Author Topic: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?  (Read 15713 times)

Offline steve

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #105 on: December 13, 2022, 10:28:17 AM »
  Good question Scotty. Hal I believe Audioreview.com and audioinsurgence did a review. I goggled it.

charles

Thanks, Charles. IMO a "review" (often performed by a person whose been paid or given some incentive) is not the same thing as a "customer" (who has paid and hasn't been offered any incentive). Night and day difference.

Just as an fyi, many moons ago…starting in the 90s I think… I used to subscribe to a publication called Bound for Sound written by Marty deWulf. Marty practiced law in Illinois as I recall. He did one or two reviews on the 10A and 11A preamps and that’s when I first heard of Steve and his products.

Yes, I remember you stating such before Nick. He wrote that article, Truth be Told, concerning
the corrupt state of audio. I might have that article somewhere.

For newbies.

BFS accepts no advertising.

Both Martin and Dr. Richard Weiner purchased the 11A as their reference line preamplifier.

Unfortunately, Martin has passed away and Dr. Weiner is still in Milwaukee the last I heard.

cheers

steve

« Last Edit: December 13, 2022, 10:34:58 AM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline GDHAL

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #106 on: December 13, 2022, 10:55:03 AM »
@steve

Tell you what to give you the benefit of the doubt seeing that you didn't do what I asked you to do I reached out to gjm with both my email and phone number let's see if he contacts me.

Also I've attached the photo of the four fingers you allude to, pointing back at me. Do you recognize them?

He is right there in the string so you can read and post to him, or pm him.

Cheers

steve

I thought I made it clear, Steve. I've reached out with my contact credentials. That infers a private message.

Let's see if he responds.

Have you done what I've asked which is to provide my contact credentials to any of your customers? You know, those same people that you need to get permission from in order for you to provide me with their credentials.

Best.

Hal
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #107 on: December 13, 2022, 11:00:44 AM »
Enough about your 10 A or 11 A being perfect what are we children?
Who would make such a claim.....? insanity...

If your 10A or 11A was so perfect why do we not see so many people loving it or buying it.
Cmon be realistic.

It was a simple circuit built in your kitchen in a simple chassis with so so workmanship.
No one is perfect and no thing is perfect
a little humility shows you are human and a serious person.....

True that. Not mentioning any names, but some people just think that their s##t don't stink.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2022, 11:02:24 AM by GDHAL »
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Offline steve

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #108 on: December 13, 2022, 11:12:15 AM »
@steve

Tell you what to give you the benefit of the doubt seeing that you didn't do what I asked you to do I reached out to gjm with both my email and phone number let's see if he contacts me.

Also I've attached the photo of the four fingers you allude to, pointing back at me. Do you recognize them?

He is right there in the string so you can read and post to him, or pm him.

Cheers

steve

I thought I made it clear, Steve. I've reached out with my contact credentials. That infers a private message.

Let's see if he responds.

Have you done what I've asked which is to provide my contact credentials to any of your customers? You know, those same people that you need to get permission from in order for you to provide me with their credentials.

Best.

Hal

"that you didn't do what I asked you to do."

 I am not your underling, nor slave. And no with that deceptive attitude, I will not. Graham has made
himself public, is a customer, and I would not fault him for not responding to you.

Your attempt at demeaning me is truly remarkable, especially considering you are only a computer
programmer and not an engineer. Laughable indeed.

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: December 13, 2022, 11:14:42 AM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline GDHAL

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #109 on: December 13, 2022, 11:14:06 AM »
Just as an fyi, many moons ago…starting in the 90s I think… I used to subscribe to a publication called Bound for Sound written by Marty deWulf. Marty practiced law in Illinois as I recall. He did one or two reviews on the 10A and 11A preamps and that’s when I first heard of Steve and his products.

Thank you, Nick.

Yet another FYI is that people who write a publication for audio gear typically are considered "reviewers" who are paid or otherwise compensated to produce a favorable review. Granted, that doesn't mean that my assertion occurs all the time, it's just a rule of thumb and frankly I believe it happens most of the time.

And while I could be mistaken, I think Doug s. , who's in the business and who's chimed in on this thread, has posted something exactly on par with what I've just stated.

Best

Hal
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #110 on: December 13, 2022, 11:19:16 AM »
@steve

Tell you what to give you the benefit of the doubt seeing that you didn't do what I asked you to do I reached out to gjm with both my email and phone number let's see if he contacts me.

Also I've attached the photo of the four fingers you allude to, pointing back at me. Do you recognize them?

He is right there in the string so you can read and post to him, or pm him.

Cheers

steve

I thought I made it clear, Steve. I've reached out with my contact credentials. That infers a private message.

Let's see if he responds.

Have you done what I've asked which is to provide my contact credentials to any of your customers? You know, those same people that you need to get permission from in order for you to provide me with their credentials.

Best.

Hal

"that you didn't do what I asked you to do."

 I am not your underling, nor slave. And no with that deceptive attitude, I will not. Graham has made
himself public, is a customer, and I would not fault him for not responding to you.

Your attempt at demeaning me is truly remarkable, especially considering you are only a computer
programmer and not an engineer. Laughable indeed.

cheers

steve

A computer programmer with significant experience in audio and knowing how a system is supposed to sound, hence voicing, again remaining on point with this topic.

I've attended hundreds of concerts and listen to thousands upon thousands of shows that I haven't attended. check my list...

You listen to but a few classical concerts and that becomes the basis for all things audio. Sorry just doesn't work that way.

Besides you forget the primary rationale for being in this let's call it hobby to begin with which is enjoyment of the music and that is a subjective element ...what one prefers to hear....

Do you know anything about the distortion and harmonics in terms of which harmonics are favorable and desirable and which ones are not?

You should . you're an "engineer" right?
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #111 on: December 13, 2022, 11:47:38 AM »
.....
"that you didn't do what I asked you to do."
.......

Once again, your horrible habit (and illegal on the basis of defamation of character if in a court of law) of misquoting me is abundantly clear.

I wrote "Have you done what I've asked....?

As in the form of a question. Not a directive as your misquotation would have one believe.

Engineer maybe, proficient in the English language, definitely not.

Best.

Hal
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
http://halr.x10.mx/other.html

Offline steve

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #112 on: December 13, 2022, 12:10:25 PM »

It was a simple circuit built in your kitchen in a simple chassis with so so workmanship.
No one is perfect and no thing is perfect
a little humility shows you are human and a serious person.....

True that. Not mentioning any names, but some people just think that their s##t don't stink.
[/quote]

Interesting comments in an attempt to stop the sales of a manufacturer's products. (Fortunately I am
retired for 10 years.) This is typical of what happens in other forums and why they are dangerous.
Martin DeWulf's (criminal defense attorney) article "Truth be Told" explains much of what these gents are
doing.

By the way, the UltraVerve and come to mind Herron preamplifiers are extremely near perfect themselves
and I recommend them, and have before. So it can be done, both Topround and gdhal, by more than me.  :D

I understand Top, you have attempted to learn from others on forums, but other companies have designed
extremely close to perfect products. It has been done for decades. No harm done.

I guess I should have known that a computer programmer would not have known
the 11A was to replace the flawed 10A.

Here are some review folks, from customers, tours, and group auditions that I did not attend.

BFS is Bound for Sound, who accept no advertising.
Martin DeWulf is editor, and criminal defense attorney
() for adding names etc.
All is quotes.

Graham: "I took the B11a into a shop in Auckland. I know the owner fairly well, and we agree that Shindo make some wonderful pieces of kit. (I wasn't looking for a change!) Almost immediately we started listening, he said "That's really fast!" We also agreed that the B11a was much clearer, making the Shindo Aurieges sound slow, muddy, and coloured."

Terence: "I have been using the 11A since I received it but I didn't want to be premature in my assassment, although my initial assessments were favourable. Now, I must say that the 11A is certainly the best preamp I have ever owned, and the best I have ever heard-ss or tube. Thank you for a wonderful product, Steve."

Charles Phd, does musical reviews for PBS, Florida: "I just saw this post and you know I have to chime in here. After three years of preamp auditions I just pulled the trigger on the SAS 11A preamp. It was an unknown product to me but Marty Dewulf over at BFS (and who knows whats going on there these days, by that I mean it seems that Marty has slipped into retirement - forgive me Marty if I am wrong) Anyway he always said wonderful things about the preamp! So having no mind of my own I bought the preamp from Steve at SAS audio. The reason I bought the preamp is that I did not want to do the crazy audiophile thing of always upgrading. Buying the SAS preamp was the best thing I could have done. It's wonderful! Clear, fast musical and very truthful to the source. And more importantly it works well with both tube and solid state amps (i.e. Pass 30.5 & Audio-space 300b mono-blocks).

Hey good listening

Charlie

PS I have no connection to Steve at SAS audio"

Bernie: "I have also tested the 11A in terms of comparing the sound from my excellent cd source directly to amps versus inserting the 11A pre between. I could detect no difference whatsoever.... So, my two cents: the SAS preamps are stellar – with my 11A I hear no compression or any other alteration of the originating signal."

George: "Steve,, this pre is "top shelf",, I currently have it thru odyssey mono se's to a pair of Carver Amazings,,, it's gonna be difficult for me to box it up and ship it on to Weez,,, organic, man,, organic,,, as soon as I receive the address, I'll ship it on,, I've got it "dialed in",,, it's so good,,it's scary---thanks for the opportunity to let me/us audition such a fine piece of gear---- george (George tested the 11A on tour.)

Charlie (a different Charlie than Phd): "Steve,The overwhelming Majority of comments regarding the 11A during the tour have been very favorable. Everyone at Woodsyi's with the exception of Doug S who seemed to have prior issues with you because of you refusing to offer the 10A with a remote volume thought that the 11A was by far the best sounding pre of the bunch. DaveG sat there with Scotty and myself and fully agreed that the 11A was clearly the superior preamplifier out of the group."

Rich (Audio Circle): "I've been listening to a lot of preamps this week and even with the problems, it is evident to me that the 11A is in a different league. I'm glad I heard it first, because it set a high mark for the others to follow. The only other pre that sounds naturally musical so far is the Minimax with vintage 12AU7s. They are just too tubey though. But at least the sound is natural and tone is not all screwed up. Manley Shrimp sounds like sandpaper and Van Alstine is like cheap hifi, with hyped treble and bass and weird honky mids. I guess that's what you can expect for 1500 bucks. Makes 10b look very tempting."
Thanks Steve.
Rich"

Ray: "your prees are somewhat legendary in their reviews."

Jack: "My 10A is going to the grave with me, it's my favorite piece of audio gear. The 11A is better but they rarely come up for sale." (Jack auditioned my 11A at his venue.)

Bob: "Hey guys. . .if anyone's interested, I'm selling my Tram 2 preamp since my SAS B11A is so awesome...." (Tram 2 uses 45, 2A3s)

(Dr.) Rich Weiner, Bound for Sound: "The SAS 10A is the most musically truthful preamp I'm aware of, and I will expand that statement by listing some of the line stages I've had in my otherwise very stable system: Herron VTSP-1, VAC CPA III, VAC Standard LE, Audio Research 3A, ARC 8, ARC 10, Mark Levinson ML-1, Levinson ML-7, Levinson ML-10A, Original Aronov PS-100 and Musical Concepts modification, Nagra PL-P, Beveridge RM-1, Rappaport, Placette Passive - there are more, but you get the point. Until I got the 10A, I struggled to make the other components live up to their potential."
Dr. Weiner purchased the 11A Line Preamplifier as their reference. March 2006)

(Martin DeWulf) Bound for Sound, Issue #163 SAS Audio 10A Triode Preamp is one of only 3 listed in "Exceptional Merit" catagory. "I expecially feel that way about the SAS 10A, a tube unit of moderate expense that simply stomps a mud hole in just about every active unit made - regardless of price."
(Martin purchased an 11A (~2005-6) as his reference line preamplifier until his death ~2 years ago.)

cheers

steve




 


« Last Edit: December 13, 2022, 12:27:08 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline ejk

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #113 on: December 13, 2022, 12:28:16 PM »
Ok don't know how this thread got this way. I'm out. NICK B send me a PM when it's all done, and they have moved on. Steve has been a valued member here and I'm not sure who started this thread of insults but I'm pretty sure I have a good idea.

See Ya
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #114 on: December 13, 2022, 01:00:11 PM »
hi hal,
......no, i'm not in the biz.  just a hobbyist, maybe a bit more active than some; certainly not as active as many. ....

Apologies for my mistakenly believing you're in the audio business (as in trading your audio expertise for money and/or selling *anything* audio/video related).

I do believe my erroneous thinking that you're in the business dates back a while (6 years?) and originated from audiogon, not here on audionervosa, if that means anything or serves to clarify where I may have come into that belief.

Thank you for the clarification.  :)

Also, thank you for the link to the magazine's site.  I've since bookmarked it  :D
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Offline steve

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #115 on: December 13, 2022, 01:08:59 PM »
>>I shall reply to your comments with >>.

A computer programmer with significant experience in audio and knowing how a system is supposed to sound, hence voicing, again remaining on point with this topic.

>>Being a computer programmer means nothing. You are not an electronics engineer, nor in the field at all.
You know nothing of electronics design, nor what is possible, yet you criticize what you don't understand.
You have no idea of how accurate my components are, yet criticize them out ignorance. Misleading is not
truthful gdhal.


I've attended hundreds of concerts and listen to thousands upon thousands of shows that I haven't attended. check my list...

>>Rock concerts, right, or classical. Like any stereo will reproduce such "accurately" for either.
James stated it quite well in his post, how poor quality rock concerts are. How about real orchestra concerts
with real fidelity gdhal. Do you understand that recordings vary in quality. By the way, I have attended concerts
even in Europe.
>>So which do you actually believe, live music, preferred quality, or by the specs. You have mentioned all three.
So which one you pushing now?

You listen to but a few classical concerts and that becomes the basis for all things audio. Sorry just doesn't work that way.

>>That is a point blank lie gdhal. I have attended concerts, even in Europe. I have mentioned the listening procedures I use when listening testing a component for accuracy to the source. That means what is recorded on the source is faithfully reproduced through the electronics. What audio systems are designed for. I also attend real concerts even in Europe.  :D

Besides you forget the primary rationale for being in this let's call it hobby to begin with which is enjoyment of the music and that is a subjective element ...what one prefers to hear....

>>As you mentioned earlier, we agreed enjoying live music. So which is true, you love live, you love preferred
musical quality, or simply the specs, scope, meters measurements?
You have mentioned all three on these pages.
So which is it gdhal?

Do you know anything about the distortion and harmonics in terms of which harmonics are favorable and desirable and which ones are not?

>>I suggest you read The Radiotron Designers Handbook, 26+ engineers describes the harmonics quite well.
I have a copy of the book.
By the way, most amplifiers use just a watt or two in playback at normal levels (higher percentage due to closer to
max power in flea power amps), so the harmonic distortion is quite low. When one gets really loud, the speaker itself introduces considerable distortion.

>>Cheers

steve
[/quote]
« Last Edit: December 13, 2022, 02:07:05 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline GDHAL

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #116 on: December 13, 2022, 01:49:46 PM »
As I stated (cannot use reply numbers as they are shown to be inaccurate) December 12, 2022, 06:53:54 PM:

"Steve, it is obvious you are intent on having the proverbial last word. I have no problem with that."

To quote Bob Dylan,

It ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
If'n you don't know by now
And it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
It'll never do somehow
When your rooster crows at the break of dawn
Look out your window and I'll be gone
You're the reason I'm a-traveling on
But don't think twice, it's all right



Best.

Hal
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
http://halr.x10.mx/other.html

Offline Nick B

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Re: what’s your philosophy of voicing a system?
« Reply #117 on: December 13, 2022, 02:47:17 PM »
I don’t want this to go on and I doubt any other members here want it to continue either. I’m therefore issuing a cease and desist order 🛑 ✋
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