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SENERGY What really is It ??

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rollo:
   Character of components ? Electrical characteristics of components ? All of the above ? They like each other? :duh :rofl: My ears tell me so ? :roll:


charles

steve:

--- Quote from: rollo on August 13, 2017, 10:15:01 AM ---   Character of components ? Electrical characteristics of components ? All of the above ? They like each other? :duh :rofl: My ears tell me so ? :roll:

charles

--- End quote ---

Here is my explanation in this string, as in the phase splitter string.

All synergy is, is an attempt to combine separate elements to obtain maximum sonic quality. Synergy is variable as it depends upon how the combination sonic quality compares to perfect entities that are combined. (Let's leave out the room and speakers for now.)
The main culprits are lack of correct designing, and lack of understanding how sensitive the "ear" is.

Virtually every part is critical to the sonic properties of a component. That includes parts in the power supply (and number of stages), parts quality in the rest of the circuit, harmonic distortion properties, frequency response etc.

The "ear" is incredibly sensitive to tonal abnormalities etc based upon Olson, Rane, Fletcher, Jensen, RCA Radiotron Designers Handbook etc, and I have confirmed before and after reading these sources over the years. 

If we are dealing with a preamplifier to amplifier combination, we look for enough signal voltage to drive the amplifier. This is usually not any problem. What could be a problem though, is output signal current capability of the preamplifier. Is that signal current enough to drive the output capacitance, IC capacitance, and amplifier input capacitance?

With not enough signal current, as the frequency rises, the HD distortion rises. I have seen sine waves become triangular waves as the frequency rises. But one does not need a buffer stage. A 12au7/6sn7/6dj8 type tubes generally provide plenty without any buffer. If a buffer is needed, there is one more stage to degrade the music.

As a very simple example of synergy; if a preamplifier is full sounding, we tend to find an amplifier that is thin sounding to compensate. Unfortunately, there is usually more than one flaw in a component, unless we are dealing with superb pieces of equipment. 
And some flaws one cannot cancel out. For instance, how does one cancel smearing caused by a component? If a component is so full it loses detail, how can that inner detail be recreated? Some of the biggest problems I see in components are;

1. Insufficient power supply filtering stages
2. Insufficient size and quality of coupling capacitors in tube components

My philosophy is to perform listening tests over months for each part, if possible, and each component for accuracy in absolute terms. With proper design, there will be less signal degradation, thus higher synergy can be achieved. Then I would design the speaker.

A couple of reasons why speaker sound so different are:

1. Different frequency responses and price range.
2. Different venue testing the speaker
3. Different quality components in the speaker.
4. Different quality active components in the test system. If a designer is using components that lack sufficient high frequency response, then the speaker will probably be bright sounding.
Etc.

Based upon these reasons, I would provide variable adjustments so the customer can create the best synergy possible. I have three adjustments on my speakers alone.

One could go on and on, but I hope this is not too complicated nor simplistic.

Cheers
Steve

Nick B:
Steve,
Not too simple nor too complicated... it's just right imo. I have mixed feelings about synergy. I would not want "synergy" to be the solution for equipment that has design flaws. I'd rather just get components to produce the sound that I enjoy, whether colored to some extent or not. That's why I'm a fan of cable looms...wires that show a consistency in design and execution. I'm sure many of you have much more experience in this area and have tried many more products, but that's my .02 c
Nick

tmazz:
Steve, I have mentioned this before, but I am not sure if you were part of that thread. I understand and appreciate all of the points made in your post, but I do have one problem with what you wrote and that is your references to design "flaws." I am just not comfortable with you referring to some of the things you describe as flaws, a word which carries a very negative connotation when taking about a design. I prefer to call them design limitations. Using the word flaw implies that the piece of equipment sounds the way it does because of some error made by the engineer. Most times this is not the case at all.  In a perfect world amn engineer would have an unlimited budget and not restrictions in terms of size, weight. heat dissipation etc and a customer base that would be willing to pay whatever it took to make a perfect sounding amp. But this is rarely, if ever the case. I am sure there is not an audio designer out there that wouldn't love to put together an amp made with all top of the line Dueland caps, but the reality is that in most case, the cost of those caps could exceed the entire parts budget for the amp.
Engineers do not undersize power suppliers or coupling caps because they don't know any better, they do so because they have to make compromises to make the amp work within the restrictions that they are given to work with and quite often produce a very good amp given those restrictions. To refer to a $1k amp as flawed because it does not sound as good as one that sells for $25k IMO is doing a great disservice to the company that sells it and the engineer who designed it.

That said, given that an amp at any given price point will have to have some kind of design limitations and that the improvement of any of the sonic characteristics will have a price tag associated with it, it is up to the engineer, guided by his personal taste and perhaps the "house sound" of the company that is producing the amp, the engineer has to which parameters he wants to improve so that he can stay within his budget and produce an amp with a sonic signature that will make it successful in the market place. (Sorry if this sound like a rant, but as a degreed engineer I get very defensive when I get told that something is flawed because because it doesn't performs as well as something that costs significantly more. I have had numerous arguments with marketing types that come in and say wee need you to build us a box that we can sell for $1k and then they see then prototype complain I am proposing a poor design because that our competitors model XYZ has 15 more feature than ours. To which I told them that they competitors box also sells for $7k. Duh! Give me $7k to work with and I can deliver all of those features as well.)

I do agree with the points you are trying to get across, but as a fellow EE I think you can understand why the choice of vocabulary gets under my skin.

Anyway, back to synergy. In my mind synergy is simply the selection of various pieces of equipment whose sonic signature complement each other and add up to a better sound when used together as oppose to pieces whose sonic signature class and sound worse as a pair.

rollo:

--- Quote from: doug s. on August 13, 2017, 03:02:25 PM ---it's the misspelling of the word "synergy"   :rofl:

doug s.

--- End quote ---

   Got me there Doug. What an idiot I am.


charles

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