Systemic Development > Psycho-Acoustics
Midrange resonance in large odd shaped room
richidoo:
Thanks for looking it over Bryan and for your observations.
RoomEQWizard v3 only allows waterfalls up to 750Hz and only out to one second. Is ETF6 more flexible? Or can you recommend a better analysis tool?
When the sacred music show came on this morning it sounded fantastic, because the room sounds kinda like a church anyway. But I can only listen to that stuff for so long... :? haha
I am working on negotiating approval for putting up more panels. Is ceiling just as effective as walls for midrange attenuation? I might be able to disguise ceiling treatments better. I know I can do anything in the family room/listening area, but the kitchen is proving to be a greater challenge. Based on the position of the listening chair, on the edge of the kitchen area boundary, some attenuation in the kitchen area will probably be necessary?
Rich
bpape:
Huh - never noticed that before about the waterfall restriction. Guess that's 'cause usually we're more worried about the bottom end ringing. Anyway, it's not a big deal - I can pretty well guess what it looks like.
Yes - a soft ceiling over a hard floor is very effective. If you're up for a construction project, a coffered ceiling with 4" OC703 panels in the coffer centers makes for an exceptional sounding ceiling without getting too dead.
The kitchen is what it is - not much you can do about it. If you have a closet availalbe, you may consider a couple panels on stands to put up when you're really serious about listening - they'd sit back closer to the kitchen doorway.
You'll need some things on the side walls of the space too. You're better to put more, smaller treatments spread throughout the room rather than a couple big gobs in just a couple of places.
Bryan
richidoo:
Thanks Bryan. That is a lot of absorption! I assume you mean covering the whole ceiling, or as much as possible? Plus some more on the walls. Can it be 1" more discreet panels or should it all be 4" to shorten bass overhang also?
If I were to go with the moveable panels you suggested, exactly where would they go, you mean at the rear wall of the listening space where the cabinets are, or somewhere in the middle near the back door to the outside? Would this be as effective as the panelled ceiling? I would guess not.
The construction project part of it is not a big deal, but my wife has already exnayed the coffered ceiling. So I we are considering just clean square edged panels in bright white covering. I would say the chances of that are 1:100 at this point.
What about a retractable vinyl drop down sound barrier above the half wall between kitchen and LR? Did you ever see anything like that? I know Rives has done them occasionally. I could also turn the stereo 90 so the speakers are either side of fireplace.
I have another possiblity by moving the stereo to another room. If I build a rear wall I can have 1:1.14:1.39 proportions as recommended on ModeCalc. But the total volume is only 1555cuft, compared to my current 7000cuft plus openings to other areas totalling >10kcuft. If I don't build that rear wall I would have a weird rear wall, with three different lengths but it could be treated with acoustic dampening. I can make a dwg for you if you want to see? I assume I would need new smaller speakers as I think the Focus would be too much for a smaller room. Is that necessarily true? Supposedly I would have complete and total control of this room (I am so naive)
Thanks a lot Bryan
Rich
bpape:
The movables would be behind the listening position about where there would be a wall - if there was one.
On the ceiling, I'd do it primarily over the listening position. Hang a cloud maybe 3-4" thick spaced a couple inches off the ceiling. The idea with the coffer was that only about 1/2 of the ceiling would be absorbtion and the rest would act as a crude diffusor. On the walls, I'm talking about maybe 3 panels on the front wall and a couple on each side wall. We don't want it too dead but with a hardwood floor and the kitchen in play, that'll be no problem.
What would the dimensions of the new room be? Having a dedicated controllable space is always nice but space is nice too...
If you can post a pic of the new potential space as is and where you'd put the wall with dimensions, that would help to see what we have. Don't get too hung up with perfect dimensions - there aren't any. All you can do is try to avoid really bad overlapping modal issues. If it's a little less 'ideal' but gives you more space, go for it.
Bryan
richidoo:
The cloud in the listening area sounds good. I have a tray ceiling above the stereo triangle, it rises up a foot higher (11') than the rest of the downstairs ceiling, making a pocket which could contain treatment very inconspicuously, even coffer could work there. You can see the line where the 11' ceiling tray is, would cloud inside there be sufficient? Would you recommend 100% cloud coverage, or spaced out to a lower percentage of coverage? Would there be too much deadening with 4" FG on ceiling?
I am more worried about deadening the front wall where you mentioned you would place 3 panels. That seems to the the magic area where hard and flat makes the music come alive. When I tried 244s against the front wall behind speakers I lost the soundstage completely, even though the actual direct sound was improved. tritraps on the floor same thing. That front wall wants to be bare ass naked. So not sure how absorption on the front wall would best be applied to avoid the deadening and loss of soundstage. It really all comes down to the waterfall, that is the teller. Do you use RplusD Bryan? What do you use to see waterfall at 2k?
I'll get some pics and a drawing of the other space up tomorrow. Carl thinks it is a winner too, he has seen it. The dimensions are roughly 21'10" (total length including foyer at rear, wall could be at 16' 1" or less) x 11'8" wide x 9'11" tall. Semi vaulted ceiling with a 5'+ wide flat at top. Open staircase at rear.
I wonder if the Focus speakers won't be too much for that small space. They can easily fill 7500cuft with clean loud sound, this is only about 2000cu max. Some Focus users have had to sell their monsters because they couldn't tame the bass in a small room. Other rave reviews were in a tiny room. I will haul them up there to find out eventually. I'll have a small system up there tomorrow for a test drive :)
Rich
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