make a cable with 4 runs of wire to get it down to 14g. Also, if I had 14g wire I could make a speaker cable with double runs of wire that would be 11g equivalent, the same gauge would take 8 runs of 20g, which is more than a little impractical.

I'd be the only one with this wire in the entire world, which is pretty cool...  8)  I am hoping I can keep the price of a set of speaker cables made with this wire under $500, and if it's as good as the 20g wire I'd put them up against any speaker cable out there regardless of price.

I also feel my new $299 cable with the FP-101 RCAs and OCC copper ground wires could stand up to comparison with any IC regardless of price.

I'm really trying to make expensive cables completely obsolete here.  :D

DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2013, 10:05:01 AM »
Just a FYI, I'm running a few auctions on ebay right now with prices starting a bit lower. One especially good deal is the IC cable made from Duelund 1.0 Silver/Silk signal wire, Neotech UPOCC copper ground wire and Furutech FP-101 RCAs starting at only $399, which is less than the retail cost of the parts used to make it... You can hit "see other items" for a full list of the auctions I am running.

I am especially happy to hear my basic IC cable ($140, but there's an auction starting at $115) compares favorably with a highly regarded IC that retails for $1k, the ASI Liveline...

"Dave,

cables came today - thanks so much. They are in place of my ASI Liveline ICs now and are sounding great.

I'll keep you up to date on my impressions,"

-N

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330936215467?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Offline rollo

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 08:39:13 AM »
  Now with 200 hours on them them they best the Gronenbergs in my system. Very neutral, dynamic and open.
  My only cravat is the size of the sound stage. However that just could have been something else new in the system that was also breaking in.
    I have been breaking in all the gear for the CAF in July. Now that all is broken in [ Deulund caps another 100 hours to fully blossom ] I can fully evaluate them.
    However tonality, harmonic structure and no added color is very addictive. Dynamics are explosive. Good job Dave.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm - Aqua Acoustic Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm Speakers - PI Audio Uberbuss - Triode Wire Labs- Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungry Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt-Arion-Vinnie Rossi

DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2013, 09:37:42 AM »
Thanks Charles!

If you like those cables, the higher end version with Furutech FP-101 RCA plugs and Neotech UPOCC copper/teflon ground wire is even better... by a significant, easily audible margin. There is more detail and a lively, energetic presentation... and a bit more energy in the upper mid to high frequencies. So it can come across as brighter in comparison, but in my system I really like it a lot. Those with bright tweeters might find them to be too much, IDK.

But the cables you tested are no slouch in comparison, they are 90% as good for less than half the price and in some ways are more neutral than the $299 cable. And they are certainly a better value for the money, the more expensive cable has hit the point of diminishing returns on investment, but for those who want the best regardless of cost the extra money is going to be worth it. And $299 isn't too expensive for an IC compared to the cost of high end cables in general. Mine just don't have a 10x markup.  :)

Also, I am very excited to say I have ordered custom 14 gauge Neotech EC-UPOCC cotton covered wire to make speaker cables out of. The 20 gauge cables are amazing and with the 14g cable I can offer that level of performance to folks with higher powered systems, I also plan on offering a doubled run (11g equivalent) for those with VERY high powered amplifiers as well.

Offline mdfoy

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 11:32:03 AM »
I had purchased a standard IC (Dave I) and was really taken by them.  I like the SQ of the OCC wire and already having an example in my system was intrigued by Dave's.  After some time on the Dave I,  I found the SQ exceeded another OCC cable that I had in place. I sent Dave a ping for another IC and Dave was nice enough the offer audition of the Dave II.

Dave I
The signature of the cable is clarity and image focus.  It is like the fuzz is removed from the edges.  On first listen I thought he bass was diminished, but it was in reality just tighter.  This became even more so after some time on the cables.  They just got cleaner and tighter.  Voice is presently nicely and pace an tone are right on.  Cassandra Wilson, James Taylor, Sade,  the tone and warmth of the mids and treble are very good and clear as a bell.  A caveat is I have monitor speakers that go pretty low for monitors, but they are monitors.  All of the bass is there, an example is Cassandra Wilson, Loverly, The Very Thought of you. If you don't have any Cassandra Wilson in your collection, you are really missing out.  Piano is done very well, no stridency or muddiness. Keith Jarrett, Kohln Concert is a beautiful thing. 

Dave II
Everything the Dave I does, the Dave II does better.  This is not night and day, but clearly better in every way.  The noise floor is lower and has even more clarity, liveliness, tone, note decay... Everything is just better. On Cassandra Wilson. Loverly, Dust My Broom, the lead in drum and transition to the bass, the guitar! Off the chain!. Another example, James Taylor, Nearness of You, Don't Let Me be Lonely Tonight. The warmth and tone of his voice is right on.

I really like the Dave I, but the Dave II is in another league.  Benz and AMG, both good, but....

I thank Dave for the opportunity to audition the Dave II IC, which I have purchased.  I definitely want give a listen to the higher power speaker cables when available.  The cost to performance ratio of his offerings is way off the scale.

My system
Amp             Odyssey Khartago mono's ++
Pre              Response Audio Bella-Max(Purity One prototype)
DAC             NorthStar M192
Transport    NorthStar M192
Speaker      Salk HT1   
Phono         Heed Quasar
TT               Thorens TD-125 MKII
 
IC                Source to pre - Soundstring
IC                Pre to amp - Dave II - replacing Dave I
IC                Phono to pre - Clarity Cable - Harvest
SP               Coz bi-wire
Music
Cassandra Wilson, Loverly
Michael Brecker, Nearness of You
Sade, Lovers Rock
Keith Jarrett, Kohln Concert
Tord Guvstavsen, The Ground
Where there is doubt, there is no doubt

DaveC

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 07:34:00 AM »
Thanks for posting your review, well done!  :thumb:

Offline topround

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 06:10:07 AM »
I am getting some Daves cables and will post my impression.
From what I have been reading and speaking to other audiophiles that use the Neotec wire, it may be great.

Lots of people really love this wire for lots of uses.

I heard some Wireworld cables that were probably one of the best cables I ever heard but they are very very expensive, are they worth it? actually yes if you can afford them because they can transform your system, but do they HAVE to cost that much?

With the cable industry using a 10X formula I think not, but factor in advertising, marketing , dealer markup and it gets expensive fast, lot's of hands involved looking for cash.

Dave is a DIY guy with no overhead, perhaps these cables can come close for much less money, which means more access to great cables for more people. :thumb:

Mike
System consists of an amp a preamp, 2 speakers a turntable and a phono preamp, Also some cables and power cords and a really cheap cd player.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 08:51:10 AM »
I am looking forward to reading your impressions Mike. Have fun! Will you be comparing to Paul's?

Offline topround

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Re: Dave's IC's
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 07:32:19 PM »
No,going to compare it to nothing. Just see if they work in my system.
I have heard some amazing cables lately but big money . I have heard great things from others about the neotec cables!
Perhaps they can come close to some of the stuff I like for much less money. Honestly why a wire costs more than a component is a sin.
A sin we audiophiles allowed. Now our insecurity must pay the price
Maybe?
System consists of an amp a preamp, 2 speakers a turntable and a phono preamp, Also some cables and power cords and a really cheap cd player.