Author Topic: Impressions - Four DACs  (Read 13741 times)

miklorsmith

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Impressions - Four DACs
« on: October 07, 2007, 07:48:39 PM »
Recently, thanks to the generosity of a certain Lone Wolf, I had the opportunity to borrow a couple of DACs.  These were a Turbomod Electrocompaniet ECD-1 from Empirical Audio and an MHDT Laboratory Paradisea, stock except for a Bendix 396 tube.  I also had my own DACs available, an Altmann Attraction with all the options and a Lessloss 2004.  For transports, I used a CEC TL-51X, modified Rega Planet, and an RWA-modded Squeezebox 3.  The CEC and modded Rega allow clock-linking with the Lessloss.

The rest of the system is a Lamm LL2 Deluxe, RWA Signature 70 amps, and Zu Definition Pro speakers.  Cables are mostly by Zu.

I didn't have any particular methodology for this comparison.  For probably 6 weeks, I spent roughly equal time with all four, changing every few days or so.  This was never intended to be a formal comparison but I thought it might be useful to have something written up since I don't know of any comparisons of these four music machines.

Just for fun, I'll list these in order from "most non-oversampling sound" to "most oversampling sound".

Paradisea

Out of these four, the Paradisea is about light touch.  It is nimble and evenhanded.  It makes “pretty” sound but isn’t mushy or overly tubey.

In my experience, NOS DACs can have weaknesses in:  dynamic contrast, frequency extension, instrumental separation, focus, and resolution.

Normal NOS strengths:  Singularity of voice, lyrical flow, un-digital presentation.

The Paradisea is good with frequency extension, instrumental separation, and focus.  I thought ultimate resolution was not as good as the other DACs here and dynamic contrast was a little flat.  It was excellent with all the usual strengths, sounding musical always without a hint of digital edge.  Midrange tonality is good, but maybe not quite as deeply saturated as the others.  I would not recommend this DAC for detail junkies or those that like energetic sounds.  It is a little polite, which could be good or bad, depending on system needs.

Attraction

This one has had quite a bit of virtual ink spilled over it.  I thought it was more resolved and dynamic than the Paradisea but less so than the oversampling units.  It has fewer compromises than any of the NOS DACs I’ve heard but maintains their strengths.  It still is not the rocker’s choice, as bass is lighter and less defined than with either the Lessloss or Empirical.  Treble extension is good but again, gives up something to the OS units. 

The Attraction pays dividends with excellent midrange tonality, a cohesive sonic fabric, clean and extended treble though not as airy as the oversampling units.  Overall, better than the Paradisea but also considerably more expensive.

Lessloss

I’m a little tired of writing about the Lessloss, as I’ve done a lot of it over the last few weeks.  Suffice to say that in my system, it is hugely dynamic, incredibly extended but still smooth, and provides outstanding separation without apparent artificial boundaries.  It is clean and clear, without any obvious weaknesses.  There is a touch of hardness in the treble but it is slight and to me a reasonable tradeoff for its outstanding resolution.

Empirical Electrocompaniet

The Empirical is a mutha.  It seems to be bent on excavating every single musical pit.  While I can’t say I heard anything more with this DAC than, say, the Lessloss, it seemed more obviously resolved.  Instrumental separation was complete and dynamics most impressive, especially in the bass.  There were times when bass transients had my mouth agape.  If you’re a bass junkie, I can’t imagine you could do better with an add-on DAC.  Midrange tone is complex and seemed accurate – certainly solid state in presentation (duh) but the rest of my gear is a bit warm and this was not a problem.

The penalties for such an assertive approach are more “digital” in the treble range and a seeming isolation between performers in the band.  I don’t want to overstate these criticisms, as they are minor.  My system is very dynamic and tends toward edgy.  These concerns would likely not even show up on a system with a mellower voice but the lively, resolved sound would be most welcome.

Conclusion

In my system, the clock-linked Lessloss is my favorite of these four.  In the good/bad ledger, it has almost no downsides.  Even without the clock-linking I like it a lot.  If my system were different, I might choose any of the other three.  With metal tweeters, either of the NOS DACs might win out and with mellower systems, the Empirical might prove best.  I just received a 1st generation pair of Omega’s Hemptone 8”ers that I dropped in my 45 liter bass reflex boxes and MAN, these are SWEET.  Treble is pretty laid back but their voice is punchy and cohesive.  I bet the Empirical to a good pre/amp would kick serious tail with these.  Alas, I don’t have it any more.

Thanks, Chris.  I had a lot of fun with these boxes and hope this short writeup gives some idea of relative qualities.  Yep, I liked every one of them and could live with any in the long term.  Wishy washy me.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 08:22:17 AM by miklorsmith »

Offline Carlman

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Re: Impressions - Four DACs
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2007, 07:58:05 AM »
Mike,
I felt like I could relate to what you were hearing... Great write-up.  I wish I could've thrown in the Scott Nixon DAC into the mix to see where it faired.  I'm hoping I'll get a chance to compare it to the Attraction when Rich gets his... I definitely liked the sound of the Attraction... So, I expect somewhat similar 'wishy-washy' results to yours. ;)

BTW, Do you know if there will be any non-OS DAC's at RMAF?  I need to start planning what I'm going to do there.

Thanks for the excellent write-up.

-Carl
I really enjoy listening to music.

miklorsmith

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Re: Impressions - Four DACs
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2007, 08:31:23 AM »
Comparing two things can be tough, doing it with four was a bear!  Yeah, yeah, cry me a river.   :D

It might not have seemed it, but my biggest surprise of the bunch was the Paradisea.  It's a very sweet sounding box.  I hate bringing up price, but it was literally a THIRD of the price of the next cheapest.  I can see why it got so much buzz a little while back.

I don't know about NOS DACs at the show.  Aren't some of the big bux Japanese machines NOS?  I assume there will be some there.  It would be interesting to hear show reports if somebody prominent like Wilson decided to show with NOS - it could set the digital world on fire!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 09:07:35 AM by miklorsmith »

Offline Carlman

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Re: Impressions - Four DACs
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2007, 09:04:08 AM »
I totally understand about comparing boxes... I compared about the same number of preamps a couple of years ago... You can go insane, especially if you try to do it in a short time.  Living with them for some time is the best way to go... The 'new' wears off, you forget all the weird preconceptions, and the real character shines through. 

I haven't had a chance to look into who's bringing what to the show.  I'm just hoping to hang in the Bolder room for some cool demo's and with Bill at Morningstar at some point... And of course secure a comfy seat at the bar. ;)

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

WEEZ

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Re: Impressions - Four DACs
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 04:43:56 PM »
Nice write up, Mike!

Did you notice any significant differences with any of the transports you used? Just curious.

WEEZ

miklorsmith

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Re: Impressions - Four DACs
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2007, 07:25:49 AM »
I can't say I noticed differences between the transports but I made a conscious decision not to try.  Just getting time with all the DACs was a mission in itself.  I did some comparisons with the clock-linked vs. not on the Lessloss and there is some additional focus allowed by going that way.  Everything is just a bit more organized.

The CEC transport is killer.  Having the clock link as a native feature is very cool.  Plus, it's a freaking tank!  It's almost unbelievable at $1,300.  It must weigh at least ten pounds more than the Rega it replaces.

Mostly, my pattern was to have the Lessloss hooked up to the Rega or CEC and one of the other DACs running off the SB3.  I did do CD transports to the other DACs as well to make sure I wasn't introducing an unintended variable.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 01:17:10 PM by miklorsmith »

WEEZ

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Re: Impressions - Four DACs
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2007, 01:07:33 PM »
Thanks, Mike. Like I said, I was just wondering.

WEEZ

(yeah, my CEC is at least as heavy as my power amp :lol:)

jrebman

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Re: Impressions - Four DACs
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2007, 09:50:33 AM »
Mike,

A little late to the party here, but very nice write up.  Was the Paradisea one of the "plus" versions?  I'm not actually sure what the "plus" is for except for maybe a USB input, and maybe some upgraded caps/op amps?

Carl, I know the Audio Note room will have a NOS DAC -- as that's all they make, and do it very well IMO.  I'm sure they'll be showing the 4.1x, which is mighty expensive, but there are kits available, and you can even get into an entry level AN DAC for less than $1000.

Mike, does that CEC player have a wordclock feature?  If not, how did you get that done -- was it a custom job?  I wonder how this machine would compare to the CEC 3300.

-- Jim

miklorsmith

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Re: Impressions - Four DACs
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2007, 10:26:48 AM »
Thanks!

I don't think the Paradisea was a "+", but it could have been.  I don't know all their feature-sets, as it was just a complimentary loaner from a fellow gearhead.

That's interesting about Audio Note.  I've read they have an odd history with Kondo and still some possible connection that I don't really understand.  I absolutely believe their stuff would be great and I'd love to hear it.

The CEC does have a native clock input, but it's a superclock input.  I don't know whether it's a combination with wordclock.  The only things I know about the difference is that wordclock is based on the primary signal frequency, i.e. 44.1 khz and superclock is based on the primary clock signal itself, which is in the megahertz range.  Lessloss prefers superclock and that's the "standard" for their DAC but they do offer wordclock output at a nominal upcharge.

The Rega transport I have, which was modded by Lessloss to include the clock input function, uses an RCA connector.  The CEC uses a 9-pin connection, so a specialized cable would be needed to use it, which luckily I had.   :D

I know the Transporter uses wordclock and there are others.  In fact, I think this is the more common solution.

I have no idea how this CEC transport would compare with their pricier stuff.  I have to say I was very impressed, as the machine is really put together well.  I like the top-loading drawer and craftsmanship is top notch.  Chris Own of Ack! once told me they make some of the best transports in the business.  Having now handled one, I can see why he said it.

jrebman

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Re: Impressions - Four DACs
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2007, 11:47:14 AM »
Mike,

The CEC 3300 costs something like $700 and is supposed to be exceptional for the money.  No belt drive on this one though.

Looks like another piece of gear that I should truy to track down at RMAF.

-- Jim