Altmann Group Buy?

[hometheaterdoc]

Since I don't really have a horse in this race (but was seriously considering getting one to play with... hey, I have Black Sand Cable power cords here because they're better than anything I've tried for the same money.  I'm not opposed to displaying and showing something I don't directly sell so I can show potential customers the best stuff to buy for the money and get satisfaction (and it helps out the little guy and makes me feel like I'm helping the industry a bit).  I'd even drawn out some plans for a case of sorts for the unit that my cabinet maker could put together for me.  It's so darn ugly in current form I couldn't show the unit as is.... aesthetics are important and this has about the lowest WAF of anything I've ever put in a listening room).  But with the above post about group buy pricing either:

a) the manufacturer is running rail thin margins on these things (unlikely given what it's made of and what appears to be there for the money) or

b) that's an.... ahem.... "disappointing" group buy deal (I originally had other words there and thought better of hitting "Post").  Just my opinion of course.....

[miklorsmith]

I wouldn't disagree at all, that's why I posed the question of whether we wish to continue.

15% is better than we'll get if we really want to buy the things but not enough to make an Agon sale even-steven if/when we want to sell.

These things are definitely not trophy-hunter material.

I don't have a stake in this either.  I wouldn't care if we decide not to proceed and if people want a nice piece at a discount that's great too.

[richidoo]

15% off over 5 total units, no further breaks.

Mike, thanks for contacting Charles about the GB.

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna buy DAC and maybe amp anyway, so I'm glad to get any discount. I think the popularity will continue to increase and Charles will continue to raise the price to match his production speed with demand.

I assume the BYOB amplifiers are included in the count?
Rich

[lonewolfny42]

As they say..."a penny saved is a penny earned", so 15% off is better than nothing off.
And since I rarely sell anything, and these units scarcely show up on the used market, I'd still be interested in a GB.
It did sound good during my audition....

[miklorsmith]

Amps are included in the piece-count.

Do we want to go to the other boards and "advertise" the buy here?

Rich - I'll plan on you being the point man.

And, I guess we need to start tabulating who wants what.

[lonewolfny42]

Mike....
You might send a PM to those that auditioned the Altmann while it was on tour to see if their interested in a discounted GB...

                                            Chris

[richidoo]

I will ask Carl to make an emailbox for orders. I will post a GB thread when the apparatus is in place. I will post a spreadsheet with running order details.

A month is enough time right?

[miklorsmith]

You might send a PM to those that auditioned the Altmann while it was on tour to see if their interested in a discounted GB...

So right, and, done!

Thanks Rich, a month should be plenty of time.

[Carlman]

Cool, this is shaping up nicely.  I too am disappointed in the discount.. I was hoping for a sliding scale... 15 for 3, 20 for 5, 25 for more... etc... But I got to thinking that it may be that it just takes a long time to build each one regardless... So, building 5 doesn't get any economy of scale for Charles...

I do consider this one of the best sound DAC's I've heard, though.  And I was planning on building a case for it also... possibly AC options, etc... We'll see... I need to make the money first...  Which is tough to come by lately.

For the GB official thread, I'd like to see is a concrete list of products and the options we are buying.  Charles' site is informative but verbose... (and should be referenced in the GB)... but so should a simple list of products and options so we know exactly what we're ordering.  BTW, the email is setup.... byobgb+audionervosa.com.

And yes, Mike, I think there should be a link to AN's GB from anywhere you choose to link it... I think it's noteworthy in your final review that the demo tour sparked a group buy.

Thanks again for the opportunity to hear it!!!

-Carl

[miklorsmith]

Good ideas, Carl.  I suppose that is complimentary to the Tour that people liked it enough to buy.

I know of at least one experienced power supply builder that makes AC-based supplies specifically for the Altmann, Paul Hynes.  The one comment I saw about it was the owner liked the sound better than battery, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

Once I get the DAC back, I will be writing up a post mortem and I'll surely reference the group buy there.  And, I'll get Charles to write up the goods/options list for posting here.

[richidoo]

I'll prepare the thread when we hear back about the options, pricing, etc. I was reading that 17 page DAC thread on AC last night, where Paul Hynes chimed in back in April. Been meaning to look at his website. I do remember the interesting article on DACT website where their 12V power supply was compared to battery and trounced it in speed and noise. Of course that was not Optima, which should be expected to behave differently than typical SLA.

[Inscrutable]

Watching for the official GB thread. ... will decide by then, but leaning that way.

[richidoo]

I emailed Charles Altmann with some questions yesterday. As usual, his quick response was informative. His comments are interposed with my email. My comments are preceded by ">". In another separate response to this email, Charles voiced his concern about the shipping/insurance/duties issues. I have written back to him asking a few more detailed questions. I will publish that when I hear back from him.
Rich

> Hello Charles,

Hey Rich,,

> I am still deciding about the BYOB amplifier, so I hope you can answer
> another batch of questions. Hopefully I will be able to pass along the
> answers to others considering the DAC and BYOB amp.
>
> When the DAC and amp are playing together, do you recommend a preamplifier
> between them for current buffer?

No.

99,9% of all existing preamps cannot match the power of the Attraction DACs
output.

So there's a chance that you would not buffer the current, but take some
away

> Most <$1000 CD players improve with this,
> but the unrestricted current source of the battery power supply might
> obviate this need.

Try it out

> The DAC's output seemed just a little louder than the other DACs to which we
> compared it. Is the nominal output voltage typical ~2Vpp? Can you specify
> the DAC's output impedence?

the output voltage is about +/- 4 Volt peak to peak.
 
> What is the input impedence of the BYOB amplifier?

about 10 kOhm
 
> What is the available voltage gain of the amplifier using nominal 12VDC
> power supply?

don't know in numbers, but it is high gain.

> Is the potentiometer volume control on the BYOB very transparent, linear and
> balanced side to side?

The volume pot sounds very good. I balance them manually before I ship.

> Do you recommend using the onboard pot as primary
> volume control for the system, or as a fine tuning 'gain' adjustment with
> primary volume control on external preamp?

Its a volume control.

> Would the amp sound better with
> pot turned up higher to lower resistance in the signal path? Or is this just
> splitting hairs?

It will sound different.
 
> Is Optima yellow top battery appropriate to use with the DAC and amp? It is
> a deep cycle version.

The yellow top also works. I recommend the red top as there is no need for
deep cycling.

> Thank you Charles! Have a nice weekend!

You too

Charles
--
ALTMANN MICRO MACHINES

http://www.jitter.de
http://www.altmann.haan.de
http://www.mother-of-tone.com

Dipl.-Ing. Charles Altmann
Am Muehlenbusch 57
42781 Haan
Germany
tel: +49-2129-54260
fax: +49-2129-342555

[richidoo]

Here's some more info from Charles on the shipping/insurance situation. I would like to hear some creative ideas from the gear shipping gurus in our midst.
Thanks
Rich


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Altmann
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 6:48 AM
> Subject: Re: More BYOB questions
>
>
> Hi Rich,,
>
> some thoughts on your group buy.
>
> 1 Shipping:
>
> I normally ship standard air parcel.
>
> When a larger number of devices are shipped in one parcel, there is a higher
> risk of loss which I cannot cover.
>
> When the parcel is shipped more secure (i.e. Fedex) and is insured for the
> full value, upon US entry you will be charged customs and duty and your 15%
> discount will very easily eat up, which may leave your group-buyers a bit
> disappointed ...
>
> Charles

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Altmann
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: More BYOB questions

> Thanks Charles. Of course we want to achieve the lowest price possible but
> safety is also important. It is probably best to have you ship each order
> individually by your standard method to avoid customs fees and maximize
> safety. How would that affect your price/discount?

This would reduce your discount to 5% for an order qty 5+ with single
payment.

I think its really not worth the hassle ...

> Would the items still be
> insured against loss if air parcel is used?

To a limited degree, but I'll take the risk.

Charles

> Thanks!
> Rich
>
>

[Carlman]

Interesting.  He's not shipping batteries, right?  So, the little boards only weigh a few ounces each... let's say 8 oz.  I could easily construct a box with enough protection to ship 10 of these boards that withstand a shipment around the world.  I will gladly build this 'magical shipping box' and send it to Charles if that is what's required. 

There's no reason to ship any paperwork, all of it can be emailed and printed locally.

I would ship via FedEx Global Express, whatever is fastest.  My guess is the one box for shipping would be in the $100-150 range from Germany to the US.  I would get a quote from him.. it shouldn't cost much more than shipping 1 board this way.  I think we should split this shipping charge with Charles.

I would mark the package worth $583.16 for customs and call it "Circuit boards for audio equipment".

Yes, I know that they won't be insured for the whole amount but it's a risk I'd be willing to take with FedEx's priority air shipping.... because I don't think the risk is very high.

If all of the above doesn't work, I'd say Charles should drop ship each one.  And at that point, it's not really a group buy... It's a matter of buying from Charles.... So, if this is the best option, I'd just say order direct, mention AN and get a 5% discount.

-C