AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Analog Devices => Topic started by: richidoo on May 04, 2011, 09:20:19 AM
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A new thread for discussing cleaning methods.
See previous record cleaning threads:
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2829.0
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=1983.0
I'll start by asking questions...
I have no record cleaning equipment at all. I have a couple hundred records that have never been cleaned except for some discwasher liquid drops 25 years ago. A few years ago I tried washing some in the sink with dishsoap and a sponge, with soft well water rinse and towel dry. The pops and ticks that were there before washing were not affected, but slightly quieter hiss and looked better. With better methods is it really possible to remove these ticks and pops, or at least the ones caused by contamination after the stamper? I have read that a vacuum machine seems to do the best job. But why? What does it do that distilled water rinse doesn't?
For me, vinyl is like a glass of wine, not daily milk. I enjoy it occasionally and not yet ready to invest $1000 in cleaning equipment. Like any sane person, I love the sound of vinyl, and would consider doing more with it if I had faith that I could clean up used records to remove 90% or more of the pops. Is it possible?
Is there a manual cleaning brush that can be used with LP cleaning fluid to effectively scrub out the dirt then rinse with distilled water and air dry? I mean without a vacuum. I don't need perfect, I just need reasonably clean enough to listen to it. What about orthobiz's or MoFi's enzyme cleaners? Are they better than the usual alcohol and detergent recipes?
Someone needs to make an LP pressure washer. Hmmmm :idea:
Thanks guys!!
Rich
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I've found that the Disk Doctor fluid and brushes are simple and effective, short of getting a vacuum cleaning machine. I bought these many years ago, cleaned hundreds of records and still have about 1/2 a bottle of concentrated fluid left. So it goes far for the cost and does a good job.
A clean record really makes all the difference.
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Beyond all logic I've found that using a vacuum cleaning machine is SO much better than any hand cleaning method. It's often HUGELY important to the final sonic product.
I bought my Nitty Gritty Model 1, beaten but useable, for $150 on ebay a few years ago. They're $365 new.
However, the motor inside is loud and KAB has a better answer. They buy cut-down Nitty Gritty 1's from the manufacturer...without a motor inside...this saves the a lot and they sell their EV-1 for $159 new.
You just need to add your own vacuum cleaner (canisters best as they tend to have better suction...but, some uprights like Dyson have decent tool suction) to provide the suction. As your own vacuum is several feet from you and many canister vacs have better motor damping than the Nitty Gritty Model 1 does...it often makes for a quieter experience overall with the same net results -scrupulously clean records.
http://kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/ (look under Record Cleaners on the top tabs)
Truly, a good deal at $159. Rich - your vinyl listening time would probably vault skyward if you had pristine clean records via RCM. It truly defies most logic as to how important they are to the vinyl experience :thumb:
Ciao, John
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Thanks Bob and John. I believe what you are saying about enjoying listening John. I find the pops and tick and background noise to be the most objectionable part of vinyl, besides the price of gear of course. :D The occasional LP that I own which is relatively clean and a good recording and pressing is a lot of fun to listen to. The rest I just suffer the noise because I don't have these old records on CD. I'm also confused why brand new records have pops right out of the sleeve, but record plants are not clean-rooms. While my vinyl rig is not yet as revealing or transparent as my digital, I enjoy the dense and rich sound at the expense of some ultimate detail of digital. But the pops just ruin it. I can't concentrate deeply with the noise always pulling me back.
Last summer I bought a Miele canister. It is very quiet and has strong suction (TWHS.) So the EV-1 cleaner sounds like a good deal for me. I didn't know about that, thanks.
So is a nitty gritty cleaner just as effective as a more expensive model? Is the suction power and the cleaning fluid the two most important variables for cleaning ability? Or do these automated models do a better job, or just convenience? I guess if it is easy you will do it more.
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Hi Rich
I've added steaming cleaning to my list of vinyl chores. I have the identical steam unit as pictured in the video.
I also use a RCM as part of the process and really enjoy cleaning my LPs. All part of my vinyl playback experience
A DIY record cleaning setup is not all that hard to do........Bill
http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/S&VVC/
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Rich, I think you hit the nail right on the head when you said "...is it really possible to remove these ticks and pops, or at least the ones caused by contamination..." There are two sources of clicks and pops on a record those caused by a foreign body sitting on top of the grooves and those cause by an imperfection in the grooves themselves (such as a scratch). Certainly if the pop is caused by something sitting on top of the record, cleaning the debris off will get rid of the noise. However; if the noise is being cause by any kind of surface defect, whether caused by the pressing process or some other external force, no amount of cleaning is going to get rid of that click.
That said I have to agree with Bob, there is really nothing like a clean record. While it may not get rid of all the clicks and pops, a good cleaning will lower the overall noise floor and give you a blacker background. I really don't know sonically what the difference between a vacuum based cleaner and one of the newer hand type cleaners. I heard what the VPI cleaners could do 20 years and was sold on the spot. I have been using it ever since and swear by the results. Some of the newer hand systems may come closer than the ones that were around 20 years ago, but I have never really tried them because, well, I already have the 16.5.
On a theoretical basis a vacuum system will work better for two reasons. First it will allow you to use cleaner formulas that may do a better job cleaning but would damage the record if left on for an extended period of time (the vacuum will do a better job of removing all residue of the cleaner as compared to soaking it up with some kine of rag or pad.) and secondly the vacuum will life any dirt out of the grooves instead of pushing it back down like a pad might do when it is drying a record. While all of this sounds good on paper I can't say that I have ever done any first hand A/B testing between the 16.5 and any of the currently available hand cleaning systems.
The 16.5 is bulky, noisy and not cheap, but it does a great job and if you want mine you are going to have to pry it from my cold, dead hands. :thumb:
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Hi Rich
I've added steaming cleaning to my list of vinyl chores. I have the identical steam unit as pictured in the video.
I also use a RCM as part of the process and really enjoy cleaning my LPs. All part of my vinyl playback experience
A DIY record cleaning setup is not all that hard to do........Bill
http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/S&VVC/
Bill,
I have always been intrigued by the idea of steam cleaning, but I am too much of a chicken to subject any of my records to that kind of heat. (http://images.paraorkut.com/img/emoticons/images/c/chicken_dance-176.gif)
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Hi Rich
I've added steaming cleaning to my list of vinyl chores. I have the identical steam unit as pictured in the video.
I also use a RCM as part of the process and really enjoy cleaning my LPs. All part of my vinyl playback experience
A DIY record cleaning setup is not all that hard to do........Bill
http://daveyw.edsstuff.org/vinyl/S&VVC/
Bill,
I have always been intrigued by the idea of steam cleaning, but I am too much of a chicken to subject any of my records to that kind of heat. (http://images.paraorkut.com/img/emoticons/images/c/chicken_dance-176.gif)
Well I did get a bit over aggressive with a $1 lp and ruined it. But on the other hand I have a Japanese Jazz Samba LP that was very noisey and the steam really really helped while just the VPI alone didn't do it.
Bill
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Pretty cool videos Bill. Seemed like he was just doing the first track? Does the steamer make enough steam to do the whole side at once? I can imagine how well that works. Steam cleaning is the ultimate. I also read about some people who clean records in ultrasonic cleaner tank.
Mike C. has offered to lend me his 16.5 for a couple weeks to check it out. Thanks Mike!!
Should I order some Disc Doctor fluid?
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Pretty cool videos Bill. Seemed like he was just doing the first track? Does the steamer make enough steam to do the whole side at once? I can imagine how well that works. Steam cleaning is the ultimate. I also read about some people who clean records in ultrasonic cleaner tank.
Mike C. has offered to lend me his 16.5 for a couple weeks to check it out. Thanks Mike!!
Should I order some Disc Doctor fluid?
It makes enough steam for one side at a time. I then do a normal run thru the VPI and when I'm done the little steamer is ready for side 2. I don't do every LP mind you probably about half get steamed. I've talked to Dave W about 6 times now using Skype "which he told me about". Real nice guy and I love that British accent :lol:
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Pretty cool videos Bill. Seemed like he was just doing the first track? Does the steamer make enough steam to do the whole side at once? I can imagine how well that works. Steam cleaning is the ultimate. I also read about some people who clean records in ultrasonic cleaner tank.
Mike C. has offered to lend me his 16.5 for a couple weeks to check it out. Thanks Mike!!
Should I order some Disc Doctor fluid?
I use the VPI fluid which is now sold as a concentrate. (about $27 including shipping) in ebay. Mix the concentrate with 1 pint of 91% isopropyl alcohol in a 1 gallon jug and then top it off with distilled water. Even at the rate that I clean records a gallon lasts me over a year.
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Rich...no difference in cleaning abilities between any of the Nitty-Gritty cleaners...your merely buying higher levels of automation as you movpe 'up' in the line. The refreshingly candid women that now owns/runs NG even has/had stated rhat right on her site a while back :thumb:
I've never compared a NG to VPI...but have used the VPI cleaner many many times at my old dealer Audio by DOA (Distributors of America) at the corner of Rt.110 & Jericho Tpke in Huntington some 20 years ago.
We've got a few LI'ers here so i thought i'd mention that for Nostalgia sake 8)
I have never likely gotten goosebumps from any record that wasn't vacuum cleaned - new or well used - the effect of an RCM is pretty humongous. Just way more than logic would dictate. Hope you get to abundantly hear what benefit it lends to vinyl sonics that i have over the decades, Rich :D
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I've never compared a NG to VPI...but have used the VPI cleaner many many times at my old dealer Audio by DOA (Distributors of America) at the corner of Rt.110 & Jericho Tpke in Huntington some 20 years ago.
I remember going there. They tore the building down a few years back and built a bank on that corner. :(
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Hope you get to abundantly hear what benefit it lends to vinyl sonics that i have over the decades, Rich :D
Gonna try, thanks to mdconnelly
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I visited Mike today, to pick up the 16.5 and get a lesson on how to clean. We cleaned my Delightfulee LP while there. The side that Mike did sounds better. My side stil has trace of super high pitched ticks. His side is near perfect, my son thought it was a CD. I'm looking forward to getting down to business with my records.
Mike gave me some Disc Doctor to use, but I also want to try this recipe:
http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize041998.htm
It uses alcohol, Lysol, wetting agent and water. Lysol's active ingredient is a chemical that dissolves the cell walls of germs very quickly. Bacteria and mold are not just gently euthanized - they are melted in boiling acid. :twisted:
Thanks Mike!
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Rich, Actually, those are just Disc Doctor bottles. The fluid is actual L'art du Son which is my favorite cleaner because it does such a nice job of lp coverage and cleaning.
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Lysol huh, kinda scared of that.
I simply use 1 part 91% Iso Alch to 3 parts distilled water, and a teaspoon of Dawn as wetting agent, mix, coat a side of record, let it sit for a few minutes, then begin brushing/vacumning with the VPI.
Since Alch. is a disenfectant, as is Lysol, seems kinda redundant to use both.
But let us know how you make out.
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I visited Mike today, to pick up the 16.5 and get a lesson on how to clean. We cleaned my Delightfulee LP while there. The side that Mike did sounds better. My side stil has trace of super high pitched ticks. His side is near perfect, my son thought it was a CD. I'm looking forward to getting down to business with my records.
Mike gave me some Disc Doctor to use, but I also want to try this recipe:
http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize041998.htm
It uses alcohol, Lysol, wetting agent and water. Lysol's active ingredient is a chemical that dissolves the cell walls of germs very quickly. Bacteria and mold are not just gently euthanized - they are melted in boiling acid. :twisted:
Thanks Mike!
Rich I hope those germs don't get scared at the last second and cr@p on your record. :lol:
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Rich,
glad to see you're doing some cleaning. You'll love the VPI 16.5.... Two ?'s:
1) Are you using the VPI brush with the clear nylon type bristles and black handle to scrub the records? or the disc doctor all black curved brushes?
2) Does Mike have another wand ( on VPI rcm ) to use to rinse? What are you using to rinse? distilled water? and another brush only for scrubbing the rinse water?
I"ve found that another wand being used for vacumming the rinse water along with a rinse scrubber have worked well. At least I think the contamination on the wand is kept to a minimum.
Let us know your procedure. maybe I'll learn something new.
Happy cleaning.
Rob S.
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Rich, glad to see you're doing some cleaning.
TWSS
Lysol is the tamer of my planned experiments. :shock: Yes, I want to scare the crap out of that mold! Vinyl is very chemically resistant as long as you stay away from solvents, heat and abrasion.
Rob, Mike lent me his 2 brushes (wands, sorry :oops: ) of the disc doctor style. One for soap, one for water. Mixing them up is punishable by death, I know, I know.. :roll:
I don't see the velour bristles of available commercial wet brushes as being able to scrub out the bottom of the grooves. There are too sparsely placed and too flimsy when wet. (twss) I think the velour is very good for spreading out the liquid, which does the work. It reminds me of those painting pads that spread paint very easily and evenly.
Mike's got me using distilled water for rinsing. He taught me to use a water wand while vacuuming off the rinse water. I have 5 gallons of distilled water here for various esoteric purposes.
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Rob, I use two brushes as Rich described but only 1 wand (the thing that sucks up the fluid off the disc).
I try to make sure that my first spin with the cleaning fluid ends with enough distilled water before completing to effectively cleanse the wand. I then I do a second spin with just distilled water. But I can see where having a 2nd wand would be just as beneficial as two brushes. Just hadn't considered that -- good idea! (damn, now I need to reclean my entire collection :duh :rofl:
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.........damn, now I need to reclean my entire collection :duh :rofl:
As my old Grandma Rosana Dana used to say "It's always something........."
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wtRhTVOFmEI/Snm3qPjDVHI/AAAAAAAAA58/d79cC9KMBRI/s400/RosannaDanna_l.jpg)
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I've cleaned a couple records and the difference is amazing. One in particular that I have a half million miles on, "Coltrane's Sound" really came back to life. There are still some ticks and pops, from ground in dirt that did not get cleaned, and some from damage from being played by an impatient child 25 years ago. This is with using Mike's fluid. I'm still rounding up ingredients to try the lysol based fluid.
I have to say it's a positive result so far. I am spending extra time on the scrubbing, and double rinsing with separate brush, so I think I am getting all I can out of it.
The improved sound quality after cleaning is making me start think about better cart, preamp, etc. The noise was good excuse for not caring about vinyl SQ. I'm hoping some of the sound issues I am hearing are fixed with the new speakers. It's still not clean enough to warrant spending money on better rig or more records, but hopefully I can improve it some more, then we'll let nature take its course: vinyl rabbit hole...
I am hopeful that the records can be made even more quiet, but at what cost?
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Just cleaning with some fluid and sucking the goo out with a vacuum is 80% of the benefit I've found.
Some are better than others and i have a ritual that works well for me, but its mostly nuanced after the dramatic benefit of just cleaning with an RCM :thumb:
I use LAST power cleaner to remove the most stubborn stuff first, LAT International KLEER Disc as general cleaner and finish off each record with LAST Record Preservative (which stabilizes the vinyl so no further destruction can occur with the needle passing thru the grooves and creating friction)
I also use LAST Stylast to increase the life of my styli - the stuff really works and is a good value at $40 given the cost of replacement styli these days.
Glad you heard the benefit of cleaning - when you make peace wih all the crazy rituals of vinyl that turn out to help it so much...you start to realize how second rate digital technologies really are. The digital stuff is ow universally good - but never reaches superb status. Meanwhile, vinyl sound often horrible without the rituals...but can be improved to such a degree with finesse that the end product is a WORLD better than the original.
I would love for digital to sound better - i have a lot of things i could do with the time spent fuasing with vinyl - but time is well served as the result is superior playback (ie, more realistic rendition of the original music event)
John
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Thanks for the fluid recommendations John, and the advice and encouragement, as always!
Has anyone ever tried the GEM Dandy pressure washer record cleaner from George Merrill, or similar water blaster cleaning? I have read that it works very well. The mess and keeping labels dry are some of the drawbacks to his gadget, but I could fix those.
I'm building a hopped up Buffalo DAC this summer. I need to have a good digital player anyways since most of my music and new classical releases are digital. But if it doesn't sound like I hope then I'll probably upgrade my TT and see where it leads. At this point I can't picture buying new records for $30-50, but I really do enjoy listening to vinyl, it is fun and it feels good. It is kind of reinvigorating my interest in the hobby overall. Uh-ooooh......
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Rich,
All the digi players are pretty good today - and, to me, $39 doesn't sound too terribly different than $2000.
Get any digital player that sounds good to you (if the one you have is made in teh past 5 years, you're already in business for a player), add a isolation transformer to feed it (under $100) - it acts as a wastegate for digital hash entering back into the rest of your system - and, viola, you have a very decent sounding digital rig for cheap.
Spend whatever is left in your budget on vinyl...a quality support under your deck (I love maple, myself, found no equal to it) and an RCM and fluids. A change of table or pricey upgrade to any new cartridge can wait.
Good support under your deck and an RCM goes a long way to satisfying a real hunger for great sound :thumb:
It's money much better spent than on digital.
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Thanks for the tip on transformer, and the maple. I think the Technics table will need to go at some point, but I will stuff it with clay first. ;)
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Thanks for the tip on transformer, and the maple. I think the Technics table will need to go at some point, but I will stuff it with clay first. ;)
Man Rich...if you have a hollow bodied, plastic Technics there....you are in for the surprise of your life for 5-7lbs of clay that typically fills these (the 5lbs for the thinner models and approx. 7lbs for the normal thickness models...give or take). I had no idea you had a hollow body - wow, wait to you hear your deck transformed.
For less than $25 to do it (not counting your time) stuffing the hollow bodied plastic (or mdf) decks with non-hardening clay is the BEST bang-for-buck upgrade out there.
Seriously - the clay and some maple under your deck will have it singing in a way you never thought possible.
The digi playback improves with the iso tranny...but it will never get better than 'satisfying'
Meanwhile, vinyl can get to achingly soulful and fulfilling. The difference may be a nuanced to most folks...but to committed audiophools like us it's all the difference in the world, ya' know? :thumb:
Ciao, John
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Yes I have a SL-Q2, plastic plinth Technics. I'll have to look up your clay mod thread on AC.
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Steam cleaning so far has been the most affective method I have used to date. After the steam cleaning, a final spin on the VPI does the trick in spades. Hold the nozzle about 12" away, avoiding the label. No worry if the label gets a little spritz on it no damage.
So go to Best Buy or similar and buy a "Scunci Steamer" about $35. Especially affective for those garage sale finds.
charles
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Sounds good Charles. I'm a little timid about the heat, but probably just like people are timid about the lysol. Records are pretty tough.
I finally stopped by the local camera store looking for the wetting agent Kodak Photo Flo, they didn't have it. So I'll order from bhphoto.
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Brewed up a gallon of Greeg Weaver's record cleaning fluid this morning.
http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize041998.htm
1/2 teaspoon Kodak Photo-Flo
Lysol Household cleaner 3 oz.
91% Isopropyl Alcohol 16oz.
Distilled water 109 oz.
So far I have only cleaned one record, the guinea pig, just to make sure it would not melt plastic on contact. My daughter's "Tina the Ballerina." She did ask coyly, "Will this break it?" I said "No dear, I got the recipe from the internet, so don't worry." "Oh, OK..." She loves to help me clean records.
We scrubbed and vacced 2x, then rinsed 2x. On the TT she said it does sound better, no more big pops. But there is still a lot of low level ticks. This recipe is for regular duty normal cleaning. The article advises to brew up a double strength batch for really dirty records. The recipe for this is not clear, but I think it just reduces the distilled water down to 16 oz, with all other ingredients remaining the same. Use this recipe at your own risk, this interpretation is my own and not specifically that of Greg Weaver.
I'll grab another pint of alcohol to try that recipe and report back. Now to try the regular mix on some normal, less abused records. Tina the Ballerina was my wife's record when she was a little girl.
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Another question for you guys...
On some of my older records, I occasionally hear a distorted sound like a kazoo. It happens on high intensity signals, like trumpet especially, or sax, etc. If the trumpet is on the left, the kazoo sound comes from the right speaker. It is the same note as the instrument, but it is a distortion. Cleaning it doesn't seem to make any difference at all.
I heard it on my original Maynard Ferguson Stratospheric LP which I have played since age 10 with much abuse, so I thought it might be groove damage. Then I bought a nicer used copy of that same record and it sounded EXACTLY the same in the same places. So that makes me wonder if it is groove damage common to all records, bad mastering, or is it my cartridge that can't tracks the intense signals? I can record a sample of it if you don't know what I'm talking about, but I have heard it many times before and it happens on many of my records, especially jazz trumpet stuff, especially early Lee Morgan crackling clean edgy sound. But I do have some trumpet records which don't do it, but they are mellower like Kenny Dorham.
Thanks
Rich
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I tried cleaning a record that has been notoriously difficult to clean. It is Miles Davis Porgy and Bess. I once left it on the platter while I sanded the ceiling above it. The dust sat on it for a couple weeks before I probably just "rinsed it off" in the sink. Then the joint compound rehardened deep in the grooves.
I have been able to remove the visible dirt in previous attempt to clean it before using Mikes RCM. His fluid took away more of the noise, but there was still distortion in the trumpet sound where the signal is most intense.
I applied the new cleaner, let it sit on the record for 30 seconds, then ran the platter and brushed it for about a dozen laps and vacuumed. There are still ticks on the background, but the grit in his trumpet tone is mostly all gone. :thumb:
The noise floor seems much lower now too, except for the ticks. The space sounds dark and deep like a CD and subtle spatial and tonal details are much better than before. Spit in his horn, bell off mic, reed detail, reverb tails, etc.
EDIT: The other side is worse, so I think that must be the dusted side. It improved but not completely clean yet. Something stronger is needed still.
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I have been back to listening to Vinyl for a few months. I do not have a RCM so I came up with my own method to clean records until I get a RCM.
I made my own cleaning fluid, (3 cups Distilled water, 1 cup 91% Isoprophyl Alcohol and one cap full of Kodak Photo Flo 200).
I use my old TT to spin the vinyl at 45 RPMs. I spray the solution all over the record (beforer turning it on) then use a older type Discwasher brush. (the new ones, avoid). I dry the record with a micro fiber towel by lightly holding in on the record asnd sometimes wipe the record. I then lay the record down on it's sleever ane let it air dry.
This method is not perfect yet It does work for me at this time.
Liz
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I realized yesterday that I used Mr. Clean, not Lysol in my fluid recipe. Mr. Clean does not have the special germ dissolving ingredient that's always been in all lysol products. I don't know how I could have screwed that up because I already knew about the chemical and Lysol when I went to buy it, but somehow decades of Mr. Clean TV commercials made me buy it like a zombie. Mr Clean's active ingredient is sodium hydroxide, alkaline detergent. There are some records that my fluid has not cleaned, so I hope the germ dissolving power of Lysol will improve those. But I have to wash a lot of toilets before I finish up the Mr Clean first...
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But I have to wash a lot of toilets before I finish up the Mr Clean first...
Then you best stop wasting your time flapping your gums on the interwebs and get down on your knees and start scrubbing boy!
Or, wait for Irene to just blow it away - one problem solved.
Seriously though, good look to the folks in NC this coming weekend, and to the rest of us along the Atlantic coast.
Just saw a projection that Irene might go right up the bay, that would put her on my front step.
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Thanks Gene, I'll get right on it..
I think the triangle area will be OK, maybe windy and rainy, but not hurricane strength winds. The NC coast will see hurricane winds. I hope she turns out to sea to spare you guys who are more in the path.
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I picked up a KAB EV1 a couple of weeks ago, and it is amazingly more effective than even a vigorous soap and water scrubbing. I had been mixing a bit of dish detergent in warm water, and scrubbing with a large toothbrush, rinsing, and then rinsing with de-ionized water. I have even used steam to try to remove ticks and pops. With the EV1, I spray on Phoenix cleaning solution (better than the provided stuff). Next I use a cut down (to stiffen) bristle paint brush and brush back and forth for two rotations, wipe with a microfiber towel, spray on distilled, use the provided brush, flip and vacuum. The results are much superior to hand washing.
The KAB ev1 is a plastic box, a ring roller bearing, a vacuum hose, a brush, a bottle of solution, and a sort of plastic/neoprene record clamp- not much for your money, except great results.
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http://kabusa.com/ev1.htm
Thanks S Clark, that does look good, especially for the money. I have a super strong vacuum Miele cleaner that would work well with the EV1. I want to be able to press down on the record while cleaning it, will it tip over while scrubbing? Did you get the optional bearing that kab sells for it?
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Mine came with a ring with 40-50 roller bearing in it that the bottom platform sits on. It works well enough, that I can't see a need for anything better.
Scott
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What do you guys think about carbon fiber brushes? I think the bristles are stiffer and longer twss than hair or nylon brushes.
Somehow I ran across this brush from DAK.
http://www.dak.com/reviews/3306story.cfm
which looks the same as this
http://www.amazon.com/Hunt-Carbon-Fiber-Record-Brush/dp/B001A9ST2G
Two thin carbon brushes with a pad between. What about a brush with all carbon bristles for wet scrubbing? Can it be used wet for scrubbing? Is carbon fiber waterproof?
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What do you guys think about carbon fiber brushes? I think the bristles are stiffer and longer twss than hair or nylon brushes.
Somehow I ran across this brush from DAK.
http://www.dak.com/reviews/3306story.cfm
which looks the same as this
http://www.amazon.com/Hunt-Carbon-Fiber-Record-Brush/dp/B001A9ST2G
Two thin carbon brushes with a pad between. What about a brush with all carbon bristles for wet scrubbing? Can it be used wet for scrubbing? Is carbon fiber waterproof?
My Audioquest carbon fiber brush would not work for scrubbing a record. It's too soft and pliable. I use it for cleaning dust and debris off an already clean record. Not sure if it's waterproof.
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I actually have this at my parents house for over 20 years.Have to pick it up. The Zerostat gun actually goes for about 100 bucks alone right now.
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Thanks Putz. I wonder how stiff it has to be. Maybe just getting down into the bottom of the groove is good enough if using a good fluid. I read someone said wet would ruin the bristles, but I don't see how unless they are soluble.
Evan, that looks way-retro!! The guy that sold me my TT gave me some D4 and brush too. Good for dusting, right?
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Thanks Putz. I wonder how stiff it has to be. Maybe just getting down into the bottom of the groove is good enough if using a good fluid. I read someone said wet would ruin the bristles, but I don't see how unless they are soluble.
Evan, that looks way-retro!! The guy that sold me my TT gave me some D4 and brush too. Good for dusting, right?
Worked good back in the day. The gun I have is red . The picture is just off the web
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Yeah but do you have the wooden base? That's what's way retro!
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Yeah but do you have the wooden base? That's what's way retro!
The whole nine yards
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Same here. There's a little diode built into the wooden base, aim the gun at it and pull the trigger to tell if the gun works, as the diode lights up.
Mine doesn't anymore. I wonder if gun is dead or diode is dead, how to check?
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Same here. There's a little diode built into the wooden base, aim the gun at it and pull the trigger to tell if the gun works, as the diode lights up.
Mine doesn't anymore. I wonder if gun is dead or diode is dead, how to check?
Diode ? Mine has a tiny plug that you insert into the tip to recharge it by squeezing the handle a few times
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You donkey, there's nothing to recharge in a Zerostat.
You have a later model than mine, place your 'recharge' item in the muzzle, then in a dark room work the trigger, you should see the 'item' glow faintly, that tells you the Zerostat still emits ions.
In still older ones like mine, the 'item' is embedded in the wooden stand, you have to get the Zerostat positioned 'just so' to make it glow, and either I've lost the knack, or mine is dead.
Recharge...... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :duh
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Here's the official instructional video for anyone who doesn't know how these work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NVIxo0eT58 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NVIxo0eT58)
Generally you don;t need these up north until the dry winter weather sets in, and even then not so much if your house is reasonably humidified.
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Hi everyone
I found this thread researching record cleaning and the vacuums people use. Apologies if the bump of an old thread is an annoyance but I wanted to add this to the archive.
I already have a Spin Clean and didn't want to spend hundreds on a VPI, Nitty Gritty or KAB vacuum cleaning system. I've seen some DIY vacuum hose attachments on youtube but just don't have the time to make one.
I hope this one will work. It is called the Vinyl Vac Wand. I found it on ebay for $30 so I'll take the gamble.
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=781690&ppid=1122&image=659496724&images=659576582,659496502,659496350,659496373,659496431,659496448,659516793,659516806,659496527,659496552,659496576,659496596,659496646,659496665,659496620,659513018,659496724,659576593&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0 (http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=781690&ppid=1122&image=659496724&images=659576582,659496502,659496350,659496373,659496431,659496448,659516793,659516806,659496527,659496552,659496576,659496596,659496646,659496665,659496620,659513018,659496724,659576593&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0)
It is just getting too annoying to me when I'm brushing my records and I can't get that last line of dirt off the record completely.
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Just an update with the Vinyl Vac Wand. It fits well with a normal vacuum hose from a $100 Bissell vac. The problem I'm having trouble with finding the appropriate vacuum to suck off all the dirt from my records. Using a Discwasher record brush I'm gathering all the dirt to one area of my test record but with the Bissell vac and the wand it isn't sucking up all the dirt. I still see it after using it. I guess off to Home Depot or Lowes for a shop vac.
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Sleepy,
Just my two cents but to me it looks like the opening in the wand is too large. I think the power in the vac is ok it's just that the opening in the wand is too big and your not getting the required suction. (Works on the venturi effect).
Jim
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I just discovered that my previous ferocious scrubbing and lathering up the records on the VPI 16 rcm doesn't clean any better than just holding the disc doctor cleaning brush still. I do twist it to 45 degree angle for one rev, then straight, then the other 45, then straight, one rev each. Then rinse the same way with different brush and the record is very clean. At least as clean as the wild scrubbing and foaming I did before. Easier and faster too. OCD be damned.
Do you scrub? Or just hold the brush still? Or what?
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I hold the brush still. First cleaning I do with a Spin Clean. Works pretty well.
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I also got one of those vinyl vac attachments Sleepyguy mentions a few posts above
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I just discovered that my previous ferocious scrubbing and lathering up the records on the VPI 16 rcm doesn't clean any better than just holding the disc doctor cleaning brush still. I do twist it to 45 degree angle for one rev, then straight, then the other 45, then straight, one rev each. Then rinse the same way with different brush and the record is very clean. At least as clean as the wild scrubbing and foaming I did before. Easier and faster too. OCD be damned.
Do you scrub? Or just hold the brush still? Or what?
I basically do the same as you. 2 brushes one for the cleaning and a diff. one for the rinse.
Steam cleaning is really good too. Give it a try Rich
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Just hold mine still
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I use L'Art Du Son Vinyl Record Cleaning Fluid. Sounds French but it's made in Germany. Best stuff I've ever used on my VPI 16.5 RCM.
My process;
1. Soak Disc Doctor brush with fluid and get the spinning vinyl completely wet with solution.
2. Turn off rotation. Clean like Disc Doctor's instruction. 1/3 revolution back & forth with DD brush, 3X, until record is completed brushed & sudsy.
3. Turn on rotation, hold brush steady removing most of sudsy-ness.
4. Turn on vacuum for precisely 2 rotations, no more.
I spoke with Dr. Duane from Disc Doctor & being a chemist guru, he said the soak time is very important as well as the sudsy-ness...
Talking about "Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs" here... but the above does work very effectively for me...
My $0.02,
Pete
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My process;
1. Soak Disc Doctor brush with fluid and get the spinning vinyl completely wet with solution.
2. Turn off rotation. Clean like Disc Doctor's instruction. 1/3 revolution back & forth with DD brush, 3X, until record is completed brushed & sudsy.
3. Turn on rotation, hold brush steady removing most of sudsy-ness.
4. Turn on vacuum for precisely 2 rotations, no more.
That's really close to my procedure. I spray Phoenix Gold on, take a stubby bristle brush back and forth while rotating 2-3 time until sudsy, let stand for 20-30 seconds, wipe off with microfiber towel, spray with distilled, rotate disc while wiping with velour brush 2x, then vacuum.
Takes about just over three minutes per record.
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My DIY wash fluid doesn't foam much with normal rotation of the cleaner TT. I have to scrub across the grooves to make it foam. I used to do that but didn't help much. But leaving it soak is a great idea and doesn't increase my labor cost! :thumb:
I like the DIY cleaner (Lysol, alcohol, wetting agent, water) because the lysol has an ingredient that dissolves mold on contact. I think old dried up mold colonies are the main cause of surface noise. Mold comes from the paper and cardboard liners and jackets. Mold is really difficult to remove using "safe" common household chemicals.
I have a bottle of Disc Doctor cleaning fluid that I've never tried. Is it any good?