If anyone needs to contact me.

[satfrat]

Thanks Robin!
I know I was supported in other ways...that's all that matters

Socrates had to drink the hemlock..he didn't have to, but it was a symbol.

Some may consider my banishment the result of my stupidity, I consider it a symbol.

It really is not a big deal. I am not the type to pussyfoot around if they let me back in, my fingers will hit the keyboard and it will start all over again, it is probably better for AC and myself to remain banished.

Thanks

Mike
Mike

Well that's your choice Mike but the whole idea behind AC is to have a friendly audio based community based on selfmonitoring memebers. Nobody twists your arm to go into these product Circle who's gear you don't even own and stir up gear owning members with your opinions about both their gear and about them in general. It's just not being friendly IMHO.

On the other hand, a company who allows the type of immature behavior that was exhibited in the Bryston Circle to me doesn't reflect a whole lot of world class excellence that their product line is suppose to be all about. A down right obnoxious AV123 fanboy behavior turned me off from that product line years ago and I have been having those same feelings about AVA, Salk, and Bryston. It's a pity too cuz that's not what AC community should be all about but if that's the type of fanbase these bussinesses want to promote and allow to florish on their websites, then they can sow their own oats in the consumer market. An overzeolous fanbase can do as much damage in the public eye as it can good.

And that's all I'm going to say on that subject, I promise.

Cheers,
Robin

[topround]

Robin,
I wholeheartedly agree with you!
Yes it was my fault for stirring up trouble, but it needed to be done.
It proves..tow the line...or watch out!
So many people are sick of the fanboys, yet so little say anything, it is like a cancer, and it
has taken root at AC.
But no worries , my friend , all is well..I made my point, and I move on.

Thanks
Mike

[shep]

I remember when comments and flame wars were even more personal and childish over there, which is when some of us migrated. It hadn't gotten to the point where manufacturer's had taken such control; That was bound to happen though. It's really not a compatible situation and very hard to manage. Whether you criticize a product in their circle or elsewhere, as long as they are held in such high esteem or adulated slavishly, you will bring wrath down on your head. People need to herd together by nature and having spent a lot of money on products, need to be reassured that they have done the right thing. It takes a certain kind of maturity, both as a person and as an audiophile to keep on questing and questioning and debating. Nothing is set in stone. It's the journey that's interesting, not the goal. The goal is illusive and fleeting anyway. Likewise a Salk or a Bryston should be man enough to accept valid criticism and intigrate that into their design goals. This is in no way pointed at Mike specifically, since I gave up following the Bryston story early on as being totally boring, but a little tact sometimes works charms, whereas a pointed remark can simply have the opposite effect. I might be hurt or unhappy if someone (dared!) to say my system was really rubbish, but I hope I would be grown up enough to swallow my pride and ask "why" and how I could improve it. Fortunately the chances of that happening around here are zero so I can remain in naive ignorance   Nuff said. Long live AN!
PS As a card carrying ex-New Yorker I thrust myself there where angels fear to tread.

[BobM]

I agree, it's best to just stay away from the manufacturer circles unless you have one of their products and want to discuss it. You can easily ignore them by just using the "Favorites" tab to filter them out, instead of seeing everything on the "Default" tab.

Oh, and by the way. Thumanns sucks. Long live Boars Head. How do you feel now fanboy?

[Deton Nation]

I remember when comments and flame wars were even more personal and childish over there, which is when some of us migrated. It hadn't gotten to the point where manufacturer's had taken such control; That was bound to happen though. It's really not a compatible situation and very hard to manage. Whether you criticize a product in their circle or elsewhere, as long as they are held in such high esteem or adulated slavishly, you will bring wrath down on your head. People need to herd together by nature and having spent a lot of money on products, need to be reassured that they have done the right thing. It takes a certain kind of maturity, both as a person and as an audiophile to keep on questing and questioning and debating. Nothing is set in stone. It's the journey that's interesting, not the goal. The goal is illusive and fleeting anyway. Likewise a Salk or a Bryston should be man enough to accept valid criticism and intigrate that into their design goals. This is in no way pointed at Mike specifically, since I gave up following the Bryston story early on as being totally boring, but a little tact sometimes works charms, whereas a pointed remark can simply have the opposite effect. I might be hurt or unhappy if someone (dared!) to say my system was really rubbish, but I hope I would be grown up enough to swallow my pride and ask "why" and how I could improve it. Fortunately the chances of that happening around here are zero so I can remain in naive ignorance   Nuff said. Long live AN!
PS As a card carrying ex-New Yorker I thrust myself there where angels fear to tread.

Well said.
Mike

[Deton Nation]

Oh and meat sucks... Broccoli rules!

[rollo]

I did not read the posts but read the MF review. I concur wholeheartedly with Fremers assessment. I owned Bryston, to me always was bright or thin sounding and kinda Hi fi. A different opinion that's all.
   It appears to me if anyone offers a negative or different opinion about a product or pricing of such the nonsense starts. Powercords anyone ?
   A Man' who acts like that, to me is one I would avoid. Take it on the chin and be better for it. Defaming, insulting remarks only make them look worse.
    Personally IMO most of today's gear is bright and thin sounding. The gestalt, weight and tonality is MIA. yeah we have crisp highs , detail to the yin yang, forward sounding in your face tweeters and so on.
   Lesson to be learned as Jack Nicholson said " You can't handle the truth"  Looks like Bryston and the fanboys just will not accept the truth. Maybe Pelosi or Reid is a partner.

Merry Christmas

charles
   

[tmazz]

Personally IMO most of today's gear is bright and thin sounding.

This scares me, you're starting to sound like Roy.....

[BobM]

Au Contraire. I think Roy would say that all equipment since 1967 sounds bright and thin sounding. In fact, all horns sound bright (well, maybe not a tuba or baritone sax). 

[Emil]

Hey Topround
Does Fremmer know the stir he caused over at AC? Must of given him a good laugh.

[Emil]

Topround

I think your bravery to take the bullet puts you up there in the running for this years highly coveted Satfrat Award

Look how proud Satfrat looks in his avatar

[topround]

Emil,

Yes Mikey knows and finds it unbeleiveable.

I think, given his position, any negative reviews are taken seriously, especially by such a "revered" brand as Bryston.

I think his review gives Stereophile "street cred".

It had to be done, and it was refreshing.

And I do not deserve the "Satfrat" that is too high an honor for me
I only want an award that comes with a Pointy hat , and the 1.4 million from Norway!!

Mike

[Emil]

"I think his review gives Stereophile "street cred"

Did you guys read the follow-up on the Totems? Another lukewarm review. Really pissed them off at Totem

Hey, we always complain when all the reviews are positive.

Look for a thinner Stereophile next month. Who would want to have their gear reviewed considering the mood the Stereophile writers are in

[Lizard_king]

Mikey,

How goes? Glad to see you are at least able to be reached here.

[satfrat]

Topround

I think your bravery to take the bullet puts you up there in the running for this years highly coveted Satfrat Award

Look how proud Satfrat looks in his avatar

What can I say Emil, it's the best look I could come up with as I didn't have a 6-pack inside me like the rest of you guys.  But I will have you know that even thou I did happen to crack the trophy's CD-R on the way back to my hills in Vermont, I do have the Satfrat Award (not so) proudly on display in my living room in front of 1 of my main Lorelei's,,, used as sort of a diffusion device. 

Topround, go eat a friggen Thumann's hotdog you pustz and get yurself happy.

Happy Holidays,
Robin