AudioNervosa
The Market => Group Buys, Groupons, and Tours => Topic started by: Carlman on March 27, 2007, 05:48:53 PM
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The long-awaited Grover Huffman Cable Group Buy is here! Hope everyone jumps on this great deal on an already oustanding value in interconnect cables. This group buy ends on April 20th.
This group buy will be a little different than the last so please read all details below:
Please post any questions you have about this group buy here, in this thread. Use the email address found below for ordering only. Please do not send emails asking if you can be included in the GB. If you are a member of this forum now, or become one, you can participate before April 20, 2007.
Below is the list of Grover's Interconnects (IC's) that are included in the group-buy and their regular price:
Length....................RCA.........XLR.........Digital RCA
.5m.......................$130........$195........$75
1m,.......................$150........$220........$90
1.5m,....................$170........$245........$105
2m,.......................$190........$270........$120
2.5m, cables…........$210........$295........$135
3m........................$230........$320........$150
Discounts
6 – 12 Cables 25% discount off the above pricing
13 – 30 Cables 30% discount off the above pricing
31+ Cables 35% discount off the above pricing
Payment and Shipping:
Shipping is $5 per pair up to 2 pairs, $2 per pair thereafter... (e.g. $10 for 2 pairs, $12 for 3, $14 for 4, etc.)
All orders must be placed (by sending to GroverGB@audionervosa.com) and money sent by April 20, 2007. (Paypal payments go to groupbuy@audionervosa.com)
To calculate your total:
1. Multiply Quantity of cable pairs by the price
2. Subtract discount
3. Add Quantity of cable pairs times $5 = shipping cost to get subtotal
4. Add 3% for Paypal Fee to get total payment.
Copy and past the following into an email and submit your order to GroverGB@AudioNervosa.com:
Full Name:
Address:
Cable Type and Termination: RCA pair or Digital ….. XLR or Single Ended
Length:
Cost per each:
Subtotal before discount (quantity times list price):
Subtract Discount (Subtotal - 25%):
Add Shipping ($5/pair):
Add Paypal (add 3% after adding shipping):
Total Payment:
Note: Paypal is the preferred payment method. Please copy and paste what you put in your email into the notes of the Paypal payment. All payments must be received by April 21. As an option, you can send your payment right now with a 25% discount assumption to groupbuy@audionervosa.com. I will refund any additional discounts when we finish the group buy. You will need to email me at the end to remind me.
I will send 1 order to Grover for all orders. In the US, I will distribute and ship all cables to the people who ordered them.
Outside the US, the cords will be drop-shipped directly by Grover.
Once I have received all the cables from Grover, I will post an update and let everyone know that I'll be shipping them. Please be patient.
Thanks,
Carl
PS If you absolutely cannot pay with Paypal, send a money order with the current discount so that I receive it by April 21st. Keep in mind that if the discount goes up, I won't be able to send you a refund for mailed payments.
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Email and Paypal, sent :D !
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The long-awaited Grover Huffman Cable Group Buy is here! Hope everyone jumps on this great deal on an already oustanding value in interconnect cables. This group buy ends on April 20th.
This group buy will be a little different than the last so please read all details below:
Please post any questions you have about this group buy here, in this thread. Use the email address found below for ordering only. Please do not send emails asking if you can be included in the GB. If you are a member of this forum now, or become one, you can participate before April 20, 2007.
Below is the list of Grover's Interconnects (IC's) that are included in the group-buy and their regular price:
Length....................RCA.........XLR.........Digital RCA
.5m.......................$130........$195........$75
1m,.......................$150........$220........$90
1.5m,....................$170........$245........$105
2m,.......................$190........$270........$120
2.5m, cables…........$210........$295........$135
3m........................$230........$320........$150
Discounts
6 – 12 Cables 25% discount off the above pricing
13 – 30 Cables 30% discount off the above pricing
31+ Cables 35% discount off the above pricing
Payment and Shipping:
Shipping is $5 per pair up to 2 pairs, $2 per pair thereafter... (e.g. $10 for 2 pairs, $12 for 3, $14 for 4, etc.)
All orders must be placed (by sending to GroverGB@audionervosa.com) and money sent by April 20, 2007. (Paypal payments go to groupbuy@audionervosa.com)
To calculate your total:
1. Multiply Quantity of cable pairs by the price
2. Subtract discount
3. Add Quantity of cable pairs times $5 = shipping cost to get subtotal
4. Add 3% for Paypal Fee to get total payment.
Copy and past the following into an email and submit your order to GroverGB@AudioNervosa.com:
Full Name:
Address:
Cable Type and Termination: RCA pair or Digital ….. XLR or Single Ended
Length:
Cost per each:
Subtotal before discount (quantity times list price):
Subtract Discount (Subtotal - 25%):
Add Shipping ($5/pair):
Add Paypal (add 3% after adding shipping):
Total Payment:
Note: Paypal is the preferred payment method. Please copy and paste what you put in your email into the notes of the Paypal payment. All payments must be received by April 21. As an option, you can send your payment right now with a 25% discount assumption to groupbuy@audionervosa.com. I will refund any additional discounts when we finish the group buy. You will need to email me at the end to remind me.
I will send 1 order to Grover for all orders. In the US, I will distribute and ship all cables to the people who ordered them.
Outside the US, the cords will be drop-shipped directly by Grover.
Once I have received all the cables from Grover, I will post an update and let everyone know that I'll be shipping them. Please be patient.
Thanks,
Carl
PS If you absolutely cannot pay with Paypal, send a money order with the current discount so that I receive it by April 21st. Keep in mind that if the discount goes up, I won't be able to send you a refund for mailed payments.
Carl,
you have great stamina(but I bet you hear that alot :oops: )
But seriously...which version Grovers are these i.e. silver or the silver/copper mix? And what about adding spk cables to the GB, as it will help to reach the 35% mark quicker. :idea:
b2
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Carl....Can you post a photo of the IC's.....thanks. :wink:
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Carl we should re-name you "above and beyond the call of duty"!
I will definately be a taker for a set of ic's but I would also like to know what version we're talking about. I believe the latest was u6?
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... and maybe a link to Grover's website?
Bryan
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As of last month, he didn't have a site. Supposedly waiting on a patent before he ramps up. He seems pretty popular on the web as it is right now! The genius underdog inventor with better and cheaper products than the establishment always has appeal.
I too would love to have another website full of products to covet. Just what I need!
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The genius underdog inventor with better and cheaper products than the establishment always has appeal.
Right on..."fight the power"!! :twisted:
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I will invite Grover to respond the questions about the type of IC's and speaker cables... but I know he wanted to keep it simple for the group buy.. which I appreciated... so this GB is for IC's only.
As to photos... someone took one at the last gathering... Stereophool? Was that you? If you send the photo to me, I'll gladly post it.
I just lent my 2 loaner pairs to a local friend to try so, I can't take a photo now. :( I should've done that... doh!
I agree a website would be nice... But Rich is correct.. he's waiting on a patent to do a website... How those things are related, I have no idea. But, it's nice to know one is coming regardless.
Thanks for the responses (and payments!) We're off to a good start.... already have 6 pair of cables. :)
-Carl
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Carl, I'll definitely get in on this Grover group buy but I'd like to second the request for including his speaker cables as well if possible. If not, I'll contact him separately on that.
P.S. Does anyone have any experience with his balanced ICs or digital IC?
Mike
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P.S. Does anyone have any experience with his balanced ICs or digital IC?
I don't know about digital ICs, but unless I grossly misunderstood his response to my query about (read "request for") balanced ICs, he doesn't make 'em. :(
-Jim
PS - For those interested, I've been led to believe I will receive a pair of Grover's speaker cables sooner than later. Assuming that's so, I will post of their arrival and later follow-up w/ my assessment of their performance vs. Anti-Cable, Reality and Sonoran Plateau speaker cables.
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I just lent my 2 loaner pairs to a local friend to try so, I can't take a photo now. :( I should've done that... doh!
Photos of Carl's samples are coming soon from Henry. I will post them.
From my memory, they are simply made but look nice. Blackish techflex kind of exterior, but nicer quality than techflex. Looks like genuine silver RCA plugs with some polyolefin heat shrink tubing covering up everything else. They are 1/4" thick cables with connectors only as thick as RCA outer grip conductor plus a layer of thin heat shrink. Doesn't look fancy, but like your momma said, it's what's on the inside that counts!
I'm hoping to get 3 pairs and a digital.
Rich
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I don't know about digital ICs, but unless I grossly misunderstood his response to my query about (read "request for") balanced ICs, he doesn't make 'em. :(
Interesting. XLR connector on single ended cables? Hmmm... Doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me.... Any equipment with a XLR connector is balanced input or output. Might be good to discover the real deal so no surprises.
I will search Steve Hoffman site tomorrow for a clue.
Rich
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I don't know about digital ICs, but unless I grossly misunderstood his response to my query about (read "request for") balanced ICs, he doesn't make 'em. :(
Interesting. XLR connector on single ended cables? Hmmm... Doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me.... Any equipment with a XLR connector is balanced input or output. Might be good to discover the real deal so no surprises.
I will search Steve Hoffman site tomorrow for a clue.
Rich
I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I said nothing about putting XLR connectors on SE cables. I asked about getting balanced cables instead of single-ended cables.
Am I missing or misunderstanding some sort of semantics thing?
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I guess I was assuming that his XLR terminated cables are balanced. Now I'm a bit confused.... (but always willing to be enlightened ;-)
Mike
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Photo's and further info.... (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=217924).... :D
(http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1173905537.jpg)
From...DarkAngel post, page 5.
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I don't know about digital ICs, but unless I grossly misunderstood his response to my query about (read "request for") balanced ICs, he doesn't make 'em. :(
Interesting. XLR connector on single ended cables? Hmmm... Doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me.... Any equipment with a XLR connector is balanced input or output. Might be good to discover the real deal so no surprises.
I will search Steve Hoffman site tomorrow for a clue.
Rich
I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I said nothing about putting XLR connectors on SE cables. I asked about getting balanced cables instead of single-ended cables.
Am I missing or misunderstanding some sort of semantics thing?
Grover has listed XLR cables in this group buy so, he makes XLR-terminated cables. When you questioned whether Grover made 'balanced' cables that would indicate the XLR's offered are not balanced. I'm thinking that's where Rich's post came from... because I had the same question after reading your post.
Only you and Grover know what comments you're referring to so it's tough to understand what you're actually talking about...
Hopefully Grover will be along to clarify whether his XLR cables are balanced... I'm pretty sure they are based on conversations I've had with Grover.
-C
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Photo's and further info.... (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=217924).... :D
(http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1173905537.jpg)
From...DarkAngel post, page 5.
Awesome! Thanks for the image link, LW. I hope to have another one from our local club meeting soon.
-Carl
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Hi everyone, what a thrill to have Carl sponsor this group buy. I think you guys will love my cables, I've put years of work into finding the finest sounding cables that regular folks like me can afford. I am extremely passionate about all aspects of reproduced sound. To give you guys some info. I do make completely balance XLR cables. All connectors are heavy plated silver, I've spent allot of effort lately developing great sounding connectors. All cables are a mixture of copper and silver, in a patent pending design. I don't have a website yet. Looking forward to your feedback.
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Grover, Thank you (and Carl) for making this group buy possible!
Can you also post info about your speaker cables, pricing, and whether they are included in the group buy as well? (if not, I'll followup with you separately).
Mike
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Am I missing or misunderstanding some sort of semantics thing?
I misinterpreted your reply to mean he didn't make balanced ICs.
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I guess I was assuming that his XLR terminated cables are balanced. Now I'm a bit confused.... (but always willing to be enlightened ;-)
Mike
Mike, somewhere along the lines the verbiage got mixed up, I think. :o
According to Carl's GB, XLR cables are offered and I assume they are balanced not single ended! Unless you have a special situation where you have an RCA the has to go into a BAL input and even then I'd suggest using an adaptor and not different plugs at both ends.
But hey, what do I know, I'm just the new guy around here. :lol:
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Mike, somewhere along the lines the verbiage got mixed up, I think. :o
Agreed. I was just wanting to know if anyone had any experience using Grover's XLR terminated ICs (as compared to his RCA ICs). I want to change from running RCA ICs between my Tact preamp and McCormack amp to XLR ICs since they both can support it.
Mike
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I read thru the whole review thing from Head-fy. Kind of confusing but I'm game. Still Grover should clue us into which version we are buying...the improved "S", or something more recent.
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Grover has listed XLR cables in this group buy so, he makes XLR-terminated cables. When you questioned whether Grover made 'balanced' cables that would indicate the XLR's offered are not balanced. I'm thinking that's where Rich's post came from... because I had the same question after reading your post.
First, I never "questioned whether Grover made 'balanced' cables". What I did was *ask* Grover for balanced cables, and he said no. He said a lot more, but the gist *I* got from it is that he doesn't make them.
Secondly, I've had several cable manufacturers explain to me why an XLR termination in and of itself is not the same thing as a true balanced cable. If I've been misinformed, like Mike (mdconnelly), I'm always willing to be enlightened.
Only you and Grover know what comments you're referring to so it's tough to understand what you're actually talking about...
-C
Okay. I'll see if I can make myself better understood.
I requested balanced ICs from Grover, and I conveyed what I understood Grover's reply to mean in response to mdconnelly's query. The response included a caveat ("...unless I grossly misunderstood...") because Grover's response to my request confused me, which was surprising given the simplicity of the request. Whether or not my interpretation of Grover's response is/was accurate is certainly questionable, though the fact that he didn't honor the request of a potential customer seemed to support the premise that he doesn't offer truly balanced cables.
Regardless of how erroneous my interpretation of Grover's comments may be, and in spite of what may be a complete and utter failure to understand the definition of the word "balanced" as it applies to cables, I cannot see how "it's tough to understand what (I'm) actually talking about..." My comments may not jive with your understanding of the situation, thus resulting in confusion, but I don't know how I could have been more clear.
-Jim
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I think we need more information from Grover on his cables. This is like buying on just good faith. [-o<
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Good faith plays a big part in a lot of audio purchases! recentlyI have been winging it totally on good faith... :shock: I don't think my run of good luck has run out just yet but I would appreciate knowing what I'm buying!
Grover I don't expect you to tell in-house secrets :D just a bit more info to unlock my faith fund!
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I also think this group buy would be more successful and could avoid any potential misgivings with more information and participation from Grover. At this point, the only way I would participate is with some sample cables. What I would want in a perfect world: Grover provides a few sets of cables for us to try before the group purchase; otherwise, I'm probably not in. I bought 5 Black Sand Cable powercords in the last group buy, so it's not the format of the purchase. Of course, I knew my previous power cords weren't that good, relative to my current interconnects and speaker cables, so it's going to take a lot to get me into this group buy.
Regardless, thanks to Carl
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I also think this group buy would be more successful and could avoid any potential misgivings with more information and participation from Grover. At this point, the only way I would participate is with some sample cables. What I would want in a perfect world: Grover provides a few sets of cables for us to try before the group purchase; otherwise, I'm probably not in. I bought 5 Black Sand Cable powercords in the last group buy, so it's not the format of the purchase. Of course, I knew my previous power cords weren't that good, relative to my current interconnects and speaker cables, so it's going to take a lot to get me into this group buy.
Regardless, thanks to Carl
Well, I think that sums it up rather nicely!
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Sorry, I posted a PM in the forum by mistake. Deleted.
Rich
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If Grover says that the latest iteration of his IC is at least as good as the ultimate that is described here, http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=47670&highlight=grover I may take the plunge if we get to 35% again. :lol: Since I actively triamp and run many sources, I use a lot of ICs. :evil:
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Rim....What IC's are you using now ? Thanks......
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Rim....What IC's are you using now ? Thanks......
Chris,
I have 7 pairs (2 at 2m and 5 at 1m) of illume. http://www.rscables.com/page4.html
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Grover e-mailed me today that he is still working on the cables [latest iteration Grover S ICs] and he's made some changes in the silver content of the conductors. "Sounding way better." He also said to give him a couple weeks to finalize the cables.
Hopefully he will finalize them before the April 20th close of the group buy.
[/quote]
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Hi Guys, I'd like to assure you that my S cables are finalized. I have been working on a new higher silver content connector. This new connector will be on all Grover S RCA cables, supplied to you. I'm dedicated to providing the finest cables around, and am looking forward to your impressions. I am willing to answer any questions about my cables asked here in this forum. It is my sincere belief you will be most satisfied, and pleased. Later after this buy, we can discuss speaker cable, if you wish. My cables are all personally fabricated. There is total quality control right down to the custom conductor ribbons I personally press and polish.
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I haven't a clue any more what I'm buying :shock: but I'm still in!
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I certainly can't provide an in-depth experience...however, at Richidoo's G2G this past Sunday...we did a quick comparison between Straley IC's and a pair of Grover's IC's (supplied by Carlman).
The difference was immediate...with the Grover's revealing more information all across the spectrum.
So...I figure with that one experience, it's worth giving them a try :wink: !
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I haven't a clue any more what I'm buying :shock: but I'm still in!
ROTFL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: !!
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I haven't a clue any more what I'm buying :shock: but I'm still in!
Hey, it worked out with the opamp, so why not a set of cables?
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I may be in as well. However, I will probably wait until the date gets closer and we actually figure out what the hell we are buying. :lol:
Thanks,
Mike
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Any guess how long it will take to turn all these around with a big group buy like this?
From what I read, it seems like he gets swamped pretty quickly, being a one person show and all. I certainly appreciate that he wants to get them right the first time.
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Thanks to the kindness of DU/Jim and Grover, I've been burning in a pair of Grover IC's (like the one in the above photo I posted) for about a week. They have continued to sound better each day. Over the next few days, along with 3 different amps (SS, Tube,Digital), a cdp, and speakers...I'll compare them to a few other IC's I own....Ridge Street, Reality, Zu, VH Audio.
What I hear now....lots of detail, good bass....very open sounding. At first they did sound bright, and a little closed in....but their burning in nicely....with more control. Even at this point....at the group buy price...its a "best buy"....REALLY !! 8)
Chris
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The new connectors take the cables to a much higher level. No one but me has the new connectors. Soon you guys will. Wait till you hear these.
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Thanks to the kindness of DU/Jim and Grover, I've been burning in a pair of Grover IC's (like the one in the above photo I posted) for about a week. They have continued to sound better each day.
That's pretty much what I experienced, Chris. I was definitely less than impressed the first few days, but they really opened up and smoothed out over the course of a week or so. The comparison with my Indra proved the Indra still reigns, but from a technical standpoint (tonal accuracy, etc.), it was much closer than I had anticipated.
Good cables IMO, especially for the price. Glad you like 'em.
-Jim
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Lets keep this in mind.....Stealth Audio Indra - component retail: $5,750/1m/pr ......... :roll:
(Did you get these at Walmart..... :lol: .....just kidding.....)
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"Hey, it worked out with the opamp, so why not a set of cables?"
The opamps were free!
Chris you're our savior!
"ROTFL" :shock: ? Right on the fast lane??? (that ain't me)
LEXICON :!: :?: :idea:
I need a good set of IC's. My DH labs are not working very well with my system as it evolves. I'm certainly in for 1M set but I get nervous buying "work in progress" gear. Having said that, I've been on an audio roll of late so trusting lucky stars that watch over Nervosa's.
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Lets keep this in mind.....Stealth Audio Indra - component retail: $5,750/1m/pr ......... :roll:
And that would be precisely my point. :beer:
(Did you get these at Walmart..... :lol: .....just kidding.....)
How'd you know? :shock:
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Hey, if Chris says they are good...then I guess I am sold. :shock:
But, this is not the way to present any new product. At the very least, Grover should offer a little information explaining his cable's philosophy and why it differs from 'other' brands... just a little info can go a long way.
So...reading between the lines... I guess the group buy is for his latest 'S' version of his cable(there being just one model?) with whatever current innovation he is currently working on... is that a reasonable assessment?
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I'm sure all us cable guys have the same philosophy. Make music real. Make cables that take you to the original event. I'm not sure what I can say about my cables that haven’t been said before. My design is unique, uses multiple ribbons of purest copper and silver. Double Ugly hasn't hear the new connectors, takes the S to a different level that would make the Indra sweat. In my opinion price is irrelevant, we want the finest sound possible. The fact that I'm not charging $5000+ is that I despise this practice. A new day has come. Goodbye Indra.
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A new day has come. Goodbye Indra.
Not yet...
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grover,
You might quote the capacitance value. It does matter in some installations....thanks
WEEZ
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Posted some listening comments......here..... (http://www.audionervosa.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=259)
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grover,
You might quote the capacitance value. It does matter in some installations....thanks
WEEZ
Yup, especially us "passive' types. :?
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Hi
as my first post i don't want to start too much controversy here, but does not any one think that it is strange that Gorver's business model is one of continuos improvement (which really is a good thing...but this happens every few months and so, it is questionable to me)...wait until you hear this one, it is better than the last one etc...?
I have owned a pair of his UR speaker cables since feb 2005..and i like them for what they are (presently ion a bedroom system)...i own a pair of his U8 RCA to RCA 1 meter cables and have used them in 3 different systems, with one system on for a continuous 400 hours....and i think they are not worth the price .......(where my main system is configured with silversmith silver and VD revelation)
they do they same thing in every sytem i have put them in....yes detail, yes some depth, no not musical, not not listenbale....they don't present dynamics and dynamic shading properly, and i and my wife have heard this in all 3 systems in the exact same way...my brother has auditioned them in 2 of his systems, and he heard the same characteristics without me telling him what to listen to...
i would not advise anyone spending their money on grovers cables...given all the adoring words written on the U8 on other forums, i can't imagine that his new S cable is substantially better...and i would love to be wrong because the potential for price/performance ratio is something you have to love...
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The first dissenting voice :shock: Had to happen sooner or later...maybe we are dealing with different generations of a work-in-progress? Would be nice to know that what we are talking about buying represents the culmination.. always the "innocent abroad", that's me!
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I must admit that in the past I have been quick to improve my cables, I believe that offering the finest cables is the only way to go. I'm sorry that kwuke feels that way about my UR8, and I agree it had its limitations. The new S cable is light years beyond the UR8. I personally and a lot of customers loved the UR8 at its conception. I know many people that still use that cable with great satisfaction. I do feel that I'm at the point where my cables will remain very stable. Personally I feel I'm very lucky to have the flexibility to change and grow. When I discover a weakness I work to improve. This is why I've changed connectors on the cables you guys will get. I discovered the connector was holding back the performance. I personally do not think improving ones product a sin. The cable measures around 20pf. per foot.
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what's a "pf" :?
a measure of capacitance?
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what's a "pf" :?
a measure of capacitance?
Yes, picofarad, pretty tiny as in ten to the minus 12th farads :-)
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Yup, 20pf/ft is workable in most applications. Thanks for the info, grover.
WEEZ
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I just flew back into town tonight... was seeing a friend in Boston for his 40th birthday... and haven't seen a computer since Friday morning.
I read through this thread and it's all over the place... and it seems there are 2 or 3 'angles' to this topic... 1, This is a GB thread, intended to be a central point to answer questions about the GB.
2, It sounds like Grover's cables need more introduction, details, specs, demos, etc.
3, Stuff that's splitting off from #2.
Also, thanks to Jim for the clarification.
Please keep in mind, I understand hesitation to try something unknown but there's no obligation to do this... It's something Grover offered to do and my only thought was to pass the favor to AudioNervosa members... So, if you like/want/are interested, join... if not, there's no obligation.
I had never heard of Grover or his cables until I got addicted to Black Sand Cables. John suggested them when I bought my PC's. So, I started chatting with Grover a little about doing a GB.... and here we are. :)
I'll be getting to emails soon... please be patient it'll take me a couple of days to get fully back into the swing of things.
However... I would prefer not to have the GB have depencies on demo's... There are generous folks on AudioNervosa that will probably help with that, though.... and I highly encourage that kind of spirit. I've rarely got all my equipment in my house at the same time... And I know others here are the same.
I wish I could split this post into 3 areas but it's sort-of connected. Please start new threads asking for demos, or non-GB related stuff.
Thanks,
Carl
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I do feel that I'm at the point where my cables will remain very stable. Personally I feel I'm very lucky to have the flexibility to change and grow. When I discover a weakness I work to improve.
I agree you should be able to make and offer improvements when need be, but surely you can understand some hesitancy when folks see you've offered 3 different iterations of the same cable (original + two improvements) in just over 1 month. (1) I received my first pair on Feb 20,
(2) then I received an 'updated' pair a couple of weeks ago about which you said "Hearing details unobvious before", and now
(3) you have yet another version that supposedly represents a "different level" of performance in comparison to my two-week old cable.
Obviously it isn't a sin, but it's a bit extreme by anyone's definition, don't you think? These folks are contemplating purchasing your cables sight unseen, sound unheard, and rave reviews by people they don't know will only carry so much weight. Somewhere along the line they have to develop some measure of faith in the designer, and that'd be you.
Little faith = limited sales IMO.
-Jim
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Carl, you KNOW we are all (royal "all"!) greatful for the dedication you posess to oversee all of this, and I'm not just speaking of the GB's. You put yourself on the line taking this on but whatever is said or thought is no reflection on you. We all have to be responsible for our Nevrosas and whatever direction they take us! I don't see where this thread has split up. It's just going in the different ways that reflect the various personalities here. So far there's been a good communal spirit here and we've all been very well behaved :D considering that audiophiles have it in them to be oppinionated ball-busters...you know how pathologically curious Nevrosa can be... I'm sure we will be delighted with Grovers cables and all will be well (and if we're not we'll be tactfull) Shep
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Grover, did you also improved the XLR connectors? Or did you only worked on the RCA one?
How does your Balanced I.C. compare sonically to the Single ended one?
Thank you,
Gilles
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Double Ugly your the one that's helping me to improve my cables. I'm very stimulated to improve, when I find a cable that out performs mine. You and the Indra caused both changes. I want my cable to equal or outperform the Indra. And you have been the stimulus, and I very much appreciate it. I want the guy's here to have cables that will blow them away. Faith or not the cables need to speak for themselves. Remember you can buy 38 pairs of my cable to one Indra pair. I'm dedicated to giving these guys cables that compare. I really like the performance now, and appreciate your help. Here's an email from arthurs of audio circle, this guy is really into it. Check out his listening room. He just wrote me about the S cable without the new connectors. With your help Double Ugly I knew the original connectors were holding back the sound. That is remedied with the new higher silver content connectors. So I would answer the cables are ready. Gilles I feel the balanced cables to equal the performance of the RCA's
From : Arthur <@.net> [edit: domain name removed - richidoo]
Sent : Monday, April 2, 2007 2:24 AM
To : grover huffman <groverhuffman@hotmail.com>
Subject : Cables
Inbox
Hi Grover, just wanted to check in with you. I've had a chance to spend several hours and listening sessions with the cables this past week and they really are terrific, very balanced sounding with a very natural presentation that really lets the music flow. Staging and imaging seem to be on the money also, but I'd like to check that against some other cables in my setup to confirm what I think I'm hearing. The only downside I've found at all is I wonder if they're a little on the polite side at times in regards to attack and dynamics, but that's a question mark for me right now, not a definitive statement. These really don't seem to give up much of anything to many of my favorite cables, of different constructions, and at a wide variety of price ranges. They seem to have a cumulative affect, as they have worked better together than when paired with another make of IC's, at least so far. They really are good, and silly good if I understand the price range on them correctly.
With your permission, I'd like to have them through next weekend, which would let me do a couple things this week. First, I haven't been able to do much a/b against some of my other cable setups, which I would like to. Second, I'd also like to make some very detailed notes while listening and be able to frame up my thoughts with more clarity and detail for you. I didn't get to as much of that as I would like due to life interfering with my audio hobby the past few weeks, of which this past week was no exception...
Let me know if that's okay with you and I'll have something well outlined for you next weekend and we can talk more at that point. But I did want to let you know I'd put some time in and have found myself more than once shaking my head at what you've got here in terms of value for the dollar, they're something.
Let me know and we'll go from there.
Best regards, Art
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private e-mail of preliminary (and unfinished) thoughts posted publicly without even a heads up to me.......terrific..... :roll:
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Art, your preliminary observations are interesting. I hope you will continue your thorough review and let us know what you conclude. You obviously have a methodical objective approach that is avoiding a quick judgement. Something not easy to do with cables.
I too am concerned how they will sound after a week or three in my system, when silver cable meets russian input tube meets ribbon tweeter, etc. You just don't know until you've had some time to simmer with them in everyday listening. None of us will have that chance until after we have bought. With the cables in your posession you can give us a good sense of what they're like to live with.
I'm used to extremely low impedence OCC copper IC and a little timid to try something like silver ribbon, but I am a risk taker and not worried about getting rid of them if they don't do it for me, especially if we can muster a 35% discount!
I understand your frustration, but your note to Grover only makes you seem like you are knowledgable audiophile and cautious consumer, so your conclusion is valuable info in this GB!
Check your PM, Art. :)
Rich
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Art, your preliminary observations are interesting....[edit for content]...
I too am concerned how they will sound after a week or three in my system, when silver cable meets russian input tube meets ribbon tweeter, etc. You just don't know until you've had some time to simmer with them in everyday listening. None of us will have that chance until after we have bought. With the cables in your posession you can give us a good sense of what they're like to live with.
Rich
This is exactly why buying IC's and SPK cables is such a difficult proposition unless you have them on audition(ie return policy), they are probably more system dependent than any other component in our systems.
Even basing them on a review is tricky, as many times the reviewer's system (components, conditioners, tweaks, room set up, AC) can be drastically different than what we have...
Pricing(35% off or not) should not be the deciding factor here...as cables from unknown(smaller) manufactures typically have a hard time for resale, usually even at a 50% discount on Agon.
Just food for thought, based on years of experience that have proven "it's all about synergy"! I have no experience with Grover Cables, or any of the people behind the company, therefore I am not saying they will not work in our systems; what I am saying is...the prudent thing is you need to try before you buy(especially within the magical world of cables).
bill
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Authur I hope I didn't step beyond the bounds. This is just how much I value your opinion. You have the finest sound room I have ever seen. And your expertise with cables is very apparent.
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We're okay Grover, just a moment of misunderstanding, I sent you a note privately just a minute ago.
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I wrote a note to Grover confirming my interest in a pair and asking him about payment from France. Am I going to be the only one??? No reduction :shock: I'll punish you and wouldn't tell you how they sound!
everyone chicken out? where's the spirit of adventure gone! ps my tea shirt must be somewhere over the Atlantic. The sun is out and I want to how off...
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I got home today to find a nice big padded-envelope in my mailbox. I've received 4 pairs of Grover's latest IC's. :) :) :) :!:
So, I'm very excited to get them in the system and burned in... I'll get that going now and hopefully get some ear-time tomorrow evening as I catch up on some shipping.
Check out this thread (http://www.audionervosa.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=2449#2449) for more info about a Grover IC Demo Tour with the latest cables.
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Grover has a community of audiophiles who would be more than willing to purchase his interconnects if they are that good. How about him providing some sample sets that we could pass around, those interest could keep them for a week each, providing a check as collateral as they move? In a few months, he could have 50 sets sold.
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I wrote a note to Grover confirming my interest in a pair and asking him about payment from France. Am I going to be the only one???
No.....I will be ordering two pairs. :D
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Hi Gang!
We're splitting the group buy into two parts, so those who have already paid and those who are already convinced and wanna buy now don't have to wait for the demo tour to conclude before they get their own cables.
1st part ends April 20 as originally scheduled. The discount for both orders is locked in on April 20 by the first order size. The same discount will be applied to the 2nd order placed after the tour ends. If we want the max 35% discount, then we gotta reach 30 cables by April 20. Shouldn't be too hard!!
2nd part allows demo tour to proceed at a more relaxed pace, with up to 3 days of listening at each stop. No limit to the number of people who want in, although we have not hit 20 yet anyway. Tour signup (http://www.audionervosa.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=275) is extended to this Sunday (TODAY). Cables ship out on Monday. No more signups after tour begins.
When tour is complete in about 2 months, the 2nd order will be sent to Grover. Anyone can order (more) cables in the 2nd order.
Hava nice weekend! :D
Rich
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Rich,
I'm up for going ahead with my purchase...I've already paid.
I'd like the opportunity to get mine ASAP :wink: !
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How does it stand now...concerning the GB discount ? Thanks.... :D
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How does it stand now...concerning the GB discount ? Thanks.... :D
.....................(http://www.wpclipart.com/small_icons/misc_5/.cache/question_mark.png)...Thanks !!
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:-k
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Here's the spreadsheet. I will update it every couple days.
Grover Group Buy Orders (http://audionervosa.com/GHCGB/GroverGBSheet.htm)
Rich
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Rich, I sent off a check to Carl (from NY). I don't know if under my "special" circumstances you can count me in to help reach a magic discount number :shock:
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Thanks for putting together the spreadsheet and working on this GB, Rich.
So we're at 25% officially... I know there are a few waiting in the wings... so I'm hoping we'll get the 30% point in the next day or 2.
-C
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Shep, you still want single pair 1 meter RCA, right? I'll put you down for that. Thanks!
Now 8!
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That's it yes.
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Email and Paypal sent..... two pairs...thanks !! :beer:
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Email sent for 1.5m pair of XLR ICs!
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Group buy part one is "officially" closed, but I'm not compiling the final order until tomorrow so you can send in a last minute order if you want!
We reached the 30% discount for the first round, which will apply for all 2nd round orders too. Thanks everybody!
Rich
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1st part is all done.
Please check the updated spreadsheet (http://audionervosa.com/GHCGB/GroverGBSheet.htm) for any errors.
Carl will submit the order asap, and we will let you know when the order arrives. Thanks for making it easy for me everybody!
2nd order should happen around beginning of June depending on speed of demo tour.
Hava nice weekend!
Rich
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Rich,
Did you ever post or send out the demo tour list? Just curious.
Thanks again for your work on this!
-- Jim
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Yup, I started a new thread (http://www.audionervosa.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=279) for it over in the Tours and Auditions section.
Duke has it now, should be sending it along soon, haven't heard from him. Duke are you out there???
Rich
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I'm biting my nails (or are those my elbows?) haunting the male-box and generally getting myself into a twist waiting for that special package.
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I'm biting my nails (or are those my elbows?) haunting the male-box and generally getting myself into a twist waiting for that special package.
Hey...hey....hey....stay outta the "male" box..... :lol:
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I try but I keep finding myself back in there...literally, figuratively. Anyway the damn thing is empty.
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Rich do you have an ETA for the cables?
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Nope! :D
The order is placed with Grover, and turnaround time is up to him. As soon as the main batch arrives here, Carl or I will make a post. Yours should arrive a few days later? Spreadsheet (http://audionervosa.com/GHCGB/GroverGBSheet.htm) updated to reflect all the checks and paypals received. Thanks everybody!
Rich
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I've sent the email order to Grover and am sending a check tomorrow.
He said it'd be a couple of weeks to get the order shipped to me and/or Rich. Once we get the big group of orders, we'll sort it out and ship to everyone... probably another week. So, figure 3 weeks from now in the US... another few days for France.
-C
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Thanks both. Now that the elbows are gone, I can start on what? Got to leave at least a brain with ears and something to hit the right buttons.
Three weeks is an eternity for an itchy audiophile!
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Celery is very good, but no more body parts. :D
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Good thinking! that way I keep something over to scratch the itch!
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FYI, the 3 refunds for Paypal have been issued.
Thanks,
Carl
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Thank you Carl.... :wink:
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Rich, are "you" getting closer to posting time? (I'm getting a serious itch)
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Update: The cables for the Group Buy (Part 1) were shipped to me yesterday from Grover. So, we're pretty much on schedule... If all goes well they'll be shipped early next week.
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Woo-hoo!!! :D 8)
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I received the goodie box today (as opposed to the male box :wink: )
I have snavyseal and shep's international orders here too. They will be shipped in genuine original Black Sand Cables shipping boxes! woohoo!
I will have to hook up shep's wires and play those for a few days/weeks just to make sure they are OK before sending.... :lol: You don't mind a little extra delay, do you shep? :wink: <--- just kidding!!
The cables are sharp looking, all white. Stereofool's balanced cables are quite fetching. :oops: I think you may wanna keep those out where the ladies can see them Steve!
Shipping tomorrow by Priority Mail from NC.
Rich
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WOOPIE!!! nah keep them, burn them in. What's a few more days? If I can wait for months for an amp... WOOPIE! thanks for all the good work :D
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WooHoo :D !
Thanks for the update, Rich.
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All sent! Hope you enjoy them! In a few more weeks we will have another go round.
Rich
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Whoa! Got my Grover XLR ICs and I am impressed. I'm running them between my Tact pre and McCormack amp. In truth, I don't know if the significant improvement is due to the Grovers or switching to XLR balanced ICs from RCA single ended Pulsars. I've always wanted to give balanced ICs a try but until this weekend, I was a balanced virgin.
As much as I love switching cables endlessly in order to discern what the differences are (NOT!), I can say that the Grover XLRs have found a permanent home. I think what strikes me most is a better defined, more 3D soundstage with nothing but blackness between instruments and voices. In particular, the mids - particularly vocals - are really compelling.
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Depending on the components involved sometimes balanced/XLR outputs WILL produce better sound.
Thanks for your comments...I've got a couple of pair of the balanced and SE cables coming. I'm looking forward to 'playing' with them :D !
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I was a balanced virgin.
Mike you're lucky today is Sunday and I am on my best behavior. That is a setup if I have ever seen one. :wink: (Glad you like your cables.)
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I'm down to the last stick of celery. The mailman doesn't understand why I'm sleeping in the mailbox. But YOU know why...
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Grover Huffman IC's
I told myself I was going to wait until all cables had 'burned-in'...but we all know how that goes...when we have new toys to play with :roll: . If they improve with more time, then that's just icing on the cake!
Tracks:
Diana Krall: All For You
2 Gee Baby, Ain't I Been Good to You
7 Hit That Jive Jack
8 You're Looking At Me
Paul Simon: Rhythm of the Saints
2
3
A number of others...with me just listening to the music/performance, and not trying to hear anything going on. In other words...just enjoying the music, for its own sake.
First impression(s)...(no burn in).
Starting point...1m XLR, between CD and pre-amp...replacing Harmonic Tech ProSilway MkIII.
Easy/relaxed presentation...no barriers to the 'music'...I completely got lost in the performance(s).
Better inter-transient silence...allowing revelation of finer (more subtle) details.
Improved attack...i.e. hearing the leading edge of a note better (e.g. of a plucked string).
Deeper or more defined bass.
Second...addition of 1.5m XLR between pre-amp and amp...replacing Harmonic Tech ProSilway MkIII.
All of the above...with additional depth and width (somewhat recording dependent).
Improved imaging...more specific placement/separation (within space) of instruments and/or performers.
Actually, they even made some 'modern' recordings more listenable. Whereas the 'modern' recordings were normally one 'flat' wall of sound...the Grover's breathed some depth into them...usually with the singer placed further back in the sound field (not so much in your face).
I wasn't looking to make any changes, in my system, until a g2g (at Richidoo's)...sparked my interest...after we did a very quick comparison by throwing in a set of Grover's previous cables. We could hear an immediate difference there...and I could too...once I got my own to play with.
Am I happy with my purchase...YES :D !
Well done, Grover =D> =D> !
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Quick update:
Demo cables arrived in Colorado last evening. I had other commitments so only just put one set in between my stock Denon 2910 and my modded Minimax preamp. Unfortunately, there is no way I can stretch a 1 meter cable to reach from the preamp to the Signature 70 amps, so I'll just have to do with this one pair in place.
First impressions are very positive, and despite my thinking there would be small differences between these and the Realitys currently in place (Anti-ICs between pre and amps), I have to say the differences were pretty significant and positive. I'll explain more later when I've gone through enough different kinds of material, but bottom line is that I really, really wish I could put these btween pre and amps for the full effect.
Over the next couple of days I will also try them with a variety of NOS tubes in the preamp -- all of which whose sonic signatures I know well by now -- CBS/Hytron, Mullard, Bugle Boy -- my top 3, and maybe a few more as time permits.
More to come...
-- Jim
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shep got his Grovers today! Woopy! Thanks all (Rich esp.) Now for a good old listen. God they are a tight it...I don't know if I can ever get them :shock: off again
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Couldn't resist...ok take a 15 year old hi-end Straight Wire Maestro out of the line. Put in a new pair; totally dif. conception and construction. Know that it will take days or weeks to burn in fully. Put on a cd I know well; Herbie Hancock "Gershwin"s World", excellent recording. What do I hear?
A bit of glaze to the piano and horns. This will disappear. Slight edginess.
Excellent dynamics, good attack. The sound stage is slightly more forward. I see further into the back and the corners so there is more micro-information. Bass has a nice bite, good weight. Treble is easy and non aggresive. Obviously these are very good wires. The are less even-handed than the Straight W. but more interesting, informative. My experience telles me to expect a 20% improvement with time, maybe more. Nothing but music happening. Happy camper. I'll get back on this when they go past the 100 hour mark. ps more holographic :D
I know what I'm hearing that's different, the Silver! not used to it's signature...actually edgy was not the right term, more like "green", as in green wood, a tiny bit raw. This is a characteristic of every new piece. Op amps are the same, even worse at first. Atoms have to allign.
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Woohoo!!! Congrats, Shep. Listen to them critically again in a week, and then again a week after... they relax a bit as (I think) you're expecting.
-C
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Thanks for initiating this Carl. Nice and smooth, just like the forum is turning out.
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After burning in the cable for more than 50 hours, I compared Grover Huffman's new (white) S cable against his first iteration S cable (very fine cables). To my ears, the newest version perfects the design: totally transparent top to bottom; natural and organic; unforced detail retrieval.
I listened at 40 hours and didn't find much difference with the first iteration Grovers. But 10 hours later, the cables opened up with astonishing musicality -- there is so much more music making on my CDs.
At this price (even at many mutlitples of this price) and a money back guarantee, I hope more folks give these a try. Happy listening.
Phil