Author Topic: DIY roller blocks??  (Read 1848 times)

Offline Nick B

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Re: DIY roller blocks??
« Reply #90 on: April 10, 2021, 09:51:13 PM »
The whole point to adding mass to the top of any case is to reduce vibrations from the somewhat flimsy case metal. You could also do that by placing some sticky damping materiel inside the case itself, under the cover and under the circuit board on the bottom, if there is room. I just wouldn't do this if there is heat being generated. You may find some room for that away from the tube but definitely use something that won't scorch or melt.

Bob,
I appreciate your input. I did that on a few items years ago. Donít have the damping material any more. My Border Patrol dac is very solid and heavy for a small unit. It has a copper chassis as I understand it.
If I were knowledgeable enough and/or inclined to do so, it would be interesting to measure the effect of simple weighting vs using a damping material. The unit generates very little heat

http://www.borderpatrol.net/images/DAC%20Pics/DAC-Wht-Tab-350%20Col%20Adj.jpg

Just found part of this interview that applies here...
Doug Schroeder: The DAC SE uses copper for chassis. Why?

Gary Dews: The use of copper for the casework was a spin-off from the Border Patrol amplifier designs. Early BorderPatrol amps were made with steel and aluminium chassis. There was a noticeable difference in sound between the two. Steel imparted a glare and grainy character to the sound. Aluminium, by comparison, sounded lighter, freer and airier but was also somewhat frenetic and unruly by comparison. I was lucky enough to hear amplifiers made by Audio Note Japan and to meet the legendary late Mr. Kondo several times. We discussed amplifier design and I asked him why he used copper for the chassis of his amplifiers. He told me it was not for looks and that copper sounded better than steel and aluminium. He spoke about calmness, tone colour, the quietness of background, noise floor (audible, not measurable) and freedom from grain. I had a copper chassis made for my amplifier and the difference was clear. When I realized I could use copper casework for the DAC and still make it relatively affordable it seemed like an obvious thing to do. Anyone that thinks the chassis material does not play a part in the sound of a product hasnít done the work.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 10:06:37 PM by Nick B »
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Offline P.I.

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Re: DIY roller blocks??
« Reply #91 on: April 11, 2021, 09:13:15 AM »
Truth.

There is a reason why the things I build are not in metal enclosures.  The fact that they are double insulated plays only a minor role.  I did the work.
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Offline Nick B

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Re: DIY roller blocks??
« Reply #92 on: April 11, 2021, 10:38:10 AM »
Truth.

There is a reason why the things I build are not in metal enclosures.  The fact that they are double insulated plays only a minor role.  I did the work.

Ah, nice to get your take on this, Dave  :thumb:
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Offline Nick B

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Re: DIY roller blocks??
« Reply #93 on: April 12, 2021, 09:22:25 PM »
I called Herbieís today and discussed what theyíd recommend for under my B & W speaker stands and under my Pangea rack. Seems the cone/spike decoupling gliders and the fat grounding bases might be the way to go. Will likely order soon. Once thatís done, Iíll move on to simple acoustic treatments.


https://herbiesaudiolab.com/products/cone-spike-decoupling-glider?variant=12645103403063

https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/loudspeaker-rack-decoupling-and-isolation/products/fat-grounding-base
Van Alstine SET 120 Control Amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
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Border Patrol SEi dac
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PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

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Re: DIY roller blocks??
« Reply #94 on: April 12, 2021, 11:04:14 PM »
Has anyone ever used springs for any resonance applications?

https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Aluminum-Speakers-Isolation-Amplifiers/dp/B07K9ZYP84
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Offline tmazz

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Re: DIY roller blocks??
« Reply #95 on: April 13, 2021, 08:00:39 AM »
Springs can be tricky because the have resonance points of their own and and as such can actually end up introducing vibrations into the system. Also when used under a component that already has some kind of spring suspension in it the new springs can combine with the existing springs and shift a spring resonance that was carefully tuned in the original product to occur at a specific frequency where it is not a problem  move the resonance point of the new spring combination back into a spot where it will cause audible problems.

I would also never think about putting a spring product under any kind of speaker. Speaker cabinets and the face that the drivers are mounted on should always be as stiff as possible with the goal of keeping the driver frame as motionless as possible so that the only thing moving at all is the cone in reaction to the signal being fed to it.  Any movement of the driver or the whole cabinet will cause distortion because the movement of the frame will be added to the displacement of the cone by the input so the physical movement of the cone will therefor never be a match to the input signal.

In my CS-6s, Jim Theil formed the front face of the cabinet out of reinforced poured concrete to insure that the drivers were held solidly during operation. 165 lbs later there was no movement in those drivers.
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Offline doug s.

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Re: DIY roller blocks??
« Reply #96 on: April 13, 2021, 10:43:40 AM »
agreed w/below.  i'd also not use springs on stand-mounted speakers because i'd be worried about them being more susceptible to getting knocked over.

also, nobsound sells elsewhere.  i got my wife to cancel her amazon prime membership, and we won't ever shop amazon again. i recommend everyone do the same.  there's other places that you can shop w/o spending a fortune, that are less destructive of the economy and environment. i'm concerned about my kid's, niece's, grand-niece's/nephew's future...

doug s.
Springs can be tricky because the have resonance points of their own and and as such can actually end up introducing vibrations into the system. Also when used under a component that already has some kind of spring suspension in it the new springs can combine with the existing springs and shift a spring resonance that was carefully tuned in the original product to occur at a specific frequency where it is not a problem  move the resonance point of the new spring combination back into a spot where it will cause audible problems.

I would also never think about putting a spring product under any kind of speaker. Speaker cabinets and the face that the drivers are mounted on should always be as stiff as possible with the goal of keeping the driver frame as motionless as possible so that the only thing moving at all is the cone in reaction to the signal being fed to it.  Any movement of the driver or the whole cabinet will cause distortion because the movement of the frame will be added to the displacement of the cone by the input so the physical movement of the cone will therefor never be a match to the input signal.

In my CS-6s, Jim Theil formed the front face of the cabinet out of reinforced poured concrete to insure that the drivers were held solidly during operation. 165 lbs later there was no movement in those drivers.

Offline Nick B

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Re: DIY roller blocks??
« Reply #97 on: April 13, 2021, 12:42:25 PM »
Guys, thanks for the input. Doug, Iím going through life solo nowadays and my cat behaves well around my audio system, so no worries of anything getting knocked over :) I was wondering though if this ISO product acted more like a spring than the Herbieís small fat dots that I just installed. This ISO product has always intrigued me, but Iíve never known anyone whoís owned them.


https://isoacoustics.com/products/aperta-series/


agreed w/below.  i'd also not use springs on stand-mounted speakers because i'd be worried about them being more susceptible to getting knocked over.

also, nobsound sells elsewhere.  i got my wife to cancel her amazon prime membership, and we won't ever shop amazon again. i recommend everyone do the same.  there's other places that you can shop w/o spending a fortune, that are less destructive of the economy and environment. i'm concerned about my kid's, niece's, grand-niece's/nephew's future...

doug s.
Springs can be tricky because the have resonance points of their own and and as such can actually end up introducing vibrations into the system. Also when used under a component that already has some kind of spring suspension in it the new springs can combine with the existing springs and shift a spring resonance that was carefully tuned in the original product to occur at a specific frequency where it is not a problem  move the resonance point of the new spring combination back into a spot where it will cause audible problems.

I would also never think about putting a spring product under any kind of speaker. Speaker cabinets and the face that the drivers are mounted on should always be as stiff as possible with the goal of keeping the driver frame as motionless as possible so that the only thing moving at all is the cone in reaction to the signal being fed to it.  Any movement of the driver or the whole cabinet will cause distortion because the movement of the frame will be added to the displacement of the cone by the input so the physical movement of the cone will therefor never be a match to the input signal.

In my CS-6s, Jim Theil formed the front face of the cabinet out of reinforced poured concrete to insure that the drivers were held solidly during operation. 165 lbs later there was no movement in those drivers.
Van Alstine SET 120 Control Amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Auralic Aries Mini & Mojo Audio lps
Audio Envy cables
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline doug s.

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Re: DIY roller blocks??
« Reply #98 on: April 13, 2021, 04:07:58 PM »
i've heard good things about these, and they'd be on my short-list if i had a specific need they could fill.  afaik, they don't use springs, but i'm certain that if you contacted them, they could tell you exactly what it is that makes them tick.  (or at least enough w/o divulging any "secrets" - ha!)

doug s.

ps - if it were me, i'd be the one i'd worry about, knocking something over.   :mrgreen:

Guys, thanks for the input. Doug, Iím going through life solo nowadays and my cat behaves well around my audio system, so no worries of anything getting knocked over :) I was wondering though if this ISO product acted more like a spring than the Herbieís small fat dots that I just installed. This ISO product has always intrigued me, but Iíve never known anyone whoís owned them.


https://isoacoustics.com/products/aperta-series/


agreed w/below.  i'd also not use springs on stand-mounted speakers because i'd be worried about them being more susceptible to getting knocked over.

also, nobsound sells elsewhere.  i got my wife to cancel her amazon prime membership, and we won't ever shop amazon again. i recommend everyone do the same.  there's other places that you can shop w/o spending a fortune, that are less destructive of the economy and environment. i'm concerned about my kid's, niece's, grand-niece's/nephew's future...

doug s.
Springs can be tricky because the have resonance points of their own and and as such can actually end up introducing vibrations into the system. Also when used under a component that already has some kind of spring suspension in it the new springs can combine with the existing springs and shift a spring resonance that was carefully tuned in the original product to occur at a specific frequency where it is not a problem  move the resonance point of the new spring combination back into a spot where it will cause audible problems.

I would also never think about putting a spring product under any kind of speaker. Speaker cabinets and the face that the drivers are mounted on should always be as stiff as possible with the goal of keeping the driver frame as motionless as possible so that the only thing moving at all is the cone in reaction to the signal being fed to it.  Any movement of the driver or the whole cabinet will cause distortion because the movement of the frame will be added to the displacement of the cone by the input so the physical movement of the cone will therefor never be a match to the input signal.

In my CS-6s, Jim Theil formed the front face of the cabinet out of reinforced poured concrete to insure that the drivers were held solidly during operation. 165 lbs later there was no movement in those drivers.

Offline Nick B

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Re: DIY roller blocks??
« Reply #99 on: April 13, 2021, 05:54:37 PM »
The main problem with these would be increasing the listening height. Iíve got my favorite chair and wouldnít want to have to sit on a couple of pillows. Thankfully Iím not close yet to being a danger to by beloved Fritzies....

i've heard good things about these, and they'd be on my short-list if i had a specific need they could fill.  afaik, they don't use springs, but i'm certain that if you contacted them, they could tell you exactly what it is that makes them tick.  (or at least enough w/o divulging any "secrets" - ha!)

doug s.

ps - if it were me, i'd be the one i'd worry about, knocking something over.   :mrgreen:

Guys, thanks for the input. Doug, Iím going through life solo nowadays and my cat behaves well around my audio system, so no worries of anything getting knocked over :) I was wondering though if this ISO product acted more like a spring than the Herbieís small fat dots that I just installed. This ISO product has always intrigued me, but Iíve never known anyone whoís owned them.


https://isoacoustics.com/products/aperta-series/


agreed w/below.  i'd also not use springs on stand-mounted speakers because i'd be worried about them being more susceptible to getting knocked over.

also, nobsound sells elsewhere.  i got my wife to cancel her amazon prime membership, and we won't ever shop amazon again. i recommend everyone do the same.  there's other places that you can shop w/o spending a fortune, that are less destructive of the economy and environment. i'm concerned about my kid's, niece's, grand-niece's/nephew's future...

doug s.
Springs can be tricky because the have resonance points of their own and and as such can actually end up introducing vibrations into the system. Also when used under a component that already has some kind of spring suspension in it the new springs can combine with the existing springs and shift a spring resonance that was carefully tuned in the original product to occur at a specific frequency where it is not a problem  move the resonance point of the new spring combination back into a spot where it will cause audible problems.

I would also never think about putting a spring product under any kind of speaker. Speaker cabinets and the face that the drivers are mounted on should always be as stiff as possible with the goal of keeping the driver frame as motionless as possible so that the only thing moving at all is the cone in reaction to the signal being fed to it.  Any movement of the driver or the whole cabinet will cause distortion because the movement of the frame will be added to the displacement of the cone by the input so the physical movement of the cone will therefor never be a match to the input signal.

In my CS-6s, Jim Theil formed the front face of the cabinet out of reinforced poured concrete to insure that the drivers were held solidly during operation. 165 lbs later there was no movement in those drivers.
Van Alstine SET 120 Control Amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Auralic Aries Mini & Mojo Audio lps
Audio Envy cables
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline doug s.

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Re: DIY roller blocks??
« Reply #100 on: April 14, 2021, 07:51:12 AM »
yup - you'd have to get shorter stands - perhaps some sort of end table or plant stand to use the iso's...

i'm glad that you feel you're unlikely to knock over your speakers.  in my bedroom, one of the kef ls50's lives a somewhat precarious existence...

doug s.
The main problem with these would be increasing the listening height. Iíve got my favorite chair and wouldnít want to have to sit on a couple of pillows. Thankfully Iím not close yet to being a danger to by beloved Fritzies....

i've heard good things about these, and they'd be on my short-list if i had a specific need they could fill.  afaik, they don't use springs, but i'm certain that if you contacted them, they could tell you exactly what it is that makes them tick.  (or at least enough w/o divulging any "secrets" - ha!)

doug s.

ps - if it were me, i'd be the one i'd worry about, knocking something over.   :mrgreen:

Guys, thanks for the input. Doug, Iím going through life solo nowadays and my cat behaves well around my audio system, so no worries of anything getting knocked over :) I was wondering though if this ISO product acted more like a spring than the Herbieís small fat dots that I just installed. This ISO product has always intrigued me, but Iíve never known anyone whoís owned them.


https://isoacoustics.com/products/aperta-series/


agreed w/below.  i'd also not use springs on stand-mounted speakers because i'd be worried about them being more susceptible to getting knocked over.

also, nobsound sells elsewhere.  i got my wife to cancel her amazon prime membership, and we won't ever shop amazon again. i recommend everyone do the same.  there's other places that you can shop w/o spending a fortune, that are less destructive of the economy and environment. i'm concerned about my kid's, niece's, grand-niece's/nephew's future...

doug s.
Springs can be tricky because the have resonance points of their own and and as such can actually end up introducing vibrations into the system. Also when used under a component that already has some kind of spring suspension in it the new springs can combine with the existing springs and shift a spring resonance that was carefully tuned in the original product to occur at a specific frequency where it is not a problem  move the resonance point of the new spring combination back into a spot where it will cause audible problems.

I would also never think about putting a spring product under any kind of speaker. Speaker cabinets and the face that the drivers are mounted on should always be as stiff as possible with the goal of keeping the driver frame as motionless as possible so that the only thing moving at all is the cone in reaction to the signal being fed to it.  Any movement of the driver or the whole cabinet will cause distortion because the movement of the frame will be added to the displacement of the cone by the input so the physical movement of the cone will therefor never be a match to the input signal.

In my CS-6s, Jim Theil formed the front face of the cabinet out of reinforced poured concrete to insure that the drivers were held solidly during operation. 165 lbs later there was no movement in those drivers.