My little rant

[evan1]

I enjoy looking at system photos over at agon
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frv.pl

But what gets me is someone that has an uber expensive system and their speakers are only a rack width, about 20-22 inches apart from each other. What can they possibly be hearing ?

[tmazz]

I enjoy looking at system photos over at agon
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frv.pl

But what gets me is someone that has an uber expensive system and their speakers are only a rack width, about 20-22 inches apart from each other. What can they possibly be hearing ?

Which system? This link just brings me to the home page for virtual systems, not any one in particular.

This has been a pet peeve of mine on A'gon for a long time. It just makes me crazy to see someone spend huge amounts of money on a system only to set it up in a way that couldn't possibly let it perform anywhere near the level that is capable of. Spending a large amount of money on components does not guarantee that you'll get great sound, only that you'll own expensive equipment. Looking through not only the virtual systems section on A'gon, but also the classified ads it amazes me that the more expensive the gear, the more likely that the photo will make me cringe. Mind you, I have nothing against expensive gear or the people who buy it. I guess what bothers me is just knowing how good some of that uber expensive gear could sound if set up properly and imagining how far short of that potential many of these systems are falling. (I shake my head at some of the poor setups I see of cheap gear too, but in those cases the upside potential of the system is often limited by the equipment itself so there in not as much to lose from a less than optimal setup.)

And bottom line is its their money, so if spending it that way make them happy. oh well, it's their business. But as an audiophile who takes great pains in making any system I setup sound the best that it is capable of sounding, looking at pictures of a really poorly set-up system makes me shake my head and mourn the loss of what could have been.   

It's not unlike the feeling you would get watching somebody grind the gears on a vintage Ferrari because the don't know how to use a clutch. 

[evan1]

I was just browsing . Nothing in particular . If you browse through you will see them

[tmazz]

I was just browsing . Nothing in particular . If you browse through you will see them

I guess that was part of my point. It's just scary how many badly set-up systems there are out there. (Maybe we should mail some kind of invite to those system owners to come hang out with us over here and learn something about proper set-up.  )

[stereofool]

Better, yet!

After they get disgusted with how bad their mega-buck systems sounds...we can swoop in and pick up their used equipment, for a song  .

[Carlman]

There's truth to that comment, Steve.. I think a lot of folks build systems in a way that they are essentially competing with the room they're in... and they can't fix the room for whatever reason so equipment gets swapped in and out to see what reacts best with it. 

Unfortunately, that fact is rarely realized so the equipment gets the credit for sounding better or worse, rather than the slight shifts caused by the gear that resonate better with the space.

It's like preferring a Honda to a Ferrari... the driving characteristics are typically better to a non-race driver in a Honda.. but if you have the skills and/or awareness of a racer, the Ferrari would not only be better but could be tweaked even more... to just how you like it.

[lonewolfny42]

How's this setup....





It's Bob's.....

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vdone&1064946893

[tmazz]

How's this setup....





It's Bob's.....

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vdone&1064946893

OK, I know the room and the owner so I can guarantee that this system will be setup and tweaked into optimal performance, but let's set that aside and look at what we can tell just from looking at the picture. The speakers are placed at a good difference from the back wall and are not shown as being stuffed right up against a side wall either (You can't prove from the picture that they are not, but at least it doesn't show that they are.) and using the width of the equipment shelves as guidelines (the must be close to 2 foot wide since they are comfortably holding 19" wide equipment) Given that I would guess that the speakers were in the area of 5-6 feet apart. From just looking at this picture can I say that this would sound good? Not really because the photo gives you no idea what the rest of the room looks like. The picture does not show anything that would severely limit the capability of the speakers. And the placement of the speakers out and away from the equipment rack and the (visible) walls indicates to me that this equipment was set up considering sound quality first and decorating second and not the other way around. I can look at this picture without slapping myself in the forehead and saying "what the hell were they thinking???", which is not often the case with other A'gon photos/

[allenzachary]

Often, it's the fact that uber dollars were spent on uber equipment that brings the joy to the owners.  Some get pleasure from spouting off that they spent umpteen thousand on that amp and even more on the cabling between them. To folks like that, system set-up is an inconvenience.

Part of the appeal of the Ferrari Carl discussed, is the fact that it draws attention.  True, if you have great driving skills, a Ferrari would be a blast to drive, but in most cases it is simply a "look at me!" device.

[Carlman]

Part of the appeal of the Ferrari Carl discussed, is the fact that it draws attention.  True, if you have great driving skills, a Ferrari would be a blast to drive, but in most cases it is simply a "look at me!" device.

I have always had a hard time understanding that mentality.. and yet I've had a few people think I'm like that.. which genuinely confuses me... and they generally get it later.. but it's a concept I can't wrap my mind around.. It's like going somewhere just to say you've been.. what a huge waste of time.

-C

[BobM]

Thanks for the kind words Tom, and the picture Chris. Yes, I try to measure things out and make the room work for the system, not the other way around.

My observation about Audiogon is that there are so many really expensive systems being shown. I mean, I know a few people who have mondo $ components and mondo $ in general, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Those of us who did manage to purchase a really nice piece usually did so in the used market and got quite a deal on it, or it probably wouldn't have happened.

Now, for some of us a $5000 component is out of reach, for others it is an expected price point (especially these days, but not so much the case 10 years ago). What I'm really talking about here are pieces that cose $15-20-30K or more. These are all over Audiogon. There are obviously a lot of very rich people out there, and this leads me to believe that the high end will continue and not just crumble, as has been projected for a long time now.

It's also good for the rest of us, because used equipment can sometimes be had on a fire sale, especially as time goes by, and the rest of us can pick up something really nice at a good price (relatively speaking). And it is nice to hear what these others have to say about a piece over time, and whether it gets flipped easily or quickly, or not.

[mfsoa]

I always got the impression that the systems pictured on Agon were way above the norm, $$-wise, indicating that these folks enjoy showing off their gear (= wealth) for whatever reason.

For sure a few of these systems must sound like crap, set up the way they are in the rooms they are in.

Or the mega-buck systems that have the 300 gallon fishtanks in the same room, he he.

[JLM]

I'm so with this thread.  

Most folks should have "dumbed down" speakers for casual listening in their crummy rooms (if that's the best they can do for a room) and use a good set of cans for serious listening. I did that back in my college dorm days.  Worked great; didn't flag expensive stuff for the light fingered, or clumsy curious; didn't disturb others; wasn't disturbed by others; and kept the investment low.

A year or so ago there were lots of pics floating around of the uber systems that Greek audiophiles had assembled and they were all eye candy in nothing rooms/setups.  

I do appreciate that many folks can't have anything close to the ideal room, but that's where the reality of the situation needs to be accepted.  Reminds me of the car stereo guys trying to see how many speakers they can shove into a car.  

When we built 6 years ago I got a man cave that I had built to the "Cardas Golden Cuboid" (8 ft x 13 ft x 21 ft), interior walls adjoined storage spaces, added an insulated fiberglass exterior door with weather seals, and used lined/insulated flexible duct for ventilation.  With cheaper carpet and cryo'd hospital grade 20A duplex receptacles it still ended up being the cheapest square footage in the house.  I also follow the Cardas prescribed nearfield setup with single driver speakers and as a result the six GIK 244 absorption panels are of almost no benefit.

[rollo]

How's this setup....





It's Bob's.....

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vdone&1064946893

  A tough room it is, but professor Bobo has nailed it so far. Looks are deceiving.



charles