Author Topic: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole  (Read 6823 times)

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6982
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« on: June 09, 2021, 12:24:55 PM »
  I see so many systems consisting of VG expensive gear improperly set up. Drives me NUTS. Speakers with ports against the wall, speakers too large, distance from walls not equal. Fireplaces, couches, furniture in the way. Glass furniture and other harmful reflective surfaces.
  I say examine room for weakness and strengths. Then purchase the right speaker for that set up. If you have to put a speaker against or close to a wall forget the ported one.
   Once a speaker is chosen then select an amp to match it. Then put the rest of your money on the best source you can afford. Fine tune it with cabling. :duh

charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline P.I.

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 1922
  • Silence is that blackness beneath the music
    • P.I. audio group, LLC
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2021, 12:38:05 PM »
  I see so many systems consisting of VG expensive gear improperly set up. Drives me NUTS. Speakers with ports against the wall, speakers too large, distance from walls not equal. Fireplaces, couches, furniture in the way. Glass furniture and other harmful reflective surfaces.
  I say examine room for weakness and strengths. Then purchase the right speaker for that set up. If you have to put a speaker against or close to a wall forget the ported one.
   Once a speaker is chosen then select an amp to match it. Then put the rest of your money on the best source you can afford. Fine tune it with cabling. :duh

charles
What you said.  The room is an interconnect
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 03:06:10 PM by P.I. »
"A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument." - Hilmar von Campe

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 12088
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2021, 10:19:40 PM »
I too cringe when I see a system set up in such a fashion that it cannot put it's best foot forward.  but unfortunately there are a lot of people who do not have the luxury of a dedicated audio space that they can do with what they please. When you are forced to put your system in a shared space that usually involves compromises in the way that the room is set up because of the other people involved and the other ways that the space is used. No self respecting audiophile would choose to put a couch or a glass table in a spot that would be detrimental to the sound. But if you are in a shared space you often have no choice. Even when you are moving into a new house it is rare that you will be decorating the space from scratch , so you will also have the additional obstacle of setting up the system around furniture that you already own.

And I do know this from first hand experience. After having a dedicate audio room in the basement for 30 years where I put what I wanted where I wanted it and had free reign to place any kind of acoustic  treatment where ever I wanted, I moved into a house where the only plausible place to put my system was in the Living Room, the first place people see when they walk into the house. This lead to a number of changes to my system that I never would have made had I still had my own space. For example there was not a single place in the room where Ii could have put my big ARC VT-200 tube amp without tripping over it and yes, the speakers are located closer to the wall than I would have placed them if the room was bigger. But sometime you just have to do what you have to do.

I could have thrown caution to the wind and just set things up they way I felt was best for audio, but then it would have been hard to say that the system sounded better for it when I couldn't listen to it at all after being thrown out of the house.  :rofl:

So when you see a system that is set up "poorly" is is often not that the owner improperly set up the gear, but rather he did the best he could given the situation he had to deal with.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline StereoNut

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1890
  • So much great music, so little time!
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2021, 11:32:23 AM »
The good 'ol WAF strikes again!  :duh

SN
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

• Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
• N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Amp
• Bolder/EE Minimax DAC
• Cambridge D-500SE CDP
• Von Schweikert 2012 Mod.VR-4 Gen.III speakers
• VPI Prime/Soundsmith MMP3/DV20x2H
• T.W.L

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 12088
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2021, 01:03:59 PM »
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2021, 01:09:36 PM »
The good 'ol WAF strikes again!  :duh

SN

Yep….  :lol: :thumb:
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline James Edward

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 776
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2021, 01:29:28 PM »
Until he got to the glass furniture part, I thought Charles was writing about my room! Mine is as well set up as can be while still taking aesthetics into account. I am the neatnik in the house, and as much as I know/believe that 23 foot speaker wire is compromising the sound, so be it.
Having said that, I have spent many years and dollars fighting a very unbalanced room. Small speakers were no match for bass leakage into other rooms, and large speakers overloaded the closed corner side of the room. Using open baffle speakers and a sealed sub has been a good compromise.
A dedicated room is of course ideal, but I do thoroughly enjoy being able to cook, putter around the house, and read the paper while cranking the stereo out from the living room.
Luxman L- 590 AX MK2
Esoteric K-07X
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB
Audience Au24SE
PI Cat6
Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S
Stereo Hsu ULS-15 Mk2
Supra Classic 6.0

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2021, 06:17:28 PM »
Until he got to the glass furniture part, I thought Charles was writing about my room! Mine is as well set up as can be while still taking aesthetics into account. I am the neatnik in the house, and as much as I know/believe that 23 foot speaker wire is compromising the sound, so be it.
Having said that, I have spent many years and dollars fighting a very unbalanced room. Small speakers were no match for bass leakage into other rooms, and large speakers overloaded the closed corner side of the room. Using open baffle speakers and a sealed sub has been a good compromise.
A dedicated room is of course ideal, but I do thoroughly enjoy being able to cook, putter around the house, and read the paper while cranking the stereo out from the living room.

Well, you could be describing my living room. Glass coffee table in front of my listening chair, couch on that side close to the left speaker, four 2’ x 6’ glass panels on the left side of the living room wall allowing a view of the back yard. Not really able or even wanting to fix anything. I enjoy the aesthetics and am not going to put up a draw curtain on the living room glass wall or create fitted, removable panels to put into place and then remove each listening session. I live alone and have the ability to do anything acoustically that I want. But there is a convenience factor, too. This won’t be the last place I live in and one of these days I’ll be able to have a dedicated listening room 🎶 :thumb:
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6982
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2021, 08:58:35 AM »
  Yes we all know there are trade offs for room, life style and other factors. What I am saying is the choices made need more scrutiny. One does not put a ported speaker against a wall as an example. Buy a speaker designed to go against the wall.
  Match the amp to speaker, obtain best source you can. Keep it simple.

charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2021, 10:37:04 AM »
  Yes we all know there are trade offs for room, life style and other factors. What I am saying is the choices made need more scrutiny. One does not put a ported speaker against a wall as an example. Buy a speaker designed to go against the wall.
  Match the amp to speaker, obtain best source you can. Keep it simple.

charles

I understand your point, Charles. I’m close to trying some acoustic treatments behind the speakers, just wondering if it’s worth the effort due to the exposed glass that I don’t want to treat,
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6982
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2021, 01:54:45 PM »
  Yes we all know there are trade offs for room, life style and other factors. What I am saying is the choices made need more scrutiny. One does not put a ported speaker against a wall as an example. Buy a speaker designed to go against the wall.
  Match the amp to speaker, obtain best source you can. Keep it simple.

charles

I understand your point, Charles. I’m close to trying some acoustic treatments behind the speakers, just wondering if it’s worth the effort due to the exposed glass that I don’t want to treat,


  Thanks appreciate that Was not trying to put down anyone as there are reasons. I like blinds for glass Can open , close partially open. Many options to improve sonic behavior.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline toobluvr

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2021, 02:28:59 PM »

You mean like this?  A $40k speaker jammed up against a wall of windows.  See it all the time.  Soooo ridiculous!   :roll:
Spkrs: Sunny Cable Tech, Reynaud, Zu, Klipsch, Gallo subs, Wharfedale
TT1: Townshend Rock 3/OL Silver Mk3A
TT2: OL Aurora/OL Encounter Mk3C
Carts: Soundsmith Zephyr,  Music Maker 3, Dynavector xx2-Mk2, Shelter 501
complete: see Sunnydaze system on AC

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2021, 03:11:41 PM »

You mean like this?  A $40k speaker jammed up against a wall of windows.  See it all the time.  Soooo ridiculous!   :roll:

It’s a beautiful view, though   :lol:
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline toobluvr

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2021, 03:18:18 PM »

You mean like this?  A $40k speaker jammed up against a wall of windows.  See it all the time.  Soooo ridiculous!   :roll:

It’s a beautiful view, though   :lol:

 :rofl:
Spkrs: Sunny Cable Tech, Reynaud, Zu, Klipsch, Gallo subs, Wharfedale
TT1: Townshend Rock 3/OL Silver Mk3A
TT2: OL Aurora/OL Encounter Mk3C
Carts: Soundsmith Zephyr,  Music Maker 3, Dynavector xx2-Mk2, Shelter 501
complete: see Sunnydaze system on AC

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6982
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: Trying to Put a Round peg in a Square Hole
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2021, 12:53:39 PM »

You mean like this?  A $40k speaker jammed up against a wall of windows.  See it all the time.  Soooo ridiculous!   :roll:


  YES and on top of Subs besides.

charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.