AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Bipolar System Disorders => Topic started by: P.I. on April 11, 2021, 09:06:47 PM
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You go, Ted!
:thumb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKLuLfj2iC4
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Wow...wow... That is great! If Gene can’t make it, I’m ready to go! I don’t know much about Synergistic Research other than their well-known name and a few of their products.
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Video unavailable. Ted offered to pay the expenses for this fool to come measure His cables. It is now nasty as Ted is suing Him. Measurements matter however do NOT measure what a cable sounds like. This guy Gene contacted Teds dealers and reviewers bad mouthing Teds product as snake oil. Not cool. Lawsuit coming.
charles
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I have had this discussion on many occasions. If a number of people come to a consensus that two things sound different and one person can't measure a difference should the conclusion be that all the people who heard things are imagining it and there is not difference? No, my answer to that has always been if I can hear a difference and you can't measure it then you are obviously measuring the wrong things.
As far as I am concerned there are only two measurement devices on the planet that matter to me when it comes to audio and they live on either side of my head.
If somebody can do some empirical measurements that correlate with what I hear, great, I'm all for that. And as an engineer I am curious to know the whys of what goes on in my system. But when I come home and replace my engineer hat with my audiophile one the what it sounds like always takes precedence over why it sound like.
Because at that point it's all about the music and when I am in listening mode musical enjoyment becomes more important than technical understanding any day of the week.
If this guy gene does not like or think a cable product is useful or worth the money he has a real simple solution. Just don't buy it.
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I have had this discussion on many occasions. If a number of people come to a consensus that two things sound different and one person can't measure a difference should the conclusion be that all the people who heard things are imagining it and there is not difference? No, my answer to that has always been if I can hear a difference and you can't measure it then you are obviously measuring the wrong things.
As far as I am concerned there are only two measurement devices on the planet that matter to me when it comes to audio and they live on either side of my head.
If somebody can do some empirical measurements that correlate with what I hear, great, I'm all for that. And as an engineer I am curious to know the whys of what goes on in my system. But when I come home and replace my engineer hat with my audiophile one the what it sounds like always takes precedence over why it sound like.
Because at that point it's all about the music and when I am in listening mode musical enjoyment becomes more important than technical understanding any day of the week.
If this guy gene does not like or think a cable product is useful or worth the money he has a real simple solution. Just don't buy it.
The only companies that I know can prove their measurements are Shunyata, Swiss Cables and Belden. Can determine from measurements why it sounds the way it does. Belden cables start at $650/mtr [ Iconoclast ] and Shunyata can be off the charts expensive Swiss Cable $1250/mtr and higher. Not insulting or putting down other Manfs as I do not know their design parameters just their sound.
I like a Cable Manf that measures , blind tests and sells a complete product from end to end. IMHO it is the entire assembly not one facet of it. That synergy we talk about is the LCR match from component to component not luck. The only luck involved for us is finding that Cable.
charles
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Back to subject. This Guy Gene is not alone in the Industry. Trying to make a name for himself as our "Night in Shining Armor". All Amps do not sound the same, etc,etc.
charles
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Interesting.
The video was already taken down. :?
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Interesting.
The video was already taken down. :?
Lawsuit pending against Audioholics I believe.
charles
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Interesting.
The video was already taken down. :?
Lawsuit pending against Audioholics I believe.
charles
Goodbye Audioholics
Never understood the animosity towards cable manufactures and those that purchase from them.
Live and let live
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Interesting.
The video was already taken down. :?
https://vimeo.com/536865025?fbclid=IwAR2nyh3qUGM1SxJMNltfEH0VryRMH-k1LPajJzwnFL8FbMOK_47CYPjuOcY
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I just had my first unpleasant experience with Ted. On his FB page someone asked him why he doesn't go to Capital Audiofest. His snarky response was that it was a "DIY show". I said to him that companies of all sizes and all products are there. He was condescending in his reply basically shaming any company that he didn't feel was a major player. I think this is a bad attitude. I stated that "you have to start somewhere" and that big companies were small at one time and big audio companies may consider him (SR) DIY. He countered that he is a big company and a leader.
Ok my point is that I believe that we should be open to what all audio companies bring to our hobby. This is what advances our field. There are some incredibly smart engineers in audio that are just not good businessman. But they have great ideas and have made valuable contributions. If we are asked by Ted to keep an open mind that his products can bring improvement to sound then he should keep an open mind that these small companies can bring value in the industry.
I unfollowed his group as I can not be part of that type of thinking.
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I just had my first unpleasant experience with Ted. On his FB page someone asked him why he doesn't go to Capital Audiofest. His snarky response was that it was a "DIY show". I said to him that companies of all sizes and all products are there. He was condescending in his reply basically shaming any company that he didn't feel was a major player. I think this is a bad attitude. I stated that "you have to start somewhere" and that big companies were small at one time and big audio companies may consider him (SR) DIY. He countered that he is a big company and a leader.
Ok my point is that I believe that we should be open to what all audio companies bring to our hobby. This is what advances our field. There are some incredibly smart engineers in audio that are just not good businessman. But they have great ideas and have made valuable contributions. If we are asked by Ted to keep an open mind that his products can bring improvement to sound then he should keep an open mind that these small companies can bring value in the industry.
I unfollowed his group as I can not be part of that type of thinking.
Hmmm. ... interesting logic. I’m not sure how anyone can become a major player if they don’t start by being a small player :roll:
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I just had my first unpleasant experience with Ted. On his FB page someone asked him why he doesn't go to Capital Audiofest. His snarky response was that it was a "DIY show". I said to him that companies of all sizes and all products are there. He was condescending in his reply basically shaming any company that he didn't feel was a major player. I think this is a bad attitude. I stated that "you have to start somewhere" and that big companies were small at one time and big audio companies may consider him (SR) DIY. He countered that he is a big company and a leader.
Ok my point is that I believe that we should be open to what all audio companies bring to our hobby. This is what advances our field. There are some incredibly smart engineers in audio that are just not good businessman. But they have great ideas and have made valuable contributions. If we are asked by Ted to keep an open mind that his products can bring improvement to sound then he should keep an open mind that these small companies can bring value in the industry.
I unfollowed his group as I can not be part of that type of thinking.
Hmmm. ... interesting logic. I’m not sure how anyone can become a major player if they don’t start being a small player :roll:
Yea, he was like, those guys are amateur hour I'm the real deal kind of attitude. I dont like that. I love the small companies for the passion that they have.
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Agree 100%. If I can I always try to buy my gear from the small cottage industry guys.
Choose wisely and you get excellent performance, personal service, and great value. :thumb:
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Personally, I could care less about gene What's-his-foot or Ted Denney.
However...
I think it sucks that there is the constant pissing contest and denigration of others from BOTH sides of the conversation... any conversation. We have gotten to THAT place where if someone disagrees with another person the disagreeable party is viewed as a moron, idiot, N*zi or the Anti-Christ. I don't get it. People should be able to agree to disagree and remain civil.
Concerning the topic at hand, I think Denney's SOTA listening room is a bit of a joke: heavy on gear and nowhere on treatment that will allow the gear to blossom. Gene, OTOH, is just a jerk when it comes to being a slanderer.
TMSAISTI
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Agree 100%. If I can I always try to buy my gear from the small cottage industry guys.
Choose wisely and you get excellent performance, personal service, and great value. :thumb:
And the little guys that offer great performance at a reasonable cost say THANK YOU!!! :thumb:
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Agree 100%. If I can I always try to buy my gear from the small cottage industry guys.
Choose wisely and you get excellent performance, personal service, and great value. :thumb:
And the little guys that offer great performance at a reasonable cost say THANK YOU!!! :thumb:
YES! Thank you kindly! :thumb:
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Agree 100%. If I can I always try to buy my gear from the small cottage industry guys.
Choose wisely and you get excellent performance, personal service, and great value. :thumb:
And the little guys that offer great performance at a reasonable cost say THANK YOU!!! :thumb:
YES! Thank you kindly! :thumb:
I cant talk to you Pete, your the little guy and only little guys pay taxes Lol! :rofl:
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Slander is the issue not ones personality. Gene has slandered Teds company and His Dealers. Not cool. Reviewers as well. Saw Ted at CAF a few years back. We have a VG friendship. Ted sells a lot of product has made out very well. Yes He is pompous and likes to show His shit off. Ted offers cables from $650 to insane. I do not use His cabling.
charles
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Personally, I could care less about gene What's-his-foot or Ted Denney.
However...
I think it sucks that there is the constant pissing contest and denigration of others from BOTH sides of the conversation... any conversation. We have gotten to THAT place where if someone disagrees with another person the disagreeable party is viewed as a moron, idiot, N*zi or the Anti-Christ. I don't get it. People should be able to agree to disagree and remain civil.
Concerning the topic at hand, I think Denney's SOTA listening room is a bit of a joke: heavy on gear and nowhere on treatment that will allow the gear to blossom. Gene, OTOH, is just a jerk when it comes to being a slanderer.
TMSAISTI
Dave did you see the latest photos of that room ? lots of treatments. Would like to hear the end result.
charles
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Personally, I could care less about gene What's-his-foot or Ted Denney.
However...
I think it sucks that there is the constant pissing contest and denigration of others from BOTH sides of the conversation... any conversation. We have gotten to THAT place where if someone disagrees with another person the disagreeable party is viewed as a moron, idiot, N*zi or the Anti-Christ. I don't get it. People should be able to agree to disagree and remain civil.
Concerning the topic at hand, I think Denney's SOTA listening room is a bit of a joke: heavy on gear and nowhere on treatment that will allow the gear to blossom. Gene, OTOH, is just a jerk when it comes to being a slanderer.
TMSAISTI
Dave did you see the latest photos of that room ? lots of treatments. Would like to hear the end result.
charles
Nope. I need to find some of thr new photos and I'll temper my comments until I do. Great gear in there...
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Personally, I could care less about gene What's-his-foot or Ted Denney.
However...
I think it sucks that there is the constant pissing contest and denigration of others from BOTH sides of the conversation... any conversation. We have gotten to THAT place where if someone disagrees with another person the disagreeable party is viewed as a moron, idiot, N*zi or the Anti-Christ. I don't get it. People should be able to agree to disagree and remain civil.
Concerning the topic at hand, I think Denney's SOTA listening room is a bit of a joke: heavy on gear and nowhere on treatment that will allow the gear to blossom. Gene, OTOH, is just a jerk when it comes to being a slanderer.
TMSAISTI
The thing that really gets under my skin about these types of pissing contests is that there is a very simple answer to the questions. If you feel that a particular product does not do what they claim or is way overpriced for what it does, THEN DON'T BUY IT! Nobody if forcing anyone to use a particular piece of gear in their system.
I personally resent somebody like this guy Gene telling me what will or will not sound good in my system. It's my money, my choice and if I decide something makes a improvement that is worth the asking price, my right to do so. If something is truly BS then it will end up not selling and the market will have the final say as to if it is a worth while product. All anyone can do in reporting about performance is to tell us how the feel the product did in their own personal system. Just because something did not play well with your set of gear does not mean that it won't play well with mine. And I have experienced that first hand on numerous occasions, excitingly bringing a new find to a buddy's house only to find it sound like a dud there even though it sounded great at my house.
Bottom line, my system is built and voiced for one person and one person only, me. I will put into it what I feel helps bring me, personally, more musical enjoyment regardless of how it works, or measures, or what anyone else thinks of the choice. Enjoy sharing the experience with others, but do not feel the need to have anyone else validate my choices. If someone disagrees with my choices, I respect their right to that opinion, but I simply don't care. I don't need to please anyone but myself. And after 40 years in this hobby I am perfectly capable of deciding what does and does sound better in my own system. I certainly don't need somebody like this guy Gene, who thinks he can tell me how a component will sound in my house without the slightest clue about what my equipment of musical preferences are. Last I heard we listen with our ears, not meters and scopes.
And just for the record, I have never owned nor even auditioned any SR products in my system, so this post has nothing to do with Gene's comments about SR, just about what I feel is his audacity to think that his test equipment could do a better job than my own ears in blindly making decisions for me on what I should or should not buy.
Sorry people like that just get under my skin.
Rant over.
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Personally, I could care less about gene What's-his-foot or Ted Denney.
However...
I think it sucks that there is the constant pissing contest and denigration of others from BOTH sides of the conversation... any conversation. We have gotten to THAT place where if someone disagrees with another person the disagreeable party is viewed as a moron, idiot, N*zi or the Anti-Christ. I don't get it. People should be able to agree to disagree and remain civil.
Concerning the topic at hand, I think Denney's SOTA listening room is a bit of a joke: heavy on gear and nowhere on treatment that will allow the gear to blossom. Gene, OTOH, is just a jerk when it comes to being a slanderer.
TMSAISTI
The thing that really gets under my skin about these types of pissing contests is that there is a very simple answer to the questions. If you feel that a particular product does not do what they claim or is way overpriced for what it does, THEN DON'T BUY IT! Nobody if forcing anyone to use a particular piece of gear in their system.
I personally resent somebody like this guy Gene telling me what will or will not sound good in my system. It's my money, my choice and if I decide something makes a improvement that is worth the asking price, my right to do so. If something is truly BS then it will end up not selling and the market will have the final say as to if it is a worth while product. All anyone can do in reporting about performance is to tell us how the feel the product did in their own personal system. Just because something did not play well with your set of gear does not mean that it won't play well with mine. And I have experienced that first hand on numerous occasions, excitingly bringing a new find to a buddy's house only to find it sound like a dud there even though it sounded great at my house.
Bottom line, my system is built and voiced for one person and one person only, me. I will put into it what I feel helps bring me, personally, more musical enjoyment regardless of how it works, or measures, or what anyone else thinks of the choice. Enjoy sharing the experience with others, but do not feel the need to have anyone else validate my choices. If someone disagrees with my choices, I respect their right to that opinion, but I simply don't care. I don't need to please anyone but myself. And after 40 years in this hobby I am perfectly capable of deciding what does and does sound better in my own system. I certainly don't need somebody like this guy Gene, who thinks he can tell me how a component will sound in my house without the slightest clue about what my equipment of musical preferences are. Last I heard we listen with our ears, not meters and scopes.
And just for the record, I have never owned nor even auditioned any SR products in my system, so this post has nothing to do with Gene's comments about SR, just about what I feel is his audacity to think that his test equipment could do a better job than my own ears in blindly making decisions for me on what I should or should not buy.
Sorry people like that just get under my skin.
Rant over.
Exactly. Well said.
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+2 Tom well said
charles
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Personally, I could care less about gene What's-his-foot or Ted Denney.
However...
I think it sucks that there is the constant pissing contest and denigration of others from BOTH sides of the conversation... any conversation. We have gotten to THAT place where if someone disagrees with another person the disagreeable party is viewed as a moron, idiot, N*zi or the
Anti-Christ. I don't get it. People should be able to agree to disagree and remain civil.
Concerning the topic at hand, I think Denney's SOTA listening room is a bit of a joke: heavy on gear and nowhere on treatment that will allow the gear to blossom. Gene, OTOH, is just a jerk when it comes to being a slanderer.
TMSAISTI
The thing that really gets under my skin about these types of pissing contests is that there is a very simple answer to the questions. If you feel that a particular product does not do what they claim or is way overpriced for what it does, THEN DON'T BUY IT! Nobody if forcing anyone to use a particular piece of gear in their system.
I personally resent somebody like this guy Gene telling me what will or will not sound good in my system. It's my money, my choice and if I decide something makes a improvement that is worth the asking price, my right to do so. If something is truly BS then it will end up not selling and the market will have the final say as to if it is a worth while product. All anyone can do in reporting about performance is to tell us how the feel the product did in their own personal system. Just because something did not play well with your set of gear does not mean that it won't play well with mine. And I have experienced that first hand on numerous occasions, excitingly bringing a new find to a buddy's house only to find it sound like a dud there even though it sounded great at my house.
Bottom line, my system is built and voiced for one person and one person only, me. I will put into it what I feel helps bring me, personally, more musical enjoyment regardless of how it works, or measures, or what anyone else thinks of the choice. Enjoy sharing the experience with others, but do not feel the need to have anyone else validate my choices. If someone disagrees with my choices, I respect their right to that opinion, but I simply don't care. I don't need to please anyone but myself. And after 40 years in this hobby I am perfectly capable of deciding what does and does sound better in my own system. I certainly don't need somebody like this guy Gene, who thinks he can tell me how a component will sound in my house without the slightest clue about what my equipment of musical preferences are. Last I heard we listen with our ears, not meters and scopes.
And just for the record, I have never owned nor even auditioned any SR products in my system, so this post has nothing to do with Gene's comments about SR, just about what I feel is his audacity to think that his test equipment could do a better job than my own ears in blindly making decisions for me on what I should or should not buy.
Sorry people like that just get under my skin.
Rant over.
Exactly. Well said.
Great minds think alike. :thumb:
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Slander is the issue not ones personality. Gene has slandered Teds company and His Dealers. Not cool. Reviewers as well. Saw Ted at CAF a few years back. We have a VG friendship. Ted sells a lot of product has made out very well. Yes He is pompous and likes to show His shit off. Ted offers cables from $650 to insane. I do not use His cabling.
charles
Hi Charles,
I understand. When I reminisced my first test 10A was returned to me, literally ball peened hammered by a major online reviewer, because I would not sell it to them under the table for $300.00 ($1200.00 normal price).
The same online mag (soon after combining with another online mag) tried twice more over the years to discredit my products. So instead of a positive review, I started seeing questionable and negative posts of my products on forums, negative posts even from a third online magazine I had no dealings with, or was even familiar with.
--------------------------- In General
Regarding "pissing" contests, either the scientist is lacking understanding or is a shill (some really are), or the diyer does not understand (but then he is not expected to), or more than likely, both post faulty information/science.
I am not the only one as Jneutron also discovered the problem as well. (Jneutron is a scientist who has worked at FermiLab, helped with creating Cern, Brookhaven National Laboratory, taught classes to other scientists etc.)
There is no doubt that interconnect cables (ics) can make a sonic difference regardless of measurements because some parameters are not measurable, such as smearing. Measuring to -150db does not mean one can reliably measure to 0,01db. Understanding basic physics is also a necessary discipline. Another variable is how much does one's venue/system mask low level information. Heavier masking means less sonic difference perceived.
Well, that is my rant for now. Cheers.
steve
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Hey Steve just noticed your response. We have had slander and grief from disgruntled reviewers and Rags in general. We are not alone several others have reported same and choose to remain silent.
At the end of the day the "SOUND" is all that matters not measurements.
charles
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Hey Steve just noticed your response. We have had slander and grief from disgruntled reviewers and Rags in general. We are not alone several others have reported same and choose to remain silent.
At the end of the day the "SOUND" is all that matters not measurements.
charles
I believe Charles. Over the past 20 years I have noticed that it is the public never seems to "profit". There are a couple or maybe three I would consider honest, the rest I question.
I just read two articles, one comparing capacitors and the other an xxx review. These two articles could not have done more damage to audio if they had tried. Sad indeed. Completely inept.
I have a slightly different philosophy in that the measurements must be excellent but the final judgement is still the ear. I just saw a DAC with great reviews, but with a frequency response (FR) of -3db at 20hz. That immediately tells me there is a compromise or more elsewhere(s). Something(s) is being offered on the sacrificial table.
Like you Charles, I always thought it should be the music lover/audiophile that should end up the winner.
cheers
steve