AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Speakers => Topic started by: Bob in St. Louis on December 05, 2011, 03:32:51 PM
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Hey, you guys wanna see me build some open baffle speakers?
If so, then read on....
If not, then tell me to buzz off. :lol:
I'm posting this piggy-back on the build thread on the manufactures site, so I could be called a fanboy shill, but I thought you might like to see some sawdust.
Anyway..... Here goes.....
Tony, A local St. Louis fella had lurked long enough on the HawthorneAudio site that he contacted me about listening to my system. Seem after hearing us (fanboys) chat about it, he was interested in hearing the Sterlings Duets for himself. So of course I brought him into my home and gave him a big tall glass of Hawthorne Audio kool-ade. 8)
Tony is a great guy with an interesting taste in music. Suffice it to say that he expanded my musical horizons just a wee bit. :shock:
After tolerating a few technical difficulties, we finally got to hear his favorite (reference) tunes on my system, albeit in a slightly handicapped capacity. At the time, I was unable to rip his CDs to listen through my reference two channel system. The only way for Tony to hear his music was to pop the disc into my Sony Playstation (PS3). Granted, not very high up on the list of high end audio equipment to say the least. But my prized little gaming and Bluray player was enough to pull off enough magic that Tony was sufficiently impressed. His description of the sound quality was "not audiophiley", to the extent that he commissioned me to build him a set of Sterling Duets of his very own.
So here is Tony's build thread....
We chose (my favorite) three layer of 3/4" Russian Baltic Birch with a sand fill. Darrel Hawthorne will be building the XO's and shipping them to me later. I'll be building Tony an enclosure to house the XO unit as well as the Keiga plate amps (one for each speaker).
The new twist to this one, is that Tony has chosen to use a veneer, which is new to me. But fortunately, he's trusting enough of my abilities to see what I can come up with. Not sure what type of wood veneer we'll have, that comes later.
Here's what we've got so far, with a couple captions:
Four sheets of 5'x5'x3/4" Russian Baltic Birch:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/1.jpg)
Rough cuts for the speakers six layers of plywood and the XO/Amp box:
{Note; if it looks like I cut the end of some of those a bit crooked, that angle happens to be exaclty 12.5 degrees. More on that later.}
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/2.jpg)
A photo of the right and left channel middle layers with the markings that will be hollowed out later to accept the sand fill:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/3.jpg)
The six layers for the two speakers:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/4.jpg)
The layers stacked:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/5.jpg)
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I've got a bunch of photos from the work today, mainly dealing with the "T-Nuts" and what they are (I've been asked privately what a t-nuts is, and how it works). That being said, the pictures mainly focus on those and what's up with them. There's also noticable progress on the project as a whole though....of course. ;)
The first pic is a test fit of the two 15" drivers. Of course, now would be a good time to know if they don't fit.
Notice the R1, R2, R3.....The "R" is "Right speaker" and the number is it's position in the layers.
- Number 1 is the face (front) of the speaker.
- Number 2 will be the one that is hollowed out for the sand. Middle.
- Number 3 is the back.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/7.jpg)
Next up, the t-nuts, their location, how they're pre-drilled and what a t-nut looks like in general.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/8.jpg)
Here's the t-nut in place, before it's been drawn down into the wood.
In the background are the pieces of wood that will be the front plates that will house the amps and crossovers. This is the piece of wood that will attach to the speaker baffle directly, and hold the two together.
After that, I'll just shut up, stop talking and show a few pictures. They should speak for themselves.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/9.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/10.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/11.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/12.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/13.jpg)
This one needs a few words.....
The heads of the t-nuts are not flush, and in a situation where the t-nut must "disappear" totally, 100% on both sides, you have to give the layer behind it some room.
The easiest way to do that would be to use a paddle bit so the head of the t-nut has a "void" to go into.
That can be done on the piece of wood the t-nut goes into, or the piece of wood that will be meshing with the t-nut, whichever you prefer.
Personally, I like to leave as much material as possible for the t-nut to attach to. If you cut a bunch of wood out to accomidate the t-nut, you've weakend the material. And if you're using expensive material like this, that would be a shame.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/14.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/15.jpg)
Time to blow the saw dust away, get things cleaned up (yes, I actually do vacuum the floor of the workshop before I do this)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/16.jpg)
In the previous picture, I put layer #2 on top of layer #3, and traced around the openings.......(scroll back up a bit)
These open areas will NOT receive glue during the next step.......(now scroll down)
The zig-zag pencil marks will not get glue.
Also note, that I didn't get too close to the opening of the where the driver will mount to. No glue will (ever) be needed there.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/17.jpg)
Alright, now we're getting somewhere.
It's glue time, so my priority here was just that, not taking pictures.
Bam
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/18.jpg)
No man has ever died with too many clamps.
Done for the weekend. See you next Saturday. Buh Bye...... ;)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/19.jpg)
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We love our fav shill from St Louis! At least you're shilling something awesome! And your woodworking and photography are awesome too. (I am a BISL shill.)
This is good timing for me, I've been reading about big high efficiency coax OB speakers. :drool: But most of the coaxes are European or Asian made. Your Silver Iris drivers are all American. I like that, dirty nationalist that I am.
I'd love to hear these. Gotta check out hawthorne forum for a local owner.
Thanks Bob!!
Rich
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Bob:
I don't spend much time around here these days but your post about these speakers gathered my interest. Your work has a master craftsman appearance. I look forward to reading additional posts of your progress. I bet they will sound amazing.
Ken
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No wonder your wife keeps you around...your a handy guy Bob... :rofl:
Lookin' good so far.... 8)
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Nice job Bob. Just amazing that the front will hold up with all of the facing cut out except for that web.
Bryan
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Hey Bob. Good stuff, thanks for sharing. Big Fish good to see you here. Miss you guys.
Admire your skills Bob, really nice work.
charles
SMA
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Thank you guys for the complements! :thumb:
Rich, sounds like you should drop by and check out my fellow shills open baffle enthusiast buddy's.
I would think there's somebody in your neck of the woods.
Bryan, the webbing you see is the middle layer of 3/4" plywood. The voids, or cavities will be hidden inside and contain the sand. All that's seen in the last pic is the middle and rear layer.Before the facing goes on, the sand goes in.
Thanks again for the very kind words fellas!
Bob
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Done for the weekend, it's break time.
A friend and neighbor of mine that also builds speakers gave me a heads-up about a material that he's proven works better than sand to dampen and absorb the vibrations. Since he's running a business building spekaers, he asked that I not tell what the "secret sauce" happens to be. However gave me permission to show the build pictures with the promise that I plug his companys name "Vapor Audio".
Now I have permission to show pictures of the material. :lol:
One baffle layed down, cavities up, mounds of "special secret material" in them.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/20.jpg)
Ran a straight edge across to get everything layed flat. I walk around the baffle with a rubber mallet gently tapping the edges to help settle the material, otherwise after time the speakers vibrations would settle the material to the point where there would be open void.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/23.jpg)
Wood glue has been troweled on
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/24.jpg)
Clamp time
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/25.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/26.jpg)
After both baffles have been filled, and sealed up, I put one on top of the other and clamp them both over night. If I had enough clamps, I wouldn't have to do it this way.
The notebook paper in between is a "just in case" some glue gets between the two speakers. That would suck.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/27.jpg)
And final picture shows the profile after I ran the baffles across the table saw. I did the chamfer on the sides and top, front and back. Not the bottom.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/28.jpg)[/
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As usual, very fine workmanship. Thanks for the pics Bob!
That secret sand looks like gunpowder....
Nice touch on the chamfered edges. :thumb:
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As usual, very fine workmanship. Thanks for the pics Bob!
+1
That secret sand looks like gunpowder....
Wow, that would give it a hell of a transient response! :shock:
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I was going for a speaker with more "impact". They say Open Baffle doesn't have enough of that, so I thought the gunpowder was a good idea.
I'll let you know how it turns out.
Bob
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Adding mass is a great idea for O.B. (or installing struts to anchor them to the room structure, but that wouldn't be too domestically acceptable, eh?).
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Bob I hope they don't short. Kidding aside gunpowder ?? Who would have thunk.
I'm a fan of Bees Wax. Heat it up pour it in let it set. Is it more affective who really knows. Secret sauce is a better name so it must work better. :rofl: :rofl:
The concept of treating in between the baffle is a great idea. You may consider using visco elastic rings in between the driver and baffle for even more vibration control.
Looking good keep the photos coming.
charles
SMA
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Thanks guys! :thumb:
Charles, "No", it's not gunpowder, I can say that much. :lol:
But yea, loading the innards with a loose materials helps quite a bit.
I should have some more pictures next weekend when I get back in the shop.
Bob
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Whatever it is hope it works out for you. I gotta do this one day. DIY that is. It has to be so rewarding when done right.
charles
SMA
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Thank you Charles.
DIY is very rewarding indeed, and I highly recommend it.
Sitting in the listening chair with a glass of "red" in my hand the first time they play music is an experience beyond words.
Bob
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Thank you Charles.
DIY is very rewarding indeed, and I highly recommend it.
Sitting in the listening chair with a glass of "red" in my hand the first time they play music is an experience beyond words.
Bob
A glass of red wine and Taylor ham sandwich "Right"
Wink Wink know what I mean
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Thanks guys! :thumb:
Charles, "No", it's not gunpowder, I can say that much. :lol:
But yea, loading the innards with a loose materials helps quite a bit.
I should have some more pictures next weekend when I get back in the shop.
Bob
Looks like activated charcoal from a tropical fishtank
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Oh man.....Now you've got me thinking about some grilled Jersey Pork Roll, with toasted buns and a squirt of spicy Cilantro mustard.
Might just have to order me some of that.
Bob - :drool:
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The "Pelin Burl" veneer has arrived. Four near identical sheets.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/31.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/29.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/30.jpg)
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Very nice!`
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Very nice!
+1 :thumb:
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looks like boiling magma!
Very nice indeed
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I was thinking it looks like alien skin. :rofl:
I can't wait to see what it looks like with a finish on it.
Bob
p.s. Honestly, I've licked it to see what it looks like wet. I have a sickness. haha
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yes it does have an epidermal like quality, on a high magnification level, sort of like frozen boiling movement
very cool
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THAT!!! Is a beautiful veneer.
And I don't think licking it means your sick, just thorough.
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Nice stuff Bob!
My wife said it looks like baked bread. I like the boiling description, like the surface of the sun.
Did the client ask for it specifically, or your choice?
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Did the client ask for it specifically, or your choice?
He and I were on the phone together, surfing the website, picture by picture.
This is 100% his choice.
Before this build, I had never even heard of Burl. Yea, no kidding...
Bob
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Ok....about done for the day.
I've built the surrounds that will house the amps and crossovers. I then test fit them on the baffles to make sure everybody is going to end up lining up together with a nice snug fit.
In their clamps:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/32.jpg)
The rough surrounds without the clamps. They are about 15" x 17" x 6" tall.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/33.jpg)
The surround up next to it's new friend, the baffle:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/34.jpg)
Test fit of the amp in the surround:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/35.jpg)
And bolted it to the baffle:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/36.jpg)
Front view:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/38.jpg)
Rear view:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/39.jpg)
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Lookin good Bob!
Do you get any low frequency vibration at the top of the baffle? I put a rear brace on my last OB, and it really killed the vibration.
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2505.msg27587#msg27587
Does that amp power the whole speaker?
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Thank you Rich.
No, the vibrations are pretty well absorbed by the loose material inside, that does wonders for the vibrations. Although three layers of high quality plywood help too. haha
The 300 watt amp is just for one driver. That being the 15" "Augie" on the bottom which is the driver that covers the lower octaves.
Bob
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Not too much done this weekend.
But these are plywood braces. The original thought process was to have 1"x1.5" welded rectangular metal tubing (think race car chassis).
But when we couldn't find anybody to do it, I thought I'd make a quick plywood mockup version and see what it looks like. So this was mainly for Tony's benefit.
The amp boxes are primed, which is why they're white.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/42.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/40.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/41.jpg)
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Love the faux steel look, nice metallic paint color! Nice lap joints too!!! You da man!
Is it still warm there or do you work inside in heated shop? :mrgreen: I need a dust sucker BAD.
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Thanks Rich!
Working in the basement. Much nicer than the garage. haha
"Lap joints", you talking about in the brace?
That line you see isn't actually a seam, it's a pencil line. I cut that brace from a sheet of plywood and has no joints at all. The fellow thinks the brace may be "too much", and may opt for a single diagonal "arm". Those lines are where I'd cut off the left 'leg' and bottom 'leg'.
I did my best to make the plywood look like steel tubing, with the size, shape, rounded corners, and paint color. This was a quick mockup of a welded steel tube brace to help him visualize what it would look like.
If fact, the other side of the brace isn't even painted, and when he came over the paint was still wet when he grabbed it. You can see the finger marks of you look close. :rofl:
I need some dust control too. <cough> :?
Bob
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Lookin' good Bob. :thumb:
I think the brace/legs would look mo' betta if it was a triangle and it would be stronger than just the L shape.
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I saw those fingerprints but I wasn't gonna say anything ;) Blame it on the customer, that's classy Bob, real classy... :thumb:
I've been eyeing this dust box for a while, price is finally getting low enough to lure me.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=30068&filter=dust
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Thanks Lin! :D
I agree. But of course, the customer is always right....to a limit.
I'll build whatever he wants, as long as I feel it's not a detriment. Personally, the thing is over built as it is, so any additional support at all will do nothing but help.
Just between you and me, I just want to build. I'll be the hand for the guy that can't, ya know. If he wants to split hairs, then so be it.
Rich, yea.....I had to get him a towel with some solvent on it to clean his hands off. :rofl:
The guy was cool enough to bring a bottle of 45(ish) year old Cognac for us to sip on while we talked about the next phases of the build. I'm not a Cognac guy, but loved what he had ("Camus Xo Borderie"). After five or six hours of chatting about audio stuff, we had lowered the level in his bottle by a third. :shock:
After that, he didn't care about having paint on his fingers. :rofl:
Regarding the dust, I'd really like to plumb the shop properly. But of course, projects that improve projects always take a back burner to those projects that are projects themselves, if that makes sense.
Bob
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But of course, projects that improve projects always take a back burner to those projects that are projects themselves, if that makes sense.
Strangely, it does. :roll:
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The only Cognac I've ever had was cheap stuff we used to pour into a big pot of lentil soup in college. We had a big pot on the stove for days at a time, until it was gone. To keep it "sterile" we would just pour in more booze. It must have been cheap, I only paid $1/pot for all I could eat. Good thing it wasn't chicken soup.
I like the projects that improve projects too. What annoys me are the 'projects that enable projects,' like when I have to fix a tool before I can use it to fix something else with it. :duh
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Didn't get too much finished this weekend. Today was about all I had to get much done, and one of "those" audio guys came over. ;)
Of course we had to drink, listen, chat, etc..etc..etc...ha ha
So....
With regard to the bases.....
I got some sanding finished. Another coat of primer, some more sanding, a bit of spot putty, sanding, and another coat of primer and more sanding......
Also, there's been a few emails and PM's about the clearance between the driver magnet and the amp, so I thought I'd shoot a (fuzzy) picture.
That's about one honest inch between the magnet and the heat sinks of the amp.
That's about the best I can do with regard to progress for the weekend.
My son's 13th Birthday party is tomorrow, so no sawdust will be flying until next weekend.
Cheers.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/43.jpg)
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Here's a pic of the crossovers Darrel Hawthorne built.
Just in case anybody was curious, they tip the scales at 6 pounds, 10.9 ounes....each. :shock:
Bob
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/44.jpg)
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I think you're OK with the heatsink. It is close, but otherwise well ventilated. I think the voice coil resistance will cause more heat internally than a warm heatsink nearby. The magnet is ferrite, which resists high temps well, unlike the rare earths.
So how do you manage to keep those speaker posts tightened? Mine always come loose.
Happy BD to your son. My oldest is also 13, and he is wonderful.
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I was more worried about the magnet being as close to the XO than I was the heatsink. Might have to build a lead umbrella for it. :lol:
The best way to keep the posts tight would be to use banana connectors. haha
But seriously, I know what you mean, they do come "loose". Although I'd have to qualify that by saying they become "less tight", because I've never actually had one get loose enough to be audible to even allow the wire to be pulled out.
I have the same type on mine and notice that when I unscrew them, they're not very tight even though I barred down on them when I installed them.
Got the first sheet of veneer in the vacuum bag last night. Yipee!
Bob
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So how do you manage to keep those speaker posts tightened? Mine always come loose.
I have the same type on mine and notice that when I unscrew them, they're not very tight even though I barred down on them when I installed them.
Try a little dab of this (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/t_lkr_blue/overview/Loctite-Threadlocker-Blue-242.htm) on the binding-post threads
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Well....I suppose it's time to pull back the curtain, just a bit...... ;)
This is the back of the first baffle. Step one of many in the veneering process. The chamfers take quite a bit of time to do, a lot of steps involved for each angle.
We've done the back, and first 45 degree angles on the sides. The "ends" and "tops" did not receive glue.
On this particular baffle, I've done the trimming, rough sanding, and quick wipe down to remove the dust and shine things up a bit.
This weekend (and probably next) will consist of veneering each and every individual angle, one at a time, with trimming and sanding in between.
So ..... here are my teaser photos, until (most likely) next weekend.
I gave the Pelin Burl a quick, moist wipe down for the pictures.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/46.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/45.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/47.jpg)
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Nice! :drool:
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The best way to keep the posts tight would be to use banana connectors. haha
Thanks, I never thought of that :duh
The looseness is not from the nuts backing off, it's from the softness of the copper wire, especially stranded. It isn't stiff enough to resist the squeezing twss so it flows away. Tinning doesn't help cuz it's soft too. Spades need to resist the squeezing so they are either alloy or very thin copper like JHLabs, harder to squeeze cuz there's less material to flow, I think...
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The best way to keep the posts tight would be to use banana connectors. haha
Thanks, I never thought of that :duh
Or even better the Monster Cable X-Terminators, which are banana like connectors that have a small threaded rod that goes down the center and expands the blades and locks them on place for a more solid fit that does not loosen up over time.
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Or even better the Monster Cable X-Terminators, which are banana like connectors that have a small threaded rod that goes down the center and expands the blades and locks them on place for a more solid fit that does not loosen up over time.
WBT bananas do that too, works great! Soldering is the best thing for inside the box, but that deflowers the driver for resale value. But I guess organ music at 95dB deflowers them pretty well too. Used is used.
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Thanks for the complement tmazz! :thumb:
I know what you mean about the stranded wires "smashing" and thereby loosening the grip. I use 12guage Romex for my subs sometimes. The solid wire makes it damn hard to unscrew very same fitting that wouldn't hold stranded wire. There has been a couple times I had to use pliers to unscrew the connector because it "bit" too well. :x
How the hell that happens is beyond me. :duh
Bob
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Just for grins, I checked how tight my binding posts were. It's been many months since I've touched them, maybe as long as over a year ago. So suffice it to say they've had a good long while to work themselves loose.
Much to my surprise, I got a full 360 degree turn out of all four of them. :shock:
No improvement in SQ after tightening them though.
I think some bananas are in my future. :lol:
Bob
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtD4mn9CeH4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtD4mn9CeH4)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtD4mn9CeH4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtD4mn9CeH4)
Just the mere fact that it has 3,084 likes, proves society is doomed.
Only 187 sane people voted.
Just....wow.
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Got a bit more accomplished this weekend and thought I post a few more pictures.
First up....
The thin sheets of veneer (that are almost five feet long and 22" wide) need to be soaked with a wood softening chemical and pressed. These have been pressed for several days ....granted, longer than needed, but that will do nothing but make our lives easier later down the road. It's hard to press something that large, but the sheets are wrapped in wax paper (so the moisture doesn't get sucked out), then every piece of large plywood I have is placed on top, then all the heavy boxes of speaker parts are placed on them, and finally, a few 2"x4"'s and clamps to squeeze them into submission.
You can see a bit of the veneer peeking out, in the lower left of the photo.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/49.jpg)
I don't have any photo's of the actual veneering process (yet....since it's being done at another fellows house), but after the veneer/vacuum press, here's what comes out.
The darker areas are where I've soaked the driver cutouts so I can run a razor blade through it without as much 'chipping' of the wood.
The baffles are three layers of plywood thick. It is necessary to place the driver cutouts back in the holes so the vacuum press doesn't shatter the veneer.
Note to self: Next time, veneer first, then do the router work. Ugh...
That's about enough typing for tonight, the rest of the pictures should speak for themselves.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/48.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/51.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/52.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/53.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/54.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/50.jpg)
Tony requested the side braces be taller, and with a radius inside the 'crotch' area.
Here's the second prototype, on the left. He didn't care much for the first generation on the right.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/55.jpg)
That's enough for this weekend..... "Bob out"..... :D
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Here's a couple rare, mid-week, photo's.
First picture is doing double duty. I had to locate the t-nuts and clean out the residual glue from the veneering process (note the bolts).
And second...in order to ensure a perfect 90 degree sanding surface of the thin side bevel for the next layer of veneer, I made a (as perfect as I can) sanding block.
I lined the bottom horizontal surface of the block with slick packing tape to act as a "sled" to ease the sliding across the wood work surface.
Next, I attached sandpaper to the vertical face. Instead of regular sand paper that wears out quickly, I used the belt from a belt sander.
It lasts much longer, and requires an occasional quick blast of air to clean and unclog the abrasive surface.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/56.jpg)
And just to tease Tony, a shot of the back with the base attached.
I didn't notice until just now, the camera focused on the background instead of the speaker.
Sorry about that.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/57.jpg)
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Wow, it's been a month....Well, sanding isn't much fun, very glamorous, nor is it worth taking pictures of. But to prove I've actually been doing something, here's what they look like after final sand, and after one coat of Linseed Oil.
I'll admit to touching them more than I should, if you catch my drift. ;)
Bob
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/58.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/59.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/60.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/62.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/61.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/63.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/64.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/65.jpg)
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Gorgeous! The grain matching from facet to facet is incredible. I was trying to figure out how you did it with one piece, then I reread previous post above about one facet at a time. Incredible! Do you have a system to keep track of where the cuttings are supposed to go?
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Nice job Bob! Those look great. Guess I know how I'm going to be tapping for my summer project (if you're interested....)
Bryan
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Thanks guys! :thumb:
Rich, no real system, just careful placement and forethought. Nice and slow. haha
Bryan, sure buddy. Whatcha got in mind?
Bob
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Nothing ground breaking, as layering coats and sanding in between isn't much to look at from one step to the next, but I have made progress on the bases.
So here's a few pictures of the bases and the baffles. The baffles in the pictures are sanded and awaiting their next layer, so if they're dull and splotchy, that's why.
I've been compartmentalizing the cavities on the bases. Each cavity has it own purpose. The large one holds the amp and will be 'backfilled' with sand. The next largest will support the crossover and willl also be filled with sand. The next is 100% sand. The two smallest will be "open" and void. There needs to be access to the bolts that attach the baffle to the base. Obviously, we don't want sand leaking from one cavity to another, much less on Tony's carpet, hence the massive amounts of glue on the seams. Not only is each piece of wood glued and nailed, but then glued again with the nasty looking stuff you see here. This is the inside of the bottom and if all goes well, will never see the light of day after final assembly.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/66.jpg)
Here is the "cap" for the base. This will hold the sand in. I'll be using single sided foam tape (Speaker tape) as a gasket to help hold all the sand where it needs to be. The 2.5" holes are so I can stick a ratchet in there to tighten the bolts.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/67.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/68.jpg)
The "base for the base". This is where the 2" spike will attach to the t-nuts and support the entire structure.
At this point, everything you see that's white, or plywood will be painted black when all is said and done.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/69.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/70.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/71.jpg)
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Looking great Bob. Those will be around in 1000 years!
What is that silver and black can next to the amp? A coil?
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Thanks Rich. :thumb:
That can is the inductor in the crossover network. A solid roll of copper foil with a black painted oak "cap" on top.
Bob
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Update....
The bases tip the scales at 63 pounds each. For perspective, my 8 year old daughter is 52 pounds. I do not enjoy carrying these around the shop.
When I'm older, I think I'll build smaller speakers. I dread moving these when they're finished!!
Here the baffle are swinging from my basement ceiling (note the wires), drying from (yet another) coat of pretty juice.
In the background the painted bases sit in pieces on the workbench waiting to be filled with sand, amps and crossovers.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/72.jpg)
Here's one base filled and leveled with sand, and the other almost filled:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/73.jpg)
Once filled with sand, I clean the base where the gasket will go, and place it on the mating surface:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/74.jpg)
Then I capped the bases, and place them on the platform. The platform has the 2" brass spikes:
All that remains is to wrap up the pretty stuff on the baffles, mount the drivers, mate the baffles to the bases and wire them up!
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/76.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/75.jpg)
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You could be a professional speaker builder, if you wanted to. Except for all the hard work, and low pay. :rofl:
Those really look nice Bob. Someone's gonna be very proud to have those in their house. Is your pretty juice satin lacquer, or PU?
A hand truck with big pneumatic tires makes heavy speakers easier. But pulling them up stairs still needs a helping hand. That's where your daughter will come in handy, soon enough! I have a 13 yo, he helped me haul speakers up the stairs just tonite!
Can you post a link to the plate amp you are using? It looks nice. I'm thinking about that for the woofers on my next project. Thanks!
Rich
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Hey Rich,
Thanks for the complements! :thumb:
I do have a hard cart with pneumatic tires, but fortunately neither myself or the recipient has stairs to contend with. A rough estimate would put these at about 140 pound each when assembled.
The plate amp is a 300 watt Keiga KG-5230.
At the risk of being shill(ish), I hesitate to post a link where they were purchased from. Please let me know on that one Rich or Carl.
The goody juice is just plain ol varnish. Layers and layers and layers of varnish, with lots of sanding in between. :roll:
Bob
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This is going to be one of those "I knew him when he was working out of his garage" threads.... :thumb:
Nice job as always Bob.
Bryan
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Thanks Bob. I've seen that in Madisound catalog, I think.
http://www.keiga.com.tw/products_kg5230.html (http://www.keiga.com.tw/products_kg5230.html)
better description, and thanks for the PM..
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/catalogs/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=2 (http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/catalogs/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=2)
140#, yeah that's chubby, but plenty of non-sand-filled speakers weigh even more.
Did you ever try Flood Penetrol for varnishing? Wipe on a very thin layer between coats. No more sanding, no more brush marks, no more peeling.
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Bryan, thank you Sir for the flattery! :thumb:
Rich, yup....that's the unit.
Thanks for the heads up on the Flood Penetrol. Anything that eliminates steps gets my attention, that's for sure. How does it smell?
Bob
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How does it smell?
(twss)
It's been a long time, but iirc, the smell is not too strong. Not as strong as the varnish, which, of course, smells wonderful! ;)
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How does it smell?
(twss)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: (I had to Google that).
Thanks for the info Rich.
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(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/77.jpg)
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Pretty awesome :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Thank you Sir! :thumb:
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Purty. I just don't have that kind of drive to DIY anymore. Kudo's to you Bobby-boy.
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How come Bob?
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not necessarily in any order ...
- old
- no time
- lack of motivation
- old and tired
- other interests that fill my available time
- happy with my system as it is (mostly)
- old and tired and bitter and no time because I have to spend 12 hours a day at work or commuting
(things may change in retirement, whenever that may be - boy I sound curmudgeony, maybe a new project is what I really need)
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Well Bob, lemme tell ya what......
As a self-proclaimed old(ish), tired, cynical, curmudgeony, worn-out, busy, hater of everything and everybody, unmotivated, bitter, shit-head of a human being.....<deep inhale>..... the time I spend in the basement workshop building things is the most therapeutic thing I've ever done.
Period.
On top of that... I installed a nice little sound system in there which has access to not only my entire music library, but Pandora as well, to help keep my ears happy.
Maybe we could get you one of those desk-top lathes. Then you could make ("turn") small things like amp knobs, pens, screwdriver handles and keychains.
Just an idea buddy. :thumb:
Bob
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Oooh, I know people who make pens like this. Very nice. I have one with a G-clef for a clip. Again, maybe in retirement. I always liked the smell of a woodshop and spent lots of time in one over the summer months as a kid rather than play softball, dodgeball, basketball, etc.
(http://www.mckinneypens.com/images/WoodPage/btjrgoldmapleo.jpg)
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Yea, there you go.
For more inspiration, check out the screwdrivers >HERE< (http://woodworkerszone.com/igits/showthread.php?t=9844).
Those are nice.
Bob
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We have ignition in speakerland. 8-)
Here's the new speakers next to my old (plain) speakers.........
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/78.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/79.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/80.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/81.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/82.jpg)
Here's a few shots of a David Gilmour Bluray concert. No particular reason I took this many pictures, I guess "just because I can".....I suppose. haha
But the speakers look and sound pretty good playing Mr. Gilmour, if I do say so myself.
I'll listen to them until next weekend, run them through their paces to make sure there are no squeeks, rattles, or buzzes.
Everything from classical, to Diana Krall, to Harry Connick Jr., to Mettalica, to Skrillex will be played.
Then I deliver them.....<sad face>
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/1.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/2.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/3.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/4.jpg)
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/5.jpg)
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Amazing job Bob. If they sound half as good as the look the new owner is in for quite a treat! :thumb:
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Thank you :thumb:
He came by yesterday afternoon, and is pretty pleased.
I'm surprised that he's letting me keep them for another week. That took some talkin' on my part. :rofl:
Bob
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Man, putting in all that work, making them look and sound so nice, then giving them up. I hope you made a nice profit for yourself, otherwise I would be tempted to keep them.
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Beautiful work there Bob! Congratulations on a successful project, and a happy client. Thanks for sharing with us on AudioNervosa!!
What's next?!?!?!
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Hey Bob great looking speakers. You have a skillfull hand dear Sir.
Especially like the wood. Oh My !!!
charles
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Thank you Bob. :D
"Nice' profit....no, not really. It probably worked out to about eighty five cents an hour. :duh
I do it because I enjoy "the build". A few dollars on the side makes it feel like I'm getting paid for my time, and helps me afford bigger/better tools to build bigger/better projects.
With the money from this one, I bought my own 5'x10' vacuum bagger rig so I can do this lunacy again. :lol:
Rich, thank you Sir!
Not sure what I "want" to build next. I really need to catch up on some of those 'honey-dos'. :duh
I've got an idea for a high efficiency near infinite baffle, coaxial, omni-directional rear surround I'd like to try......
Charles, Thank you for the complement!
At first, I hated the wood. But the more I worked with it, the more I like it. I'll be using it again in the future.
Bob
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The speakers have been delivered. Shipping (in my truck) was uneventful, which was one of my worries. Picking them up to load and unload was not much fun at all though.
Here's a few shots of Tony's room.
In the first pic, you can see the speakers they're replacing (with the Indy 500 in the background)
I think it's neat to see the light shine through the back of the driver:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/83.jpg)
Here's Tony wiring them up. Of course I had my camera in hand, so a shot of Tony's ass seemed like something that needed to be done. ha ha
Otherwise known as....."A view of the typical audiophile in his natural environment":
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/85.jpg)
And the last picture. The view Tony has been wanting to see for a VERY long time now. And with that, we'll put and end to the pictures and this project.
Thanks for following along and for all the kind comments:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Stuff%20I%20built%20for%20other%20people/Tonys%20Sterling%20Duets/88.jpg)
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Well done Bob !!! :thumb: :beer:
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Thanks Chris!
One of these days, I'll have the honor of a photograph of you leaning on one of MY speakers. 8)
Bob
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They certainly do look sweet. Great job Bob!!!!
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Thank you very much T! :thumb:
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Wow Bob you are adventurous!! Dipoles?!
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Thank you very much for the complement Jim!
Bob
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Very high drool factor :drool: Excellent job.
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Thank you for the wonderful complement Bill! :thumb:
Bob