Author Topic: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?  (Read 7223 times)

Offline mca

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« on: August 21, 2008, 06:15:09 PM »
A. Slimdevices Duet/Bolder power supply/Bolder digital mod/Red Wine Isabellina DAC

or

B. Modwright Transporter
Modwright Transporter, Ayon Spirit II Integrated, Daedalus Ulysses speakers, Running Springs Haley conditioner, Reality cables, Black Sand Violet PC's.

Offline Carlman

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2008, 07:22:16 PM »
C. Audio PC and nice DAC.  (but that's me, personally)

I haven't heard either but I'd probably pick the Transporter... If nothing else, for resale value.

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Bigfish8

  • Guest
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2008, 07:47:15 PM »
I previously used a Bolder Analog Modded S3 and Bolder Modded Elpac in my main rig.  It now serves as the music source for a receiver that drives my outdoor speakers.  I currently use a ModWright Transporter in my main rig. 

I never heard a totally modded-out Bolder S3 with the ultimate nivarna power supply.  Zybar over on AN had one and replaced it with the ModWright Transporter.  He claimed that the sound produced from both units was very close in quality but the Transporter offered him more connection options. 

To me the ModWright Transporter offers the following advantages:

1.  Single Box Solution as no external power supply or dac required
2.  Check-out the ModWright Transporter Feedback on AC - There are a lot of owners very happy with the sound the unit produces.
3.  It is a tube rollers dream.  With tube changes you can find a tube combination that is best for your system and music tastes.
4.  The ModWright Transporter looks cool like a piece of high-end audio gear should look!

Negative:

You have to spend $3800.00 for the ModWright Transporter.  IF you go the Duet route you can add mods as you have the money rather than dump $3800.00 at one time.


I wrote the above response last night.  Actually, the right choice is the one that will make you feel the most satisfied.  Regardless of the choice there will always be something new coming along in a few months to get the Nervosa Juices flowing again. :rofl:



Good Luck!

Ken
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 06:23:29 AM by Bigfish8 »

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2008, 07:51:26 PM »
I'm not big on mods, I prefer whole concept approach - one mind makes a masterpiece. But that doesn't mean they don't sound awesome. Should be some words on AN about Bigfish8's Modporter after our G2G on 8/30. I think Ken has found some nice tubes for his too.

I'm thinking Sonos plus that new Bryston BDA-1 should make a great combo.
Sounds like a fun decision to make, Mike. :D
Rich

miklorsmith

  • Guest
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2008, 08:02:52 AM »
Don't you have Wayne's top-dog SB3 already?  The Duet won't be any better and you could buy just the Duet remote for what, $200.  If you have a laptop, use that as the remote, that's what I'm doing and it works great.

Even with the Transporter you're going to need the laptop or some other kick-ass remote. 

My dream project is this:  I bought an SB a while back and sent it to Vinnie to get a "Lessloss" clock-link mod.  The Lessloss DAC has a clock-master mode that completely overrides the transport clock, assuming the transport has this function.  Some of the CEC players/transports do.  Lessloss sold me their modded Rega Planet which can do this.  This combination has handily bested some very nice stuff that has come through my doors in the last year.

Still on this rig, a copied black CD sounds better than the original.  I presume, as do others, that the optical interface is one limitation of real-time redbook playback.  One of the beauties of the Squeezebox implementation is it takes none of the clock information from the computer itself, rather it generates its own clock signal at the player itself.  Limitation?  The clock can't be that great and neither is the DAC.  If we could take the Lessloss clock-substitution scheme along with it's killer DAC performance we might have the best of all worlds.

I would have had this done some time ago except that our friend Vinnie has been a wee bit busy this last year.  Vinnie and Liudas at Lessloss agree this would be a relatively simple mod.  I would have sent the box elsewhere to save *a lot of* time but I already have two of Vinnie's SBs along with their custom power supplies and I don't want to try to reinvent the wheel with someone else.  Maybe now that Vinnie has all his new products on the ground he'll have time to work on this.

Like Rich, I'm not completely sold on mods generally.  Substituting boutique parts in a given circuit might have significant results, or not.  I certainly don't believe such swapping guarantees anything.  However, in Dan's transporter he has completely rebuilt the output stage.  His tube mods have a near-universal reputation for excellence and where the Transporter has been criticized it has been for leanness and lack of body - just the sort of place where a well-done tube output stage would be welcome.  I've owned several pieces by Dan, both mods and original production and none of them had the classic, slow tube sound, all were nimble and dynamic.

Mike - what are you using for speakers now?  I can't keep track.   :D

Black Sand Cable

  • Guest
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2008, 08:29:54 AM »
C. Audio PC and nice DAC.  (but that's me, personally)

I haven't heard either but I'd probably pick the Transporter... If nothing else, for resale value.

-C

I'm with Carl. A stock Duet or SB3 or even a PC based system and a good DAC will equal what you are asking about for a lot less money.

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2008, 08:44:09 AM »
The Bryston DAC (iirc) buffers, resamples the data from a cheap network transport with a precision  onboard clock. The resulting stream to DAC is pristine, virtually jitter free. Discreet output stage is supoosed to sound decent, but I've not read a report from known golden ears. Time will tell.

In the pro audio world external digital clocks (called word clocks) precisely meter the timing of digital words (chunks of data streaming at the sampling speed which describe the exact voltage of the output signal.) They are extremely important and have been used in big buck recordings and movie editing since the beginning of digital audio. Apogee has been making the Big Ben word clock forever.

Jitter is an interesting topic.  Here are some articles for toilet time.
http://forums.avguide.com/viewtopic.php?p=9441&sid=d63fc12a4dec9842ff89f09673ada7b3
http://www.stereophile.com/features/368/
http://www.stereophile.com/reference/193jitter/
http://www.audiocraftersguild.com/AandE/npt.on.jitter2.htm

miklorsmith

  • Guest
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2008, 09:05:40 AM »
Lessloss operates their clock as a "superclock".  I believe the word clock operates based on the sampling frequency, i.e. 44.1 khz where the superclock runs in the megahertz range.  Lessloss claims superclock is better for whatever that's worth.

I don't think reclocking in general is the same thing as what Lessloss is doing.  They are synchronizing using one master source.  In a normal s/pdif cable the clock and data are passing in opposite directions in a single cable.  As much as manufacturers claim their products neatly strip timing information from the data stream, this process does not seem nearly as clean to me as what LL is doing - all usual disclaimers applying, of course.

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2008, 11:43:00 AM »
As I understand it,  SPDIF carries no separate clock signal, just the data stream, so it is inherently jitter prone. An external clock controlling the transport and the DAC will eliminate jitter if the wiring, connectors and such is up to snuff.  The better the precision of the clock, the less jitter. Obvious Lessloss is going for the gold.

miklorsmith

  • Guest
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2008, 11:54:20 AM »
I believe s/pdif carries data and tries to correlate the clocks between the transport and DAC.  They are never exactly the same.  The LL setup has two separate cables, data cable from transport to DAC and clock cable from DAC to transport.  An external clock has to deal with both clock and data signals, strip the clock to insert its own.  The LL solution basically circumvents the separate signals in the first place.  DCS, Esoteric, and others pursue quite similar strategies though they are of course much more expensive.

Offline mca

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2008, 09:38:07 AM »
That Bryston DAC looks pretty damn nice!
Modwright Transporter, Ayon Spirit II Integrated, Daedalus Ulysses speakers, Running Springs Haley conditioner, Reality cables, Black Sand Violet PC's.

bacobits

  • Guest
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2008, 09:26:03 AM »
I like the looks of that Bryston too.

D

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6957
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2008, 08:45:44 AM »
Boys, boys just make it simple. A Mac Book laptop and the DAC of your choice. Period end of story


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2008, 09:38:23 AM »
Hi rollo! Nice to see you
How do you use the macbook? On the couch or leave it at the stereo? I like to control transport from the couch. Airport network client?

Offline Bill O'Connell

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 360
    • http://www.morningstaraudio.com
Re: If you had $3800 which one would you buy?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2008, 04:39:38 PM »
Rollo,

 A buddy of mine swears by the Macbook laptop using the firewire into a Apogee Dac. He claims the bandwidth of the firewire far exceeds all others. I think he said firewire was invented by Apple also. He has a boatload of DAC's laying around and claims in his system it excells above all others. Take it for what its worth.
Bill O'Connell,
Retired /Morningstar Audio/Eastern Electric distributor for North America
847-255-1150
"If your playing more than 3 chords your just showing off"  John Lee Hooker