the Grover Tour begins.

[rollo]

    About 25 hours so far and they are a changing. A tad warm and need to open up a bit.
 Usually when a cables midrange is VG from a cold start the results are favorable in the end result. It appears that is what we have here.
  So far no harm other than typical break - in - itus. Meaning not fully open at the extremes. A very good sign is zero hardness, brightness or the worst of the worst exaggerated sibilance. That alone would send these babies south for the Winter. 
  In a nutshell, so far very musical. Maybe a tad warm. Jury still out on overall character until 150 hours is reached.



charles
SMA

[evan1]

 Charles get the burned in real good before you hand them off to me

[rollo]

Charles get the burned in real good before you hand them off to me

  Your wish is my command. Done


charles
SMA

 

[shep]

I was going to stay out of this but am a little irked at it being said that far more expensive cables are a rip-off. I am not talking about cables that cost as much as a tuition to Harvard. I want to make clear I am not undermining Grover's work. In fact I more experience here than anyone, having used probably five generations of his over several years. Yes they are very good for the money. I will keep the set I have as a backup. I did a rather serious listening with a very knowledgeable audiophile friend with a system very different from my own, using his own home-made brand of solid-core silver and cotton cables, Grover's latest (mine anyway) and my new ones. I have already mentioned these and it's not fair to go there again. Yes they are very expensive, by any reasonable person's standard and yes they are that much better and I am not alone in hearing this. Are Grover's cables good. Yes very much so. But please stop this nonsense of condemning pricier ones if you haven't heard the difference. It's unfair to the people who do make a pretty limited living for making them and it's not fair in fact to misrepresent the facts. Over and out
Mods if you want to delete, go for it, but I have never lost my cool before so maybe this should just be displaced.   

[tmazz]

I was going to stay out of this but am a little irked at it being said that far more expensive cables are a rip-off. I am not talking about cables that cost as much as a tuition to Harvard. I want to make clear I am not undermining Grover's work. In fact I more experience here than anyone, having used probably five generations of his over several years. Yes they are very good for the money. I will keep the set I have as a backup. I did a rather serious listening with a very knowledgeable audiophile friend with a system very different from my own, using his own home-made brand of solid-core silver and cotton cables, Grover's latest (mine anyway) and my new ones. I have already mentioned these and it's not fair to go there again. Yes they are very expensive, by any reasonable person's standard and yes they are that much better and I am not alone in hearing this. Are Grover's cables good. Yes very much so. But please stop this nonsense of condemning pricier ones if you haven't heard the difference. It's unfair to the people who do make a pretty limited living for making them and it's not fair in fact to misrepresent the facts. Over and out
Mods if you want to delete, go for it, but I have never lost my cool before so maybe this should just be displaced.   

Shep I don't think you are out of line and you make a very valid point. You cannot make any kind of valid judgement on a product by price alone. There are all kinds of products that perform way batter than they have any right to for the price that is chag=rged for them. (We all love thoise kind of bargins.) And there are also pieces tthat don't come near the performance that you would expect given their high prices, not to mention all kinds of combinations in between. The only way to sort them out is to listen. And once you listen then determine if the SQ the provide is worth the cash they are asking for them. If yes, you buy them, if no you pass. It's that simple.

[BobM]

There are also thoise times when a "frend" brings over an expensive cable for you to try out and ZINGO, there goes the college fund. They are just so much better than what you have.

But there are also those times when the expensive product, which makes all the difference in the world in their system, makes no appreciable difference in yours, or even sounds worse.

It's all about synergies, and what you consider important to you, soundwise and budget wise.

But we all know this. We've all heard it so many times before. The only way to know is to try for yourself, in your system, with your musical preferences, and your own ears (as opposed to borrowing someone else's ears and slipping them on, I guess). It is good to have open minded people who are willing to try these out and give honest feedback, as well as a manufacturer who is willing to receive that feedback. I'm sure some will love them and some will say they are no better than what they have now, whatever the relative price points are.

Synergy.

[rollo]

   Shep. We love ya here rant away you are entitled. In general I have always had a pet peeve with ultra high cable costs. No what is high to me may not be to someone else. All in the eye of the beholder.
    For me the Cottage industry cable makers can and do offer quality and good price. Big Company's like Tara, MIT, Kimber, Cardas, Nordost, JPS and the like are different. Their overhead with advertising costs, promo. [ shows] and  dealer mark up are some of the reason. The other reason is they are big names that can demand a higher price. It's called business.
   
     Now a fair price for me may be to expensive or not expensive to someone else. Go figure. It is in the eye of the beholder.
    What I do agree with is hands on experience. If one has not experienced a particular cable there should be NO OPINION offered. Period. Just because it may cost a lot is not  a reason to dis the cable in question.
   I myself have been quality of such, stood corrected and have learned otherwise. To date nothing has been able to out perform the Harmonix Golden ratio IC at $2800 for 1.5 mtrs in my system. Nada. Close maybe but no cigar.

   Now back to Grover's latest offering. So far these cables are the Cat's meow in my system. I do not know how much they cost and frankly did not want to know before trying them. They clearly have a better synergy than the Harmonix.
  Does that mean that Harmonix is ripping people off. No it means that someone else has made a cable less expensively  and different [  better for my system]. One size does not fit all. I do not believe there is a best anything. The Harmonix may very well in another system may be preferred Grover's cable. Again, one size does not fit all. If I did not experience Grover's cable the Harmonix would still be fine. Live and learn.
   So if a cable floats one boat and one is willing to pay dearly or inexpensively for that God bless.
   So Grover how much are these babies ??? Be gentle.


charles
SMA
 

[richidoo]

I second shep's sentiment about the value of Grover's wires. Grover ICs were always a good value among budget priced high end wires, especially if detail is your thing.  You guys will have fun with the tour.

Oh and one more thing, try not to let price prejudice influence your judgement. You know this cable costs 10 times more so it has to sound better. You'd be surprised how often I encounter this, and how the mind works.

Audiophiles in 2011...   

Don't underestimate the ability of ANers to recognize good value when they hear it. And don't bash expensive wires or the people who buy them, even in subtle insinuation. There is a new rule enacted earlier this year:
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2860.msg32474#msg32474

[shep]

I missed the new rules. Nice way of putting it Rich. Sweet and to the point. I especially like pointing out the difference between Childlike and Childish. We are an inquisitive, acquisitive and sensitive lot and it's easy to cross the line. I  over-reacted a bit but apparently I made my point. I have no issue with hearing cables that out-perform mine either but I would rather not...I really blew the budget on that one.

[grover]

Hi Shep, you haven't heard these cables, they are much better than the ones you tried.

[mdconnelly]

Grover, I'm curious.... I am still using a pair of your "SX" designated ICs in my vinyl rig.  I think I upgraded to the "SX" around 2 years ago or so.  What are the new ICs called and how have they changed (materials and sonically) since my version?

Thanks!

[rlmacklin]

The Grover ICs I received end of last week (and finally got installed throughout my 5.0 system Saturday night) are designated "Grover Zx" and have the new "Genesis" rhodium over copper RCAs which are really clean/clear. (Grover said these are from Taiwan and he mentions them on his website.)  The dielectric may also be changed and the gauges or proportions of silver, copper and aluminum ribbons used.

I have used at least as many generations of Grovers ICs over the years as Shep (and possibly more?).

My system has a new since July FL/FR preamp - ModWright LS100 with 1957 metal base Philips Miniwatt rectifier tube and 2 Sophia Electric 6SN7 signal tubes.
I recently got a ModWright 2-channel tube-modded and rest of channels solid state modded Oppo BDP-95 universal player (Dan used mine as a demo at RMAF) with 1957 metal base Philips Miniwatt rectifier tube and 2 Sophia Electric 6SN7 signal tubes, as well as Bybee Music Rails on each ESS 9018 Sabre DAC.

The system sounded excellent with the Grover SX ICs I have had for a year or two.
The Grover ZX ICs definitely "synergize" better - taking my system to a new level and allowing the sonic qualities of the new components to absolutely shine.
If not the "cat's meow,"
I sure have a Cheshire cat grin now when listening.
 

[grover]

Grover, I'm curious.... I am still using a pair of your "SX" designated ICs in my vinyl rig.  I think I upgraded to the "SX" around 2 years ago or so.  What are the new ICs called and how have they changed (materials and sonically) since my version?

Thanks!

Hi Mike the new cables are called the Zx, they are much better in all aspects than the Sx, practically all the materials have changed or have been modified.  I'm very please rollo is enjoying them. A 1 meter RCA to RCA pair of the Zx costs $200, I hate to say it as here comes the price prejudice. I'm always amazed how price influences perception. I think folks would like my cables much more if I charged $1000. But that's not for me.

[mdconnelly]

Grover, trust me when I say that ...

a) I would not like them more at $1000
b) I would not be more likely to buy them at $1000
c) I am thankful that you don't try to sell them at $1000!

If they do make it t this area (I seem to remember Carl signing up for the tour) I hope to get a chance to hear them!

[evan1]

Thanks!

I think folks would like my cables much more if I charged $1000. But that's not for me.

It's for me  So just mail me the $800.00 difference