ICE Based Amps

[shadowlight]

I am in the market for a new amp and looking at some of the ICE amps (Red Dragon) and would like to hear collective thoughts on the ICE sound from the group.  Trying to keep the cost under 800 or so.  They will be used to drive av123/GR-Research LS6 line source speakers.  The other option that I am think about is getting another diy classd module and running them in bridge mode.  Currently, I am running classdaudio's cda254L kit - classdaudio.com/index.php/products/class-d-audio-kits/250w-x2-500w-x1-amp-large-power-supply-transformer.html as amp.  I like the sound from the classd so adding another module will not be a problem.  Will have to get another case but would be a lot cheaper.

Any tube amp suggestion in the price range are also welcome.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I use Response Audio's Bella LP a 12au7 based pre.

TIA
Deepak

[evan1]

Class D

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1298654745&/ps-audio-HCA-2-stereophile-cla

[topround]

Are not the ls6's efficient?
If so why bother with all the brute force?

A nice dynaco st 70 with an aftermarket input board of choice should be very nice.
Those speakers throw a huge sound, give them the delicate power they deserve, something with texture, tone and dimensionality.

People always get a hard on for speakers, but give a good speaker a good source and good amplification and you will be suprised how far your speakers can go.

Sorry but I believe most people(myself included) have not truly realized thye full potential of what their speakers can do.

The best speakers can not reproduce what they are not fed.

[shadowlight]

Mike,

You are correct the speakers are efficient at 91/92db.  Would love to try tube amp but I have two concerns with them:

1) Biasing the tubes, not sure how often and how difficult it is
2) The system is dual purpose.  My kids use the basement for playing wii/ps3/watch movies when I am not around.  Would be concerned with potential burn and complication in turning the amp on and off.  They are good about turning things on and off in the right order.

I saw a Rouge Tempest II and 88 on agon and keeping an eye on them but they are definitely out of the budget right now.

[richidoo]

Great post Mike!

Deepak, tube maintenance is easy once you learn how. Choose an amp with the adjusting controls exposed to the exterior of the amp for easy adjustment and measurement. AN has new sponsors who sell tube amps, maybe they can chime in about the ease of bias adjustment.

Audio Research amps have adjustments buried away, but if you stick to factory tested and matched replacement tubes, they age well and stay well biased throughout their life. AR amps also hold their resale value very well.

If you use reliable brands of tubes like Shuguang, New Sensor, SED then bias should remain stable. Other brands of power tubes (Eastern European) may be less stable bias, IME.

Consider the cost of tubes before putting tubes in a family system. Your audiophile senses will want to use Black Treasure or other expensive and great sounding tubes. But they are just too expensive to piss away on vid games or TV that's on all day, but they make glorious music. On 10 hours a day means replace them every 8-10 months. 8 black treasure KT88s will give you 100+wpc and cost $700/set. Compare to "normal" $25 - $40 tubes from New Sensor or SED. My 300Bs are $1100/set. Something to think about.

I'm still keeping an eye out the the SS amp that does what a tube amp does (tone, space, life.) Or for that matter, a tube amp that does what a SS amp does (silent background, low distortion, low impedance, relatively low cost compared to tubes.)

[shadowlight]

Thanks Rich.  I went looking at the price for KT88/6650/KT90 tubes and that gave me a sticker shock.  I am going to have to bug Hugh about the Melody amps.  Will just have to figure out a way how to make tubes and dual purpose rooms work, unless I get rid of the LS6 and get a dedicated 2-channel room in a smaller room.

[etcarroll]

Why not run a partition down the middle of the basement, half for you, half for the girls?

[mfsoa]

Hi Deepak,
My buddy Dewesh has my old Cherry Jr. It's not hooked up yet so if you want to borrow it let me know and I'll ask.  Best w/ balanced IME, but adapters are fine too.
Ideal for a set and forget installation, with no heat.

-Mike

[shadowlight]

Why not run a partition down the middle of the basement, half for you, half for the girls?

That is what I am planning to do which basically leaves me with a 14' x 14' area right under the breakfast nook which might be way to small for the ls6.  I am going to give that a try once it is finished.  If that does not work out, the 6's will have to go for smaller speakers.

[shadowlight]

Hi Deepak,
My buddy Dewesh has my old Cherry Jr. It's not hooked up yet so if you want to borrow it let me know and I'll ask.  Best w/ balanced IME, but adapters are fine too.
Ideal for a set and forget installation, with no heat.

-Mike

Hey Mike,

I have dropped a pm to Tommy to see if he has anything in the range.  Waiting to hear back from him.

[richidoo]

The input stage on stock ICE amp isn't ideal. A few brands using ICE modules like Wyred4Sound and Bel Canto have custom designed input stages to improve on the stock modules' inputs. I've only heard Red Dragon and Bel Canto at shows, neither did much for me. I liked the new 2nd gen Channel Island (Hypex based) amps better. I think the D500 was playing on GR line array too, sounded nice.

I'm still looking forward to hearing the DAC amp. You should take Mike up on his offer to try it. It's supposed to be a great amp.

Our sponsor, Black Sand Audio, is one of the biggest W4S dealers. John can give you advice on W4S and some other class D amps.

[rollo]

  Deepak the Girls use of the stereo is the issue. Not safety but tube wear. The prima luna line is quite safe and has auto bias.
  The Cherries are quite good. Tubes are great but the expense must be considered. Every 5 years or so new tubes. Saying that the Nightshade line is quite attractive with the use of stock tubes and not many.
   Decisions decisions. If you are keen on the WS4 or Cherry or ant SS device a tubed preamp should be in the mix IMO. If you try an SET amp then a SS preamp is recommended. Neutral tubed preamps are hard to find and expensive when found say a CAT Ultimate or Audio research for example. An SET will give you all the tube magic you can want and the SS Pre will deliver an uncolored signal to the lush Amp, oh my.
   Now that wall down the middle will leave you with a square. Not good for audio. If you can somehow make a rectangular room it will be easier to treat acoustically. How high is the clg ? 



charles

[shadowlight]

Charles,

The ceiling will be around 7ft and I might be able to get a rectangle wall if I add 18" pantry with folding doors.  I have a 12au7 based preamp so I am covered from that perspective.  I am in the process of getting quotes from contractor's to finish the basement and will try both scenarios and see which one works.

[shadowlight]

The input stage on stock ICE amp isn't ideal. A few brands using ICE modules like Wyred4Sound and Bel Canto have custom designed input stages to improve on the stock modules' inputs. I've only heard Red Dragon and Bel Canto at shows, neither did much for me. I liked the new 2nd gen Channel Island (Hypex based) amps better. I think the D500 was playing on GR line array too, sounded nice.

I'm still looking forward to hearing the DAC amp. You should take Mike up on his offer to try it. It's supposed to be a great amp.

Our sponsor, Black Sand Audio, is one of the biggest W4S dealers. John can give you advice on W4S and some other class D amps.

Thanks Rich.  Will reach out to John for his input also.

[mfsoa]

Tube pre before Class D...