Author Topic: I think my System is finally finished  (Read 6836 times)

Offline doug s.

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 687
Re: I think my System is finally finished
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2021, 10:27:21 PM »
hey!

i just now saw this, and i'm pretty sure it never happened!  while it's true that a preamp w/o a remote is not on my shopping list, i would never make a sonic judgment about it because of that.  and i certainly NEVER had any issues w/you, steve; for this or any other reason!?!  why would i ever have issues w/someone who's made a design choice about his product, simply because i'd prefer something else - seriously?!?  (i might consider using my diy paradise eva with it, if i heard it and liked it enough - heh!)

while i've been to rim's and enjoyed his system on quite a few occasions, (not lately, tho; he seems to have written me off since i've been banned from a well-known site run by someone who always had it in for me), i actually don't ever recall hearing hearing one of steve's preamps there.  and, while i am getting up there a bit in age, my memory is still pretty sharp.

i do recall hearing a modwright tubed preamp there that sounded solid-state and i wasn't too crazy about it; i don't remember the model, and maybe it was even w/a remote!  it certainly wasn't an sas preamp. maybe the modwright is what charlie was thinking about?  everyone there certainly knew it wasn't my cuppa...

just wanting to set the record straight...

doug s.

Charlie: "Steve,The overwhelming Majority of comments regarding the 11A during the tour have been very favorable. Everyone at Woodsyi's with the exception of Doug S who seemed to have prior issues with you because of you refusing to offer the 10A with a remote volume thought that the 11A was by far the best sounding pre of the bunch. DaveG sat there with Scotty and myself and fully agreed that the 11A was clearly the superior preamplifier out of the group."
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 10:29:50 PM by doug s. »

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 925
    • Reference components
Re: I think my System is finally finished
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2021, 03:48:56 PM »
hey!

i just now saw this, and i'm pretty sure it never happened!  while it's true that a preamp w/o a remote is not on my shopping list, i would never make a sonic judgment about it because of that.  and i certainly NEVER had any issues w/you, steve; for this or any other reason!?!  why would i ever have issues w/someone who's made a design choice about his product, simply because i'd prefer something else - seriously?!?  (i might consider using my diy paradise eva with it, if i heard it and liked it enough - heh!)

while i've been to rim's and enjoyed his system on quite a few occasions, (not lately, tho; he seems to have written me off since i've been banned from a well-known site run by someone who always had it in for me), i actually don't ever recall hearing hearing one of steve's preamps there.  and, while i am getting up there a bit in age, my memory is still pretty sharp.

i do recall hearing a modwright tubed preamp there that sounded solid-state and i wasn't too crazy about it; i don't remember the model, and maybe it was even w/a remote!  it certainly wasn't an sas preamp. maybe the modwright is what charlie was thinking about?  everyone there certainly knew it wasn't my cuppa...

just wanting to set the record straight...

doug s.

Charlie: "Steve,The overwhelming Majority of comments regarding the 11A during the tour have been very favorable. Everyone at Woodsyi's with the exception of Doug S who seemed to have prior issues with you because of you refusing to offer the 10A with a remote volume thought that the 11A was by far the best sounding pre of the bunch. DaveG sat there with Scotty and myself and fully agreed that the 11A was clearly the superior preamplifier out of the group."

No harm taken Doug. You have always been a straight shooter and I appreciate that. My posts have to be approved by the moderator on that forum. Frankly, I agree. I never liked the Mod either, not accurate, sterile, not natural at all. 

cheers

steve
Steve Sammet (Designer/Owner, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
"V" 40pf 1 meter 6N Pure Copper Wire ICs,
SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamplifier
SAS 25 W Near Perfect Reference Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way test Spkrs, 28hz -3db,  - 20khz

Offline doug s.

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 687
Re: I think my System is finally finished
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2021, 10:21:26 PM »
hi steve,

actually, i'm glad to have seen this - i'd be disappointed if you believed that nonsense - that i'd judge a product's sonic qualities because of something like what was mentioned in that post?  seriously?!?  i'd hate to think you may have believed that, and again, i'm happy to have had the chance to set the record straight.  (here's an example - i think pure audio project speakers are the bees knees. i was totally blown away by the sound of the trio's at a caf a few years back. thus my extreme disappointment when i found out they're from israel - not a country who's businesses will ever knowingly get any of my money.  and i'd diss a preamp that sounds fantastic because i want a remote, and it doesn't have one? not even a remote possibility - hah!  :mrgreen:)

and, the fact of the matter is, that i would have loved the chance to hear your statement preamp at woodsyi's, and i'd certainly remember the occasion.  sas gear is simply something that most folk knowledgeable about audio have heard of, if not heard. 

best,

doug s.
ps - "that forum" -  i suspect it's the one where i'm persona non grata?  because i don't put up with nonsense?  8)
No harm taken Doug. You have always been a straight shooter and I appreciate that. My posts have to be approved by the moderator on that forum. Frankly, I agree. I never liked the Mod either, not accurate, sterile, not natural at all. 

cheers

steve

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 925
    • Reference components
Re: I think my System is finally finished
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2021, 10:14:30 PM »
I believe you Doug. No sweat.

Arg, I found two metal oxide resistors in the speaker crossovers from years ago. They look close to metal films.

I have to parallel resistors, include very high ohmage ones as my 0.5% accurate Tektronix resistance/capacitance meter just cannot measure to the accuracy necessary. So I use a small 26 turn Vishay bulk foil variable control in series and pink noise to match speakers. We are talking 1 part in 100,000 minimum on the bass control.

Anyway, I replaced the high ohmage metal oxides with metal films and what only I can describe as something I did not believe was possible occurred.

ps. In general, a bad sonic part becomes more important to sonics, the music, as the number of poor parts is reduced.

I have not mentioned it in a while, but the system is a grand lab experiment to see what the ear is capable of, and to see how live the recording can sound with some of the better recordings.

Of course, the experiment is virtually impossible to copy. But I think it is valuable information, as knowledge is  power and helps in making decisions, and what is simply marketing tatics. 

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 03:47:00 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Designer/Owner, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
"V" 40pf 1 meter 6N Pure Copper Wire ICs,
SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamplifier
SAS 25 W Near Perfect Reference Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way test Spkrs, 28hz -3db,  - 20khz

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 925
    • Reference components
Re: I think my System is finally finished
« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2021, 01:28:18 PM »
A little while back I noticed the sonic/music become more full. So I started performing some experiments with the tightness of the speaker wire nuts on both the amplifier and speaker.

For newbies, the tighter the nuts, the more contact pressure, and the lower the contact resistance.

I think this aspect has been extremely neglected, having never seen a post mentioning the problem over the decades on any forum.

That is, the sonics will vary with the contact resistance of the speaker wires at both the amplifier and speakers. I am able to alter the sonics on my system by simply adjusting the contact pressure on either the speaker or amplifier connections.

Finger tight is not enough. I noticed a musical difference at every session.

First, I cleaned the connectors on both amp and speakers with a cleaner that leaves no residue. I cleaned the speaker wire ends as well. 
Next, use either a wrench or worst case pliers and tighten more, until extremely tight. This should provide some consistency in musical reproduction if one notices the sonic qualities seeming to change from session to session.

Will everyone notice a musical difference? No. If the system has masking problems, too full, a sonic difference may not be noticed.

If ok, I would like to post this same post in amps and preamps, as I have never seen this aspect presented in any forum.

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 01:41:23 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Designer/Owner, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
"V" 40pf 1 meter 6N Pure Copper Wire ICs,
SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamplifier
SAS 25 W Near Perfect Reference Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way test Spkrs, 28hz -3db,  - 20khz

Offline Nick B

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3168
Re: I think my System is finally finished
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2021, 01:40:27 PM »
A little while back I noticed the sonic/music become more full. So I started performing some experiments with the tightness of the speaker wire nuts on both the amplifier and speaker.

For newbies, the tighter the nuts, the more contact pressure, and the lower the contact resistance.

I think this aspect has been extremely neglected, having never seen a post mentioning the problem over the decades.

That is, the sonics will vary with the contact resistance of the speaker wires to both the amplifier and speaker. I am able to alter the sonics on my system by simply adjusting the contact pressure on either the speaker or amplifier connections.

Finger tight is not enough. First, clean the connectors on both amp and speakers with a cleaner that leaves no residue. Clean the speaker wire ends as well. 
Next, use either a wrench or worst case pliers and tighten more, until extremely tight. This should provide some consistency in musical reproduction if the sonic qualities seem to change from session to session.

Will everyone notice a musical difference? No. If the system has masking problems, too full, a sonic difference may not be noticed.

I would appreciate any posts that describe the sonic difference they notice.

If ok, I would like to post this same post in amps and preamps, as I have never seen this aspect presented in any forum.

cheers

steve

Steve,
Its ok with me to post in those sections as well. I dont recall having seen this presented elsewhere either. I cant try this experiment as for the first time ever Im using bananas.
Nick
Van Alstine SET 120 Control Amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Auralic Aries Mini & Mojo Audio lps
Audio Envy & Wywires cables
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11210
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: I think my System is finally finished
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2021, 01:20:16 PM »
I agree, finger tight just doesn't cut it. Fir many years now I have used ab Audioquest device called The Postman. It look like a screwdriver handle with 1/2 and 7/16th sockets sunk into each hand. With an open ended or socket  wrench on a ratchet handle it is too easy to apply too much torque and strip or even break  a plastic binding post. The Postman gives you the grip of a socket but without the leverage of a wrench, making it easier to control how tight you make the binding post.

It does a great job and in audiophile terms it is a bargain at less than $20 from Amazon or any of the online high end dealers.

Highly recommended

Remember, it's all about the music........

Nola Boxers
Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
McIntosh MC 275
ARC SP-9
VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 925
    • Reference components
Re: I think my System is finally finished
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2021, 09:32:23 PM »
Unfortunately, my speaker jacks are round, otherwise I would use an inch pounds tork wrench to
tighten.

For newbies, over the years, I have found banana, spades etc to be inferior to direct speaker
wire connection. Bypassing the jacks and soldering the speaker wires to the OPT leads is probably the
best of all, but I have not proven it, and I need flexibility to remove the amps for testing purposes.

It is important that the surface be completely smooth, with no slight kinks or small, rough spots that
would reduce the contact area, increasing the resistance.
Increasing the resistance lowers the damping factor across the entire audio band.

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 03:55:15 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Designer/Owner, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
"V" 40pf 1 meter 6N Pure Copper Wire ICs,
SAS Audio Labs Test Phono Stage
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamplifier
SAS 25 W Near Perfect Reference Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way test Spkrs, 28hz -3db,  - 20khz