Re: Dave's IC's

[DaveC]

Hi Nick,

Thanks for checking them out and take your time. 

[Nick B]

Well,  I've heard enough to write a review. You only need to stare at a pretty girl for so long to realize the obvious...that she is indeed pretty. And Dave's cables are also indeed very pretty.

My system consists of:

DNA Deluxe 1.0 ss amp recently upgraded to gold level by Steve McCormack.
SP Tech Timepiece 2.1 speakers upgraded to 3.0 level by Bob Smith
Rich's DIY Buffalo 32 dac which he kindly lent me and which I will be buying
Squeezebox 2 with modded analog out and with dedicated ps by Anthony Padilla of Maui Mods 
Grover Huffman IC's (about 6 years old and who knows what version they might be)
Gregg Straley speaker cables

My turntable is not up and running yet, so this was thru the Buffalo dac only. The artists I mainly used were Nana Mouskouri, Daniel O'Donnell, Erich Kunzel, Enya, Mannheim Steamroller, Kenny G, Freddy Quinn, Nat King Cole, Charlotte Church, Karen Carpenter and various ballroom dance recordings (my wife and I love to dance)

Like a kid in a candy store, I just couldn't wait. So I popped in what I thought would be Dave's best IC's, the DD's. They did not disappoint. The soundstage improved in width and depth. There was a more realistic presentation of singers and instruments. The resolving capability was outstanding and some recordings had a wonderfully holographic sound. In a word, this IC was magic. It also was quieter...by far. I have been continually complaining about digital nastiness, an edge to the music. I have thought about AC conditioning etc. But it seems that the Grover's maybe were picking up noise.

Years ago, I had some Music Metre silver IC's and speaker cable and the sound was so sibilant and harsh. It seems the cabling was all unshielded and even when Jim from Music Metre wrapped the silver braided wire with foil tape (his method of shielding), it just didn't improve things. So when Dave's DD's also lowered the noise floor so much, I was very pleasantly surprised.

I listened for a few days savoring my good fortune before I put in the D2's. I will chalk this up a bit to listening fatigue, but I didn't like the D2's nearly as much that night. A bit of the “magic” was gone from my living room. I went to bed  and then did some more listening the next day. The D2 does so many things right. It is very neutral, very accurate. The tonal quality was quite good. But I still preferred the DD's. I am fortunate now in that my system is suddenly so revealing. The DD's just are a better fit for me. In re-reading the old posts regarding the tour, Dave  asked whether to include his speaker cables and I am sure glad he did. If I thought the DD's were magic, adding the speaker cable put it over the top. I was actually very surprised that Dave's bested the Straley's by so much.... in every category you can imagine. Not only was the soundstage large and deep, but the placement of instruments and singers was just more realistic. The timbre on the instruments...the breathiness of some vocals. I have never heard violins, pianos, guitars, cymbals and drums sound so natural, so organic, in my system. I have carried some of these discs to shows and So California dealers some years ago and they never sounded as good as they do now in my system.

When I first put in the speaker cables, the sound kind of darkened a bit...there was so much more texture and lushness to the sound. I am not talking euphonic at all. Just that there was more of a presence with it in. The increase in resolution was amazing considering how much the DD's improved things. Things were also quieter. I had to get up from my chair repeatedly to keep inching up the volume. At least 80% of the harshness in my system was now gone. Recordings that I had hopelessly given up for poor quality suddenly sounded much better. I listened to some old Motown stuff..the Four Tops etc. Even these previously dull and 2 dimensional recordings had life breathed back into them. I am so thankful that I listened to both the IC and speaker cable. The combination is just wonderful in my system. The way things stand now, it will be much easier to audition equipment and cabling in the future. I plan to enjoy this a bit more and let the new sound etch into my brain. I will then add the D2's back in and also the jumpers. Before I began this audition, I was very skeptical that jumpers would make any difference in my system. After what I've just heard, I am much more open to that idea. But besting anything that Bob Smith did would be quite an achievement.

I don't know when I'll be able to re-do the D2's or the test the jumpers. Hopefully tomorrow, otherwise I have to go out of town this Friday and won't be back until next Tuesday. I would like to keep them til next Thursday or so if possible. Then send them along to the next lucky guy.

[DaveC]

Thanks for the review Nick, I appreciate it.   

I like your description of the speaker cables, they are very detailed without adding extra warmth or body that reduces resolution, and they also don't add any harshness that causes listening fatigue. I think some folks won't like the reduction in warmth, body, bloom, etc... but that's distortion and the added resolution you get when it's gone is more to my personal preferences in how I'd like my system to sound. Goes to show how much synergy and personal preference count for almost everything.

Feel free to keep them until you are back after the weekend, you can send them on end of the week you return or beginning of the next week.

 

[sleepyguy24]

I can't write much at this time but these cables should go over to bpape ASAP after NickB is done so he can demo them to an even wider audience.

[Nick B]

I am leaving town in a couple of hours and will be back next Tues and likely keep them through next Wed or Thurs if that is OK with Dave. I do want to keep the tour moving as well. I didn't get a chance to try the jumpers yet and definitely want to do that. I will hate to give them up....
Oh, Bpape can you PM me your address as well ?

[DaveC]

Hi Nick, no problem keepimg them. I think mdfoy might be next, brian is last so he can keep them for longer.

[Nick B]

I have added the jumpers and was listening this evening. Excellent sounding. Will have my final thoughts posted within a few days.

Mdfoy, can you PM me your address as Dave says you're next?

[dflee]

I am looking forward to listening to the equipment (sometime) in the future. I only hope that everyone has taken good care of these cables so I can get full effects from what they have to offer.

Don

[Nick B]

Don,
The cables arrived in excellent condition and I have handled with care as well. If you are able to audition, they should be in great shape and you are likely in for quite a treat.
On another note re the tour, I should be able to ship tomorrow and will post my final thoughts as well.

[Nick B]

final thoughts regarding Dave's cables

Well, I have lived with them for a couple of weeks and it's been an extremely enjoyable experience. The final configuration is the DD IC's, his speaker cables and the jumpers. 

1) they have a much lower noise floor compared to what I currently have
2) they resolve beautifully and appear to very accurately place the singers and instruments in the soundstage
3) they are very neutral and very natural sounding
4) the texture of instruments was wonderful - I've never heard guitars, cymbals and pianos sound better
5) the decay of cymbals was excellent
6) on the appropriate recordings, the sense of a holographic presentation was outstanding
7) if I were to grade the improvement in my system at 100%, adding the DD's contributed 30-40% and adding the speaker cables and jumpers added another 60-70%. 

I never did try the D1's. I started out with the DD's. From there, it's really hard to try anything else. I did put the D2's back in, but preferred the "magic" of the DD's. Maybe the D2's are a bit more accurate, but heck, I really don't care. I've only used silver IC's once before and that was maybe 20 years ago. Although very revealing, that brittle and harsh sound was tough to listen to.

The jumpers made a difference! Guess I shouldn't have been surprised. With Dave's jumpers in, I thought there was more texture to the music...aka...it didn't sound as thin. I also thought the jumpers resolved more and presented a slightly more 3 dimensional and accurate (or should I say pleasing) soundstage. I don't know what the the SP Tech jumpers are made of, but they are "U" shaped and pivot to allow the spades to connect to both binding posts. So at the bottom of the "U", there are 2 rivet-like points where the jumpers swivel and I wonder if the minimal contact areas affect the sound.

This is by far the best sound I've had in the 20+ years I've been in audio. Admittedly, I've played very little vinyl over the years and the dac's I've used have been so-so. I never could bring myself to pay a lot of money for a dac with the technology changing so often. I've been very fortunate to have my system upgraded recently with the McCormack DNA 1.0 gold version and Rich's Buffalo 32 dac here to audition Dave's cables.

Dave, I really appreciate you allowing me to take part in the tour. I kept them a few days longer than anticipated and it's very hard to part with them now. I have been trying to sell my stereo cabinet and therefore can't make a commitment to buy anything right now. Once sold, I plan on buying 2 stands and I should be able to get by with either a 3/4 or 1 meter IC pair. Rather than my 12' speaker cables, I would think that maybe 8' would suffice. As a final thought, I'd be very curious indeed to hear that new silver/gold wire that you recently mentioned.

Thanks!
Nick   

PS  I will ship tomorrow and PM Mike ..  mdfoy with the details

[DaveC]

Hi Nick,

Thanks for taking the time to write up such a thorough review, I appreciate it!

I'm happy the cables worked out for you and provided an improvement in your system as well. I haven't heard the SP Tech speakers but from the reviews I've read they are very accurate, it seems like they would be right up my alley, I would love to hear them sometime. 

Lets make sure Mike is ready to receive the cables, sending out a pm now...

[Nick B]

Dave,
It was my pleasure to audition and write the review. I already mailed them today via UPS ground. Today is Columbus day and UPS was open and cheaper to ship ground for $44 and $1100 insurance. I couldn't afford to ship other than ground. Would have been twice the money and I've got upcoming medical bills and a commitment to buy Rich's dac. So sorry about that. It will arrive next Monday
Nick

will provide tracking # later

[DaveC]

Nick, no problem and ground shipping is fine, it is expensive enough as it is! Thanks for arranging to get them to Mike, makes my life easier too. 

[mdfoy]

DaveC

I got the cables from NickB today.  I will keep you posted in my findings.   

[DaveC]

Glad you got them Mike!      

NickB, also just realized I forgot to answer your question about the Noetech silver/gold cable. I have been testing it out and it's incredibly good. It accomplishes some of the same feats as Duelund with silver. Both are not even close to what a run of the mill 4N silver wire sounds like, Duelund through a ribbon wire profile + a unique silk/mineral oil dielectric and Neotech through adding 1% gold to their UPOCC silver wire and using a PE dielectric which is better (and more expensive) than teflon.

The Neotech wire is also much more expensive than Duelund, about twice the price for the same gauge wire. I'm not using as heavy gauge as the Duelund wire is, but it still comes out to be a little more expensive + extra labor to braid the signal wire. It's double the price of Neotech UPOCC silver/teflon wire, which is also incredibly expensive. It'll have to be priced a little higher than the DD cable as well, probably $499.

In comparison to the DD, it is warmer and richer sounding while retaining all the positive qualities associated with silver, great frequency extension, very fast, detailed and clean. The tonality comes across as more "real to life" vs. any other wire I have tested. This is probably the world's best hook up wire right now, Mundorf and others have used alloy wires for a while now, but the Neotech wire is made using the Ohno Continuous Casting process, which makes for a huge improvement compared to conventionally drawn wire. It's a little more similar to the D2 than the DD but it is a huge improvement over the D2.

However, at this level of wire I believe system synergy and personal preference trump any differences I can describe between these cables. If your system is already on the warm/rich side the DD cable is probably a better bet, if you want a richer, warmer sound with a little more body then the Neotech silver/gold cable would be a better choice.

If people are uncertain of the choice between Duelund and Neotech I am trying to come up with a way to send out loaner cables. I will probably need to be paid via paypal, and I can keep it in paypal and issue a refund when I get the cables back. Does anyone have any other ideas how I can do a loaner program?

I would LOVE to braid some speaker cables out of the Neotech silver/gold alloy wire but it would cost thousands of dollars...    If anyone wants to order a Neotech s/g speaker cable I will do it for much less than the retail cost of the wire just so I can do it...