AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Analog Devices => Topic started by: rollo on January 09, 2020, 11:33:09 AM
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Ah is it nobler to choose MM or MC. The hunt is on. Looking at Grado Statement2 or Koetsu Urishi, Lyra Kleos or Kiseiki. Using an Audio Hungary tubed phono with both MM and MC cards. Arm is Kuzma 12" VTA adj. Any input ???
charles
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:shock: I'll be interested in the responses... but way above my paygrade.
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I have the Kleos and would never go back to MM again.
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Agree, MC is a better choice
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So is it universal that none of us wants a MM on our tonearms?
My Dyna 20x2L and my Blackbird are not on the high end of MC, but they slaughter any MM that I've heard.
ARE there any MM that compete in the $1K and up range?
Sorry to take your thread a bit astray, Charles.
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I actually use a fairly cheap MM... and I'm sure many would think my stereo slaughters countless ones with MCs... I'm not saying I wouldn't like an MC, I just get so much out of an MM that I'm not sure why the effort of an MC would be necessary. Although I don't exactly have a "stock" phono preamp with all the typical flaws.
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Charles
I think I am going to try a Hana MC next. Their top of the line has been getting rave reviews and is a little more sensibly priced if there is such a thing.
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I'm a rookie compared to many around here. The MM I've tried were Shure v15 III, a Grado blue, and the ADC XLM MK III, and a Signet TK 10 ML. Of that bunch, I probably liked the Grado the best. None had the detail of my first MC, a Dyna 10x5.
Folsom, which MM are you fond of?
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Happy Hunting Charles!
I too will be interested in the responses, on my 2nd Dyna 20x2L and itching to try something new.
And like Jack, though not in your list of candidates, I hear lots of good buzz about Hana.
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I have and still own a Linn Arkiv and Micro Benz so I know what MC can offer. Using a Gold Note Boboli a HO MC as we speak. The Linn is .15mv a tough load. The Benz needs re-tipping. Thought about re-tipping Benz however not sure if worth it.
The Audio Hungary Qualiton phono has both MM [ 40db ] and MC [ 62 db ]. Do not want to use a step up transformer. I was always curious as to why Grado who has patent on MC only makes MM.
MM has a midrange and bass advantage over MC IMHO. Where MC has a more 3D stage and a better and more open top end in my experience.
Yesterday a good friend who is a carridget freak recommended Miyajima over the ones I mentioned. His ref was Koetsu for many many years now Miyajima. What to do.
S. Clark talk away here no problem about any cart.
charles
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FWIW, really like my Ortofon Quintet Bronze MC.
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I have and still own a Linn Arkiv and Micro Benz so I know what MC can offer. Using a Gold Note Boboli a HO MC as we speak. The Linn is .15mv a tough load. The Benz needs re-tipping. Thought about re-tipping Benz however not sure if worth it.
The Audio Hungary Qualiton phono has both MM [ 40db ] and MC [ 62 db ]. Do not want to use a step up transformer. I was always curious as to why Grado who has patent on MC only makes MM.
MM has a midrange and bass advantage over MC IMHO. Where MC has a more 3D stage and a better and more open top end in my experience.
Yesterday a good friend who is a carridget freak recommended Miyajima over the ones I mentioned. His ref was Koetsu for many many years now Miyajima. What to do.
S. Clark talk away here no problem about any cart.
charles
Charles, I would retip the Benz. Their carts are great. Even the cheap Benz is over $1000. Very Musical cart
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I have the Kleos and would never go back to MM again.
Well then I must get the Kleos. I missed my opportunity on the Atlas for 4K used for 100 hours. :drool: Dam. :duh :duh :duh :duh
charles
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So is it universal that none of us wants a MM on our tonearms?
My Dyna 20x2L and my Blackbird are not on the high end of MC, but they slaughter any MM that I've heard.
ARE there any MM that compete in the $1K and up range?
Sorry to take your thread a bit astray, Charles.
I have owned the Monster Alfa 1 and 2. I preferred the 1 due to No high frequency zing.
Right now, I am using the Accutex 320 lll STR (brick type) and have no desire to change it. Extremely open, dynamic, flat response to theoretical 45khz, although cable and other capacitances limit to ~35khz right now. Problems are both the cartridge and needle are not manufactured, so used sparingly.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/acutex/m320.shtml
Near bottom of page below is description of the "perfect" STR needle.
http://www.turntableneedles.com/assets/images/eprod/acutex/acutex_cartridges.pdf
cheers
steve
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Cool Steve. BUMMER. It appears that both the Delos and Kleos are out of stock at the US distributor. Waiting sucks.
charles
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Cool Steve. BUMMER. It appears that both the Delos and Kleos are out of stock at the US distributor. Waiting sucks.
charles
Hi Charles,
I hear you. I wish someone would pickup production of this cartridge and perfect STR needle. Last I heard some are replacing their needles with elliptical. Arg.
Besides lower overall cost, all the parameters pertaining to the sonics are just superb. Of course, the $200 cartridge, late 70s, would probably sell for $2000 now. I hate inflation.
cheers
steve
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Apparently Mike Fremer said the Kleos is the best "value" in the Lyra line, gives you near-everything at a price well below the Atlas without losing much that their flagship provides. Of course, value is always a relative term. it's still expensive.
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Yes expensive at list price. It was suggested I look at the Kuzma line. It appears the Kuzma CAR40 & CAR50 might have an edge on Lyra. Shhhh ! It mates with my arm very well to boot. Using a Kuzma Stogi S 12" arm.
charles
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choices, choices :rofl:
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choices, choices :rofl:
Thank goodness.
charles
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Still love my Shure Ultra500 cartridge with the original Shure stylus.
See them on Ebay periodically and Jico makes the microridge stylus replacements.
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After thinking about spending crazy money on a new Cart I have decided not to. Why ? After listening to my LPs and same CDs I have concluded Analog has one advantage. Small but evident. LPs deliver a more 3D stage. That is it in my experience. Digital is quieter, same tonality and harmonics. Bass is better with Digital as well.
But, but I could have better than before ?? Well slightly and for the money spent maybe not smart. The Cart I have a Golden Note Boboli MM suits me well. I have no issues with Cart. So with that in mind decided instead to try another phono stage.
Using a SS Creek SE with outboard power supply. MM 44db and MC 70db. An overachiever that never got its due. Just got in an Audio Hungary Qualiton tubed phono a two box affair with MM and optional MC card. To be continued. www.audiohungary.com
charles
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Doug thanks for input. I was not clear as to the Phono I use. I stated Creek SE only because I could not remember the Creek model. It is the Creek Wyndsor SS Phono-preamp with outboard power supply. Totally adjustable, gain, Cap, load. Both MM and MC. The cart is a Golden Note Boboli. $1200 when available The Boboli is a neutral affair. The Creek is a neutral affair. Both detailed. So was thinking that a rich character cart. may be a better solution.
So my choice of a new cart to match Creek OR new phono to match Boboli. With the arrival of the Audio Hungary phono preamp an all tubed unit with outboard SS power supply the game is on. When my Sinus condition goes away I can compare phonos and make a decision, then a decision can be made. The Qualiton phono is $4700 list plus $500 for MC card. The Cart I'm considering is either $3600 or 6K.
Why ? Is the real question for me. With a State of the Art Digital front end that compares quite well with my analog rig is it worth it. Only I can answer that I guess. However suggestions never hurt.
charles
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Doug thanks for input. I was not clear as to the Phono I use. I stated Creek SE only because I could not remember the Creek model. It is the Creek Wyndsor SS Phono-preamp with outboard power supply. Totally adjustable, gain, Cap, load. Both MM and MC. The cart is a Golden Note Boboli. $1200 when available The Boboli is a neutral affair. The Creek is a neutral affair. Both detailed. So was thinking that a rich character cart. may be a better solution.
So my choice of a new cart to match Creek OR new phono to match Boboli. With the arrival of the Audio Hungary phono preamp an all tubed unit with outboard SS power supply the game is on. When my Sinus condition goes away I can compare phonos and make a decision, then a decision can be made. The Qualiton phono is $4700 list plus $500 for MC card. The Cart I'm considering is either $3600 or 6K.
Why ? Is the real question for me. With a State of the Art Digital front end that compares quite well with my analog rig is it worth it. Only I can answer that I guess. However suggestions never hurt.
charles
Charles - Perhaps you might try to find a used high end MC cartridge (such as Lyra)... Once you "re-calibrate" your ears with analogue, you'll definitely notice something is "missing", when converting digital to analogue, even on a high end digital rig...
My $0.02,
Pete
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Certainly a consideration. Jury still out. Thanks guys.
charles
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Grado has perked my interest with its Ref 3 and Aeon Cart. Movig Iron. I have a new phono stage, The Audio Hungary Qualition. Tubed with outboard SS power supply. MM and MC boards.
Either back to MC with Lyra OR MI with Grado.
charles
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Nothing wrong with SUTs at all. just need the right one. The better ones are costly. Considering a MI as grado holds the patent on MC however does not sell them. Interesting.
charles
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Now the Grado Statement is on the short list. I need to get out of this F'n house already before I bankrupt myself with Audio. At least Lps will sound better.
charles
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Now there is a Grado Statement 3 which I seriously considered. Its about half the price of the Koetsu at $3500. I am just coming from a Grado Reference 2 which totally blew away all of my expectations. It was a great cartridge. BTW, The Grados are neither mm nor mc but mi, moving iron. Joe Grado invented moving coil. The family owns the patents yet they build only mi carts. Soundsmith also builds only moving iron. Peter Lederman in one of the seminars on YouTube shows a photo the smallest coil of any mc cart next to the largest moving part of any mi cart they make. The mc has 5x more mass.
The whole thrust of cartridge evolution is toward less moving mass. I haven't heard them all of course but simply based on theory I believe mi is the pinnacle of current cartridge engineering. There is a reason Grado owns mc and collects royalties on every mc built within the reach of US patent law yet they build only mi carts. More than one reviewer has proclaimed the Grado Epoche to be the best cartridge ever made. The Statement 3 is the same design with less exotic parts.
Back to Soundsmith....My next cartridge is a Soundsmith Paua. It is similar to the Grado Statement 3 in that it is also third from the top, is the same design as the flagship with less exotic parts and is a similar price. $4K, currently on sale for $3K. The one thing Soundsmith offers that made the sale to me is very affordable rebuilds. <20% of cost of cart for cart to made like new. I won't be looking to upgrade in 3 or 4 years......or ever.
Ah is it nobler to choose MM or MC. The hunt is on. Looking at Grado Statement2 or Koetsu Urishi, Lyra Kleos or Kiseiki. Using an Audio Hungary tubed phono with both MM and MC cards. Arm is Kuzma 12" VTA adj. Any input ???
charles
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Good to know thank you.
charles
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AT ART9 would please
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AT ART9 would please
Thanks Bill, good to see you posting again.
charles
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The Hunt has ended. Had to wrestle the beast to the ground. The beast being my digital rig. The beast won. So no expensive new cart. Actually none at all. Maybe a Hana however LPs now are only for music I do not have on CD.
charles