Author Topic: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour  (Read 44404 times)

Offline richidoo

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2012, 01:58:21 PM »
I've been listening for a couple days to the 7+ and I like it. I have to disassemble my speakers for mods so I won't be doing much listening for a few days.

My system is econowave delite diy speakers, AR VT100mk3, buffalo2 direct to amp via trannies. JPS wire except the PC. Dedicated 20A service to Hubbell hospital grade duplex. Amp and DAC share the duplex. Another identical Black Sand PC powered the DAC.

I compared the Triode Wire 7 to Black Sand Silver Reference 5. on the power amp. I mostly used my primary test track which is the 'Prelude' movement of Kalevi Aho's Symphonic Dances.
http://www.amazon.com/Kalevi-Aho-Symphonic-Dances-Symphony/dp/B0001LYG3A
Also some Felix Hell organ music and a run through my general test track playlist of well recorded pop, jazz and classical tracks.

In back and forth direct comparisons with the same music the Black Sands was slightly more macro dynamic and open sounding, with darker and deeper background space and slightly more tonal detail. The audiophile in me likes the Black Sand in these quick-switch comparisons. The Triode had slightly thicker and warmer tone which I liked because it prevented distraction from excessive details and allows deeper listening trance. The music lover in me likes the Triode. The tone density of the Triode is better, especially on non-acoustic instruments of popular music genres where audiophile cues less important than ballsy melody and feel. On acoustic instruments where tonal detail is the thrill, the slightly more detailed BS edged the Triode, but that's part of what I call distraction. On my speakers, with ultra detailed Radian 475PB compression drivers in a big horn, the Triode brought balance to a slightly antsy top end. In long listening sessions with the Triode Wire I liked the feeling of freedom to choose to focus on tonal details and spatial cues or I could choose to ignore those sonic illusions and listen deeper to melody and musical intent. With the Black Sands I am more prone to listen to sound quality and sonic realism cues more. The Triode 7 is plenty detailed, but not overly. In fact, the openness of the large gage conductor and lovely sunny feel of the copper is the first thing I noticed on first listen, before the comparisons.

Since the differences I heard between these wires correspond with stereotypical sonic difference of silver vs copper, I think that's mostly the reason for the differences that I heard. Both wires are very well constructed and adequate gage for feeding the big transformer of the VT100.

Both cables kicked ass on big crescendos and organ pedals where fast current matters. I could live happily with either of these wires.

Thanks very much to Pete for sending the wire down here for a tour. I haven't done a listening comparison in a long time, it was fun!
Rich

Offline Triode Pete

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2012, 08:05:38 PM »
Thank you, Mike & Rich!  :thumb:

I'm glad you like my latest & greatest cord! :)

Who's next on the list? Anyone else interested for an aural taste?

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Offline richidoo

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2012, 07:20:02 AM »
I'm bringing it over to Carlman's house on Tuesday for a quick listen.

Who wants it next?

Offline rollo

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2012, 07:52:38 AM »
   Rich glad you got a chance to listen to Pete's cords. They will be even better after 350 hours. The heavy GA. as well as thick dielectric just takes time. We have noticed the sound change several times before the 350 hour mark. After that more open, tighter bass and a very natural top end. A  smidgen on the warm side of neutral but never thick or muffled, or colored enough to matter. Plenty of detail.
   As you know Pete is one of our club members and personal friends. When Pete first started out I guess many comments were considered "friendly" hype or schilling by some members.  Now that others have heard what we were talking about all is well.


charles 
   
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Offline mdconnelly

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2012, 02:31:07 PM »
For what it's worth,  I had the cord powering my system for 8 days (barely half of that 350 hours), and of that time, it probably only got 50+ hours of playing time.  I heard it change a lot in the first few days. 

Offline Carlman

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2012, 07:26:24 PM »
Rich brought over Pete's cord today (THANK YOU!)... pretty nice sound, I must say... I compared it to the Black Sand Statement Elite series cable that never made it to market.  It's John's best, over-the-top design.  I have a prototype.  

My preamp is the most sensitive to PC's so that's where I use it.  McIntosh amps do something to condition power so PC's don't make much of a difference there.  There is some, but it is very subtle.  

Anyway, we swapped in Pete's cord after putting on a couple of reference tracks... Radiohead's latest album and a Beethoven septet doing music I've never heard that Rich brought over.  (We also later swapped back to the BS PC to confirm what we were hearing)

After installing Pete's cord, everything got a lovely warm glow to it, round and beautiful.. yet forceful.  Some transient attack edginess was missing and replaced with more subtle transitions.  It did make for a more musical sound overall. The mids seemed thick and rich which I liked.  It wasn't mushy, just rounded.

However, it's not my preference to turn off the snap or bite of my music.  For someone with a more aggressive or cold system, this PC would bring a little balance by warming it up and giving it a little more tubey kind of sound.

It's a great cord and I would be quite pleased with it for musical satisfaction or to tone down a system with a little too much sizzle.  I am looking for absolute purity and detail, though so I'm not going to switch what I have.

I would be very interested to hear it compared to the JPS AC+.  I should've run up to Shane's and gotten one for this comparison but I thought about it too late.  IIRC, the AC+ brought the best of the BS Elite and Pete's cord in 1.  

-C
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 07:31:14 PM by Carlman »
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Offline tmazz

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2012, 04:32:42 AM »
Rich brought over Pete's cord today (THANK YOU!)... pretty nice sound, I must say... I compared it to the Black Sand Statement Elite series cable that never made it to market.  It's John's best, over-the-top design.  I have a prototype.  

My preamp is the most sensitive to PC's so that's where I use it.  McIntosh amps do something to condition power so PC's don't make much of a difference there.  There is some, but it is very subtle.  


That's interesting because in my case the power amp was where Pete's cords made the biggest impact. and it was not just with one amp the results were similar with the ARC VT-200, the Classe 25 and the Moscode 600.

I wonder what it is that McI does to their power supplies that makes them so insensitive to PC changes (and I mean this in a good way sinc ein my mind this means that the power supply is doing such a good job that it doesn't need any help from the PC.)
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Offline Carlman

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2012, 05:55:47 AM »
It's definitely a Mac thing, Tom.  They pride themselves on power conditioning within the amp... I'm pretty sure they enjoy the fact that any 'adequate' power cord will sound the same.  Now, if they sold cabling, things might change. ;)
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Offline richidoo

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2012, 06:56:54 AM »
I read the owners manual for your amp Carl. I didn't see any mention of power conditioner built in. I told you it did have built in conditioning yesterday because a local dealer once told me that he learned it at McIntosh dealer training he attended when they took on the brand. He said that their all-Mac demo sounded so awful on my previous visit because of the power conditioning they used on the whole system, but then added the lie that Macs don't need any additional power protection because it is built in. He was deceptive with me on other occasions. He was eventually fired, then the dealership lost McIntosh, then eventually went belly up. McIntosh is now at our big super-dealer and that salesperson also works there. Sorry for giving you the wrong info.

I submitted a question on McIntosh online form asking for clarification. I'll post the reply here.

Also, it is "only" 110 pounds, not 142 pounds. Maybe that is the shipping weight, or just more erroneous info picked up on the web.

EDIT:
Response from Chuck Hinton in one hour  :thumb:

"There is some basic surge suppression in the amps, plus the very well designed power supply does not need filtering as much as some other brands might, but the main reason to not use a Power Conditioner  ( a surge suppressor is fine) is many power conditioners can limit current to the amplifier and impede it’s performance. "
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 08:31:51 AM by richidoo »

Offline Triode Pete

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2012, 06:22:05 PM »
Rich brought over Pete's cord today (THANK YOU!)... pretty nice sound, I must say... I compared it to the Black Sand Statement Elite series cable that never made it to market.  It's John's best, over-the-top design.  I have a prototype.  

My preamp is the most sensitive to PC's so that's where I use it.  McIntosh amps do something to condition power so PC's don't make much of a difference there.  There is some, but it is very subtle.  

Anyway, we swapped in Pete's cord after putting on a couple of reference tracks... Radiohead's latest album and a Beethoven septet doing music I've never heard that Rich brought over.  (We also later swapped back to the BS PC to confirm what we were hearing)

After installing Pete's cord, everything got a lovely warm glow to it, round and beautiful.. yet forceful.  Some transient attack edginess was missing and replaced with more subtle transitions.  It did make for a more musical sound overall. The mids seemed thick and rich which I liked.  It wasn't mushy, just rounded.

However, it's not my preference to turn off the snap or bite of my music.  For someone with a more aggressive or cold system, this PC would bring a little balance by warming it up and giving it a little more tubey kind of sound.

It's a great cord and I would be quite pleased with it for musical satisfaction or to tone down a system with a little too much sizzle.  I am looking for absolute purity and detail, though so I'm not going to switch what I have.

I would be very interested to hear it compared to the JPS AC+.  I should've run up to Shane's and gotten one for this comparison but I thought about it too late.  IIRC, the AC+ brought the best of the BS Elite and Pete's cord in 1.  

-C

Thanks Carl! for your kind comments & to Rich for bringing it over!

After listening, you probably can understand why the word "Triode" is in Triode Wire Labs... my goal in testing & developing my cords was to produce an extremely quiet, natural & musically organic sounding PC without the overly detailed hi-fi sizzle found in a lot of audiophile products.

In my prototypes, I probably achieved (and some cases exceeded) the detail level you heard in your Black Sand Cable. Simply by changing one or both copper C13 IEC and NEMA 5-15 plugs to a Rhodium-plated type adds measurable upper end detail, which I thought appeared to be slightly colored to my ears & others in my test set-ups (using my 104 dB horns or my Tannoy Gold dual concentrics). Also, the engineer in me realizes that Rhodium is a poor conductor and in my testing, I put a full 15 amp load on my cords and the rhodium plugs consistently were warm to the touch whereas the copper were always cool. 8) Also, I noted that increasing the amount of passive filtering gave more detail as well.  If an audiophile requires a very detailed cable while retaining the other TWL qualities, this is very achievable by simply changing some of the build materials and parameters...

Through the help of my ten beta testers, I was able to achieve what I thought (& others) was a very balanced & open sound... of course, system synergy is key as always & YMMV...

Thanks again,
Pete
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Offline Carlman

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2012, 07:46:28 PM »
Pete, thanks for your comments.  Glad you know enough about what you're doing to tilt it in the direction of a user's tastes... that's rare to come by.  Also note that I am comparing changes to my own idea of what I want.  "How does it sound compared to what I want?"  And I'm asking what it gives me compared to what I have on hand to try...

If you can tailor your cords and offer that to your customers, that's unique and awesome.  One recipe for everyone will always have a bell curve of acceptance.  Having that tweak-ability will certainly widen the curve or open the door to more folks... but there has to be a line of where do you stop so you don't go nuts making a million different cords. ;)

-C

PS, Rich I was talking from my own experience.. I've tried many PC's on my amp.  I've always heard/believed the power supply/circuitry is a form of power conditioning by design...
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 07:50:21 PM by Carlman »
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Offline mdconnelly

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2012, 01:16:14 PM »
So who has the "Seven+" power cord at this point?   Anyone else interested in trying this cord?   

Since it started with me, I kinda need to let Pete know where it stands and where it's going.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2012, 04:03:18 PM »
I still have it. Does anyone else want to try it at home?
Shane, Richard, Steve, Ken?

Offline etcarroll

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2012, 04:25:21 PM »
Hey Pete -

When the blokes in NC are done, any chance it could stop off in PA on it's way back to LI?
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Offline Triode Pete

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Re: Triode Wire Labs "Seven Plus" Power Cable NC tour
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2012, 05:01:02 AM »
Hey Pete -

When the blokes in NC are done, any chance it could stop off in PA on it's way back to LI?

Yo Gene...
I see why not... please make arrangements with Rich...

Happy Friday everyone,
Pete
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