AudioNervosa

Systemic Development => Amplification and Preamplification => Topic started by: jimbones on February 07, 2021, 12:20:28 PM

Title: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on February 07, 2021, 12:20:28 PM
Considering a move to Class D as my back can't lift to heavy an amp anymore. I'm afraid that they still can not compete with a good Class AB. Your thoughts?
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on February 07, 2021, 01:46:07 PM
I’m certainly sympathetic to your situation :( The upgraded Mivera clone I have is pretty good and they go used for $650 - over $800. But, for me it’s lacking midrange warmth so I’m moving on. The DAC amps and Leo’s Orchard Audio Starkrimson  monos have received favorable comments. Charles raves about the Arion HS Monos, which are Class D and utilize a 6H30. It’s one of 3 amps I’m considering. The retail for those  is over $6k and that’s why I’m looking for a used pair....
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Folsom on February 07, 2021, 03:08:37 PM
TPA3116 is pretty nice but isn't dynamic on all speakers.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: HAL on February 07, 2021, 03:50:53 PM
The Orchard Audio original BOSC amps. 

The new Starkrimson version has the high input impedance where the originals are low input impedance.  I drive them with a balanced connection so the low works well for my setup.

Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: mdconnelly on February 08, 2021, 10:28:44 AM
I echo the Orchard Audio recommendations.    I also was able to listen to the Arion HS monos - albeit maybe 5-6 years ago - and they were amazing and definitely lived up to Charles' raves.   Check arionaudio.com (http://arionaudio.com)

Charles, I now see the Mike K (Arion) has a line of speakers.   May have to take a listen at some point.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on February 08, 2021, 02:31:16 PM
Thanks for the idea's I will research them. I should have stated my budget at roughly 3500-4k (used is OK)
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: rodge827 on February 09, 2021, 04:44:18 PM
The Digital Amplifier Company 2 Cherry is exceptional. I have owned a few of the DAC amps and the 2 Cherry is in a class of its own. Very quiet, detailed, exceptional bass and very smooth sounding. Tommy really out did himself with this amp. I sold it since I found a great deal on 300b monos I’ve wanted for a long time. Wish I didn’t need to sell the 2 Cherry it gave the 300b monos a serious run.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Barry (NJ) on February 10, 2021, 12:02:07 PM
What do you, listen for in, want out of, your system?
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: rollo on February 13, 2021, 08:07:45 AM
  The Arion HS 500 hybrid. 500W into 8 Ohm 1000W into 4 Ohm. Uses a 6H30 input tube. Military grade power supply used in submarines so it is VERY quiet. I used the m for the Pipedreams if you remember. Not dry, thin , bright or hard sounding.

charles
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on February 13, 2021, 02:20:13 PM
What do you, listen for in, want out of, your system?

Listen to Jazz and Rock, not much classical. I like a full weighty midrange. Not a dry thin sound. My current amp is awesome but someday I will replace it. Not urgent but I like to understand the Class D technology and what it has to offer. BTW, I don't need stupid power, I am using a 130 watt amp now (Wells Innamorata). I was also wondering if Class D watts are the same as Class AB watts. No Joke, I have some experience with class D amps that claim 500wpc and I have to crank the volume to get anything out of it.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: toobluvr on February 13, 2021, 04:29:26 PM
What do you, listen for in, want out of, your system?

...... No Joke, I have some experience with class D amps that claim 500wpc and I have to crank the volume to get anything out of it.

That's not necessarily a power shortfall.

It most likely means the amp is hard to drive (ie: it has a very high input sensitivity).  For example, the amp may be able to deliver 1000wpc when driven to full output, but if it takes say 4 volts input to get it to full output, you will never be able to use all its potential horsepower.  Since most sources only output 2 volts max, the amp will "feel" like it lacks power because only a fraction of its rated power is being produced.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on February 14, 2021, 03:40:51 PM
What do you, listen for in, want out of, your system?

...... No Joke, I have some experience with class D amps that claim 500wpc and I have to crank the volume to get anything out of it.

That's not necessarily a power shortfall.

I understand but it seems that was the case with multiple amps I tried  in the past.


It most likely means the amp is hard to drive (ie: it has a very high input sensitivity).  For example, the amp may be able to deliver 1000wpc when driven to full output, but if it takes say 4 volts input to get it to full output, you will never be able to use all its potential horsepower.  Since most sources only output 2 volts max, the amp will "feel" like it lacks power because only a fraction of its rated power is being produced.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Mark Muse on August 08, 2022, 07:02:06 AM
I'm currently using a LSA GaN 350 (Bricasti M3 > ARC Ref 6 SE > LSA > Fyne F1-8). I'm quite happy with it. Nothing thin or dry about it. Smooth, detailed, slightly warm. And the price is right. Previous amp was a pair of Bel Canto REF600M mono blocks. These were pretty good, but a little dark, not as smooth, and less dimensional.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on August 08, 2022, 07:22:47 AM
Hi Mark,

I see it’s your first post. Welcome to AN.

Nick
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: rollo on August 11, 2022, 12:17:30 PM
Jim you need to hear the LSA Warp-1. $1200 retail. I am not a dealer. I have one come over one day. A little killer.


charles
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: rollo on September 22, 2022, 11:53:46 AM
  I cannot find fault with the Living Sound Audio Warp-1 . Read the latest review in the Absolute Sound by Steven Stone.

charles
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Response Audio on September 23, 2022, 07:32:52 AM
Class D can sound very good when using the proper input stage on them.  Many of the older versions had a very low input impedance and high sensitivity. Simply connecting a preamp to a Class D amp does not always provide the results we want. I have been listening to many versions including those with solid state input buffers that are used only for impedance matching but still don’t provide what I am looking for in Class D.
I have been working with these for some time and finally came up with an input stage that brings out the potential of Class D while providing the sonics we look for in amplification. The key is to design a front end that is optimized for the amp being used. For me, it’s done with tubes which is what we have been working on the past couple years. Now we’re ready.
I am still a tube guy and 90% of what we do is tubes but there is something about hybrid amplification that that I can’t stay away from. 
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on September 26, 2022, 07:23:56 PM
I'm currently using a LSA GaN 350 (Bricasti M3 > ARC Ref 6 SE > LSA > Fyne F1-8). I'm quite happy with it. Nothing thin or dry about it. Smooth, detailed, slightly warm. And the price is right. Previous amp was a pair of Bel Canto REF600M mono blocks. These were pretty good, but a little dark, not as smooth, and less dimensional.

Mark, Belated Welcome. So this is interesting. You like the LSA better than the Bel Canto? The BC were on my list but I could not find that many owners. If you could expand on this I would appreciate it. Thanks
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: shadowlight on September 27, 2022, 12:55:55 AM
Jim,

Depending on your budget some other GaN based amps to look up are AGD Audio, Merrill Audio, Orchid Audio and Peachtree Audio.  Outside of the usual suspects from Hypex nCore, Purifi and Ice based amps.  I would have added Digital Audio Company (DAC) but I do not know where the company stands since Tommy’s passing.

Personally, i have stopped looking at standalone amps and going down the integrated route going forward.  Right now, i go back and forth between the Vinnie Rossi LIO with 30 watt amp section and Ming Da 300b 8w setup.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: rollo on November 17, 2022, 12:36:33 PM
 The LSA GAN Amp did not get the same praise in the reviews as the Warp-1. Being revised. Yes agree a tubed preamp is a necessity with class "D". Saying that my all time favorite is the Arion hybrid mono blocks. Using a 6H30 input tube. 5x more money.

charles
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: P.I. on November 17, 2022, 12:40:28 PM
The LSA GAN Amp did not get the same praise in the reviews as the Warp-1. Being revised. Yes agree a tubed preamp is a necessity with class "D". Saying that my all time favorite is the Arion hybrid mono blocks. Using a 6H30 input tube. 5x more money.

charles
The Reflektor 6H30 ytube is a monster!  Best preamp tube I ever had in my Cary pre, for sure.  Gary Dodd's preamp with the 6H30 is great, too.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: ejk on November 17, 2022, 01:27:06 PM
So far I'm happy with my Rogue Sphinx V3 integrated. It has a tube front end. No that's a lie, The Orchard was better and changed my mind. But first NAD Purifi amp is in the house for a test run. Then decisions.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: rollo on November 18, 2022, 11:43:50 AM
The LSA GAN Amp did not get the same praise in the reviews as the Warp-1. Being revised. Yes agree a tubed preamp is a necessity with class "D". Saying that my all time favorite is the Arion hybrid mono blocks. Using a 6H30 input tube. 5x more money.

charles
The Reflektor 6H30 ytube is a monster!  Best preamp tube I ever had in my Cary pre, for sure.  Gary Dodd's preamp with the 6H30 is great, too.
[/q
 Yes Sir.
Using NOS Reflectors

charles
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on November 19, 2022, 12:49:19 PM
So I do have a tube preamp that will be feeding this new amp. I did demo the NAD M33 (using just the power amp portion line in) It was very good indeed. It uses the Purifi Modules. I am waiting to get hear some impressions on the Peachtree GAN400. It is surprising how little is written about it.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: ejk on November 19, 2022, 01:27:27 PM
So I do have a tube preamp that will be feeding this new amp. I did demo the NAD M33 (using just the power amp portion line in) It was very good indeed. It uses the Purifi Modules. I am waiting to get hear some impressions on the Peachtree GAN400. It is surprising how little is written about it.

I replied to your PM. As far as the Gan400 I think most people are going towards the Gan1
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: ejk on November 19, 2022, 02:12:07 PM
So I do have a tube preamp that will be feeding this new amp. I did demo the NAD M33 (using just the power amp portion line in) It was very good indeed. It uses the Purifi Modules. I am waiting to get hear some impressions on the Peachtree GAN400. It is surprising how little is written about it.

Did you use the Dirac live? and if so, how is it
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on November 19, 2022, 05:11:56 PM
No I used my RP7 line in to the NAD. Was very impressed with the few days I had it. It is lively but not sterile or harsh. Micro detail galore
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: ejk on November 20, 2022, 03:37:40 AM
No I used my RP7 line in to the NAD. Was very impressed with the few days I had it. It is lively but not sterile or harsh. Micro detail galore

Wait till you demo the Orchard
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on November 21, 2022, 01:27:47 PM
Yea I'm pretty far down the list lol
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on November 23, 2022, 06:23:46 PM
Jim you need to hear the LSA Warp-1. $1200 retail. I am not a dealer. I have one come over one day. A little killer.


charles

Yes after Thanksgiving, lets coordinate
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on November 30, 2022, 05:26:06 PM
Jim you need to hear the LSA Warp-1. $1200 retail. I am not a dealer. I have one come over one day. A little killer.


charles

Will do please PM me.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on December 01, 2022, 01:10:03 AM
Jim,

If you listen to the Warp 1, pls post your impressions
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: rollo on December 01, 2022, 10:19:53 AM
  The Warp-1 one adds nothing to the sound.  What I mean by that is that no part of the frequency range stood out or changed. Just a clean,fast, quiet dynamic presentation. Speaker cables make a difference as one can now easily hear what they add or subtract.
  As always only one way to tell. Try one.

charles


Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: P.I. on December 01, 2022, 10:06:22 PM
Steven Stone agrees!

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/lsa-warp-1-power-amplifier/
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: ejk on December 02, 2022, 12:18:05 PM
Sorry I am GaN FeT all the way. Leo is almost done with mine. Yeehaw!
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Barry (NJ) on December 02, 2022, 02:41:23 PM
Sorry I am GaN FeT all the way. Leo is almost done with mine. Yeehaw!

Nice, I want to hear!
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: GDHAL on December 02, 2022, 04:01:09 PM
The best class D amps I've ever heard are those in the bottom of my Triton Reference speakers. From what I've heard and read, class D is relegated to base, not mids, not treble. Sorry guys, the class D in my Triton Reference in my speakers are also combined with a DSP processor and it sounds beyond bass belief of anything else I've heard. If your class D amp is doing it for you, well then stay with it.

If you're into full range class D, from what I read,  atmasphere class D are the best.

Be real. Consider the technology and electrical theory. Class A rules from a Sonic perspective. Granted there are other perspectives and advantages that class D brings to the table.

Best.

Hal
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: ejk on December 03, 2022, 02:50:11 AM
Sorry I am GaN FeT all the way. Leo is almost done with mine. Yeehaw!

Nice, I want to hear!

I heard you do not like crowds :rofl:

Anytime :thumb:
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: shadowlight on December 03, 2022, 12:59:54 PM
Sorry I am GaN FeT all the way. Leo is almost done with mine. Yeehaw!

Congratulation Evan  :thumb:
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: ejk on December 03, 2022, 02:59:26 PM
Sorry I am GaN FeT all the way. Leo is almost done with mine. Yeehaw!

Congratulation Evan  :thumb:

  It will be here Monday according to the tracking
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: HAL on December 03, 2022, 03:11:16 PM
Sorry I am GaN FeT all the way. Leo is almost done with mine. Yeehaw!

Congratulation Evan  :thumb:

  It will be here Monday according to the tracking

Hope they sound as good in your system as mine do! :)
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: ejk on December 03, 2022, 04:14:13 PM
Sorry I am GaN FeT all the way. Leo is almost done with mine. Yeehaw!

Congratulation Evan  :thumb:

  It will be here Monday according to the tracking

Hope they sound as good in your system as mine do! :)

 I had the Starkrimson here last month from his tour.  That is what I ordered
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: ejk on December 05, 2022, 02:41:33 PM
GaN FeT Forever :thumb: and not for nothing but The Rogue Class D is awesome also
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on December 05, 2022, 07:15:03 PM
GaN FeT Forever :thumb: and not for nothing but The Rogue Class D is awesome also


Congrats! Leo got that that to you very quickly  :thumb:

Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Barry (NJ) on December 09, 2022, 07:59:05 AM
GaN FeT Forever :thumb: and not for nothing but The Rogue Class D is awesome also

Nice!  :thumb:
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on January 14, 2023, 12:36:11 PM
Well I have the Starkrimson on Loan (Tour) and I can tell you it is an awesome amp. I compared it to the Peachtree Gan400, Benchmark AHB2, NAD M33, and it came out on top. It excels in clarity, depth, separation between instruments, weightiness, and sense of space. It is truly an exceptional amp. I will be placing an order for one.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: ejk on January 14, 2023, 12:55:20 PM
See I told all you nay sayers
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on March 07, 2023, 10:32:32 PM
I received the Starkrimson Ultra yesterday via the Steve Hoffman tour. It’s been on a little over 24 hours. It is one fine amp. Evan was right and confirmed by Jimbones. The 2 things that struck me immediately were the extra detail and weightiness as Jim says. My AVA SET 120 does well, but the Ultra is 250w a channel vs 60w for the SET 120.

I have a Hapa Aero RCA silver digital coax coming Thursday for evaluation. Jason polishes each one by hand, just like Dave polishes the receptacles on the UBERBUSS units. I expect great things from the Aero. The evaluation is being done using my Fritz Carrera speakers.

The best Class D amp I’ve heard were the Merrill Element 118 Monos.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: orchardaudio on March 17, 2023, 11:46:08 AM
I had the Starkrimson here last month from his tour.  That is what I ordered

Well I have the Starkrimson on Loan (Tour) and I can tell you it is an awesome amp. I compared it to the Peachtree Gan400, Benchmark AHB2, NAD M33, and it came out on top. It excels in clarity, depth, separation between instruments, weightiness, and sense of space. It is truly an exceptional amp. I will be placing an order for one.

I received the Starkrimson Ultra yesterday via the Steve Hoffman tour. It’s been on a little over 24 hours. It is one fine amp. Evan was right and confirmed by Jimbones. The 2 things that struck me immediately were the extra detail and weightiness as Jim says. My AVA SET 120 does well, but the Ultra is 250w a channel vs 60w for the SET 120.

I have a Hapa Aero RCA silver digital coax coming Thursday for evaluation. Jason polishes each one by hand, just like Dave polishes the receptacles on the UBERBUSS units. I expect great things from the Aero. The evaluation is being done using my Fritz Carrera speakers.

The best Class D amp I’ve heard were the Merrill Element 118 Monos.


Thanks for all the positive feedback.

For anybody else looking to join the tour see here:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/orchard-audio-starkrimson-stereo-ultra-amp-tour.1148415/page-18#post-31672277
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on March 17, 2023, 05:49:27 PM
I received the Starkrimson Ultra yesterday via the Steve Hoffman tour. It’s been on a little over 24 hours. It is one fine amp. Evan was right and confirmed by Jimbones. The 2 things that struck me immediately were the extra detail and weightiness as Jim says. My AVA SET 120 does well, but the Ultra is 250w a channel vs 60w for the SET 120.

I have a Hapa Aero RCA silver digital coax coming Thursday for evaluation. Jason polishes each one by hand, just like Dave polishes the receptacles on the UBERBUSS units. I expect great things from the Aero. The evaluation is being done using my Fritz Carrera speakers.

The best Class D amp I’ve heard were the Merrill Element 118 Monos.

I enjoyed the Starkrimson Ultra so much that I bought the tour amp.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: P.I. on March 17, 2023, 10:40:24 PM
 
I received the Starkrimson Ultra yesterday via the Steve Hoffman tour. It’s been on a little over 24 hours. It is one fine amp. Evan was right and confirmed by Jimbones. The 2 things that struck me immediately were the extra detail and weightiness as Jim says. My AVA SET 120 does well, but the Ultra is 250w a channel vs 60w for the SET 120.

I have a Hapa Aero RCA silver digital coax coming Thursday for evaluation. Jason polishes each one by hand, just like Dave polishes the receptacles on the UBERBUSS units. I expect great things from the Aero. The evaluation is being done using my Fritz Carrera speakers.

The best Class D amp I’ve heard were the Merrill Element 118 Monos.

I enjoyed the Starkrimson Ultra so much that I bought the tour amp.

 :thumb:  God on you and good on Leo!

I love it when us "little guys" punch above our weight class. We tend to serve the music, not profits!
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on March 18, 2023, 10:35:03 AM
I received the Starkrimson Ultra yesterday via the Steve Hoffman tour. It’s been on a little over 24 hours. It is one fine amp. Evan was right and confirmed by Jimbones. The 2 things that struck me immediately were the extra detail and weightiness as Jim says. My AVA SET 120 does well, but the Ultra is 250w a channel vs 60w for the SET 120.

I have a Hapa Aero RCA silver digital coax coming Thursday for evaluation. Jason polishes each one by hand, just like Dave polishes the receptacles on the UBERBUSS units. I expect great things from the Aero. The evaluation is being done using my Fritz Carrera speakers.

The best Class D amp I’ve heard were the Merrill Element 118 Monos.

I enjoyed the Starkrimson Ultra so much that I bought the tour amp.

 :thumb:  God on you and good on Leo!

I love it when us "little guys" punch above our weight class. We tend to serve the music, not profits!

You know how much I like my AVA SET 120, so Leo’s amp is special that I’d want to part with the SET 120. I’m happy for the smaller manufacturers. It’s a win win as I can get a very good product for a good price. And if there are issues, I’d rather deal with an individual or smaller companies.

I need to do a review on Leo’s amp at the Steve Hoffman forum. But I’ll just say one prominent feature on the Ultra is the ability to retrieve additional detail.

Nick
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: orchardaudio on April 01, 2023, 06:04:32 AM
Nick's review from SMAF:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/orchard-audio-starkrimson-stereo-ultra-amp-tour.1148415/page-21#post-31774018

Thank you very much Nick for you time and effort.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on April 01, 2023, 11:53:05 AM
Nick's review from SMAF:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/orchard-audio-starkrimson-stereo-ultra-amp-tour.1148415/page-21#post-31774018

Thank you very much Nick for you time and effort.

Leo, it was my pleasure to review and buy this wonderful amp. I will likely upgrade it as I found an excellent repair shop in Las Vegas an hour away.

To summarize the amp’s capabilities:

1) tremendous clarity
2) increased resolution
3) balance across the musical spectrum
4) best reproduction of piano and brass instruments ever in my system
5) beautiful reproduction of female voices without harshness or sibilance
6) beautiful reproduction of male vocals with a very rich character
7) wonderful additional timbre to vocals and instruments
8)ability to dig deep into the soundstage and hear voices and chorus and identify individual voices with the chorus
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: mresseguie on April 03, 2023, 06:12:30 PM
Nick/Leo,

I'm viewing the Orchard Audio website now, and I see there are three levels of the Starkrimson Ultra - standard/base, Add 37,600uF, and dual mono w28,200uF per channel. Which version is the tour amp? [Forgive me if this has already been stated, but I just don't have time to surf through four pages of posts right now.]

Michael
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: orchardaudio on April 03, 2023, 06:14:56 PM
Nick/Leo,

I'm viewing the Orchard Audio website now, and I see there are three levels of the Starkrimson Ultra - standard/base, Add 37,600uF, and dual mono w28,200uF per channel. Which version is the tour amp? [Forgive me if this has already been stated, but I just don't have time to surf through four pages of posts right now.]

Michael

The amp that Nick evaluated is the middle configuration, base with capacitor (Add 37,600uF) upgrade ($2900 MSRP).

This post on SHMF summarizes the whole tour and links to all the reviews:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/orchard-audio-starkrimson-stereo-ultra-amp-tour.1148415/page-21#post-31788480
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on April 03, 2023, 06:19:52 PM
Nick/Leo,

I'm viewing the Orchard Audio website now, and I see there are three levels of the Starkrimson Ultra - standard/base, Add 37,600uF, and dual mono w28,200uF per channel. Which version is the tour amp? [Forgive me if this has already been stated, but I just don't have time to surf through four pages of posts right now.]

Michael

The amp that Nick evaluated is the middle configuration, base with capacitor (Add 37,600uF) upgrade ($2900 MSRP).

This post here on SHMF summararize the whole tour and links to all the reviews:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/orchard-audio-starkrimson-stereo-ultra-amp-tour.1148415/page-21#post-31788480

Thank you Michael for the question and Leo for answering. I wasn’t aware of that :)
Nick
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: mresseguie on April 05, 2023, 12:34:22 AM
Nick/Leo,

I'm viewing the Orchard Audio website now, and I see there are three levels of the Starkrimson Ultra - standard/base, Add 37,600uF, and dual mono w28,200uF per channel. Which version is the tour amp? [Forgive me if this has already been stated, but I just don't have time to surf through four pages of posts right now.]

Michael



The amp that Nick evaluated is the middle configuration, base with capacitor (Add 37,600uF) upgrade ($2900 MSRP).

This post on SHMF summarizes the whole tour and links to all the reviews:
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/orchard-audio-starkrimson-stereo-ultra-amp-tour.1148415/page-21#post-31788480

Thank you, Leo.

Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on April 28, 2023, 12:57:41 PM
Many of the Class D amps are really good now. I ended up with a NAD M23. Found one at a fair price in perfect condition.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: S Clark on April 28, 2023, 02:42:00 PM
It's been several years since I've heard a class D amp.  The one I remember was supposedly a 150WPC integrated but wasn't any more powerful than a 15 wpc 6BQ5 amp Gary Dodd built for me. 
I assume all of those type issues are in the past??
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: HAL on April 29, 2023, 01:44:52 AM
Scott,
The Class D amps have come a long way in the last few years.

The Gallium Nitride (GaN) FET output devices now in use make the amp circuit much simpler and sound better.  The higher efficiency of the devices make the overall amps much smaller.  The higher switching speed of the devices make the output filter much smaller with better filter components.  Also most do not need heatsinks as the devices can run at 200C. 

My friends test is to use an AM radio by the speaker cables to see what noise is being generated.  The new amps are much better from that aspect as well.  Distortion and RFI is very low. 

The prices of these amps like the Orchard Audio Starkrimson amps have also dropped from the early days where the one mfg wanted $33K for their GaN FET amps.  The 150watt GaN monoblocks with GaN based power supplies are under $2K. 

I have three pair of monoblocks driving my AGN Line array prototype speakers.  I use one pair for the Magnetar II speakers.  They sound wonderful to me.  I will have a pair of Starkrimson monoblocks running the Magnetar II speakers in my room at LSAF.  You can hear them for yourself.  And everything is running from a DSP processor including a balanced input phono stage in the dspNexus 2x8.  If things work out, will also have a special surprise in that system.  :)
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: S Clark on April 29, 2023, 05:51:50 AM
Thanks for the info, Rich.  So is the GaN FET the key upgrade for Class D?  Is this why they have made such gains in the past few years?
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on April 29, 2023, 09:45:33 AM
Scott,
The Class D amps have come a long way in the last few years.

The Gallium Nitride (GaN) FET output devices now in use make the amp circuit much simpler and sound better.  The higher efficiency of the devices make the overall amps much smaller.  The higher switching speed of the devices make the output filter much smaller with better filter components.  Also most do not need heatsinks as the devices can run at 200C. 

My friends test is to use an AM radio by the speaker cables to see what noise is being generated.  The new amps are much better from that aspect as well.  Distortion and RFI is very low. 

The prices of these amps like the Orchard Audio Starkrimson amps have also dropped from the early days where the one mfg wanted $33K for their GaN FET amps.  The 150watt GaN monoblocks with GaN based power supplies are under $2K. 

I have three pair of monoblocks driving my AGN Line array prototype speakers.  I use one pair for the Magnetar II speakers.  They sound wonderful to me.  I will have a pair of Starkrimson monoblocks running the Magnetar II speakers in my room at LSAF.  You can hear them for yourself.  And everything is running from a DSP processor including a balanced input phono stage in the dspNexus 2x8.  If things work out, will also have a special surprise in that system.  :)

Thanks for the very useful info, Rich. I’m certainly enjoying my Starkrimson Ultra. More power, better resolution and clarity than my AVA SET 120 which I really enjoyed.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: jimbones on April 29, 2023, 01:00:08 PM
Thanks for the info, Rich.  So is the GaN FET the key upgrade for Class D?  Is this why they have made such gains in the past few years?

No, its just one type of device used in Class D Amps. The NAD doesn't use GAN but sounds very good. I really like the AGD but they are very expensive. I am seeing a trend of big heavy hi power amps being traded in for smaller lighter cooler running class D. IMHO it is the future.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Response Audio on April 29, 2023, 01:24:23 PM
We have become very  interested in GaN FET designs. My partner has a set of mono blocks drive a pair of Pure Audio Project Quintet15 speakers with Horn 1. Is the base design around our new 300 watt  Hybrid GaN amps coming out this summer. The horns sounds amazing as compared to other Class D amps we have played with in the past. I’ll be using a pair of PAP Trio15 Classics and Raven Audio Corvus speakers for the voicing of the new design.
I’m am still a tube guy which is why we will be using our tube products in the R&D stage. I too think GaN FET will be a new standard in Class D.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: HAL on April 29, 2023, 04:34:30 PM
Thanks for the info, Rich.  So is the GaN FET the key upgrade for Class D?  Is this why they have made such gains in the past few years?
Scott,
In my opinion the GaN FET have lead to much improvement in Class D amplifier design.  Most Power MOSFET designs need extra signal processing to overcome the parasitic effects of the device to make it switch faster to make the output filter easier to design with better parts, since the higher in switching speed you can go, the smaller the L and C component values need to be.

The GaN FET parasitic effects are so low the design is simplified since they are not the same problem any longer.  They switch at much higher frequencies to start with.  Orchard shares the graphs of the response of the Starkrimson monoblocks I have.  The switching frequency is around 750KHz.  The best Power MOSFET versions I have seen that are stable is in the 300KHz range. 

I had some beta test Class D amps once with Power MOSFETs and the switching frequency was supposed to be 1MHz.  Put a fairly complex speaker crossover load and it blew up, boiled the ferrofluid in the tweeters and went back.  Never heard about the amps again and what happened.  Not tried that with the GaN FET's since the speakers are no longer available.

I have my Starkrimson amps with a 2ft speaker cable directly tied to the planar driver from 190Hz to 20KHz.  Very simple load and sounds really good.  Tried them with the Super Minis/Monoliths and the same sound quality.  All simple loads since they are resistive, but very open and dynamic sounding. I wish my old pair of Pass Labs Aleph 2 Class A monoblocks were still in good shape, but the PS caps need replacing from age and heat.  Not sure they would sound better.

Ok, enough with the EE speak.  Time to listen to some music! :)
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on April 29, 2023, 05:38:54 PM
Thanks for the info, Rich.  So is the GaN FET the key upgrade for Class D?  Is this why they have made such gains in the past few years?
Scott,
In my opinion the GaN FET have lead to much improvement in Class D amplifier design.  Most Power MOSFET designs need extra signal processing to overcome the parasitic effects of the device to make it switch faster to make the output filter easier to design with better parts, since the higher in switching speed you can go, the smaller the L and C component values need to be.

The GaN FET parasitic effects are so low the design is simplified since they are not the same problem any longer.  They switch at much higher frequencies to start with.  Orchard shares the graphs of the response of the Starkrimson monoblocks I have.  The switching frequency is around 750KHz.  The best Power MOSFET versions I have seen that are stable is in the 300KHz range. 

I had some beta test Class D amps once with Power MOSFETs and the switching frequency was supposed to be 1MHz.  Put a fairly complex speaker crossover load and it blew up, boiled the ferrofluid in the tweeters and went back.  Never heard about the amps again and what happened.  Not tried that with the GaN FET's since the speakers are no longer available.

I have my Starkrimson amps with a 2ft speaker cable directly tied to the planar driver from 190Hz to 20KHz.  Very simple load and sounds really good.  Tried them with the Super Minis/Monoliths and the same sound quality.  All simple loads since they are resistive, but very open and dynamic sounding. I wish my old pair of Pass Labs Aleph 2 Class A monoblocks were still in good shape, but the PS caps need replacing from age and heat.  Not sure they would sound better.

Ok, enough with the EE speak.  Time to listen to some music! :)

Rich,

Just curious about those beta Class D amps. Were you doing the design or was it a manufacturer? If so, did they keep working on Class D and get them to be speaker friendly?

Nick
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: HAL on April 29, 2023, 06:31:32 PM
Nick,
They were from a mfg as beta test units and they made newer designs that are out for sale.  Never went back to try again. 

The Strarkrimson monoblocks are far better sounding than those other beta units. 

I did get the new GaN 300W power supplies to go with the Starkrimson pair of monoblocks.   Trying those now with the dspNexus 2x8 when the EA unit arrives on Monday!  Has the new ADC board with phono gain for trials.  Now to see if my Oracle Delphi MKI needs a new belt.  I know the Linn Sondek LP12 a friend gave me does and found a replacement.  Will try bringing one to LSAF if I have room in the van.
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: P.I. on April 29, 2023, 06:47:01 PM
Nick,
They were from a mfg as beta test units and they made newer designs that are out for sale.  Never went back to try again. 

The Strarkrimson monoblocks are far better sounding than those other beta units. 

I did get the new GaN 300W power supplies to go with the Starkrimson pair of monoblocks.   Trying those now with the dspNexus 2x8 when the EA unit arrives on Monday!  Has the new ADC board with phono gain for trials.  Now to see if my Oracle Delphi MKI needs a new belt.  I know the Linn Sondek LP12 a friend gave me does and found a replacement.  Will try bringing one to LSAF if I have room in the van.
I'm looking forward to see you and your menagerie!  :thumb:
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: HAL on April 29, 2023, 07:05:51 PM
Dave,
Me as well!

Just hope my paint guy can finish in time!  :o

Hopefully the back-up plan will be done tomorrow, so good either way for the speaker baffles.  It's always something!

Rich
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: Nick B on April 29, 2023, 07:57:55 PM
Nick,
They were from a mfg as beta test units and they made newer designs that are out for sale.  Never went back to try again. 

The Strarkrimson monoblocks are far better sounding than those other beta units. 

I did get the new GaN 300W power supplies to go with the Starkrimson pair of monoblocks.   Trying those now with the dspNexus 2x8 when the EA unit arrives on Monday!  Has the new ADC board with phono gain for trials.  Now to see if my Oracle Delphi MKI needs a new belt.  I know the Linn Sondek LP12 a friend gave me does and found a replacement.  Will try bringing one to LSAF if I have room in the van.

Rich,
Those are external power supplies or do they fit inside those small mono chassis?
Those are nice tables. I had a Linn and always liked the looks of the Oracle. I think Brooks Berdan modded the Oracles years ago. I went out to his store in so. California a few times 25-30 years ago.
Nick
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: P.I. on April 29, 2023, 08:53:35 PM
Dave,
Me as well!

Just hope my paint guy can finish in time!  :o

Hopefully the back-up plan will be done tomorrow, so good either way for the speaker baffles.  It's always something!

Rich

Painters.  The bane of prototype production....
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: HAL on April 30, 2023, 04:36:30 AM
Nick,
They were from a mfg as beta test units and they made newer designs that are out for sale.  Never went back to try again. 

The Strarkrimson monoblocks are far better sounding than those other beta units. 

I did get the new GaN 300W power supplies to go with the Starkrimson pair of monoblocks.   Trying those now with the dspNexus 2x8 when the EA unit arrives on Monday!  Has the new ADC board with phono gain for trials.  Now to see if my Oracle Delphi MKI needs a new belt.  I know the Linn Sondek LP12 a friend gave me does and found a replacement.  Will try bringing one to LSAF if I have room in the van.

Rich,
Those are external power supplies or do they fit inside those small mono chassis?
Those are nice tables. I had a Linn and always liked the looks of the Oracle. I think Brooks Berdan modded the Oracles years ago. I went out to his store in so. California a few times 25-30 years ago.
Nick
Nick,
For the monoblocks they are external PS with a connector.  An easy swap! :)

Got the MKV chassis upgrades for my Oracle Delphi MKI and it is much easier to setup.  Still using the original Papst DC motor and still working well after probably 40 years.  Probably time for some electrolytic cap replacements as they dry out with age.  Just needs a new belt and they are reasonable.  I have seen the Brooks Berdan upgrades, but Oracle has them as well now.  Sent in my sub chassis to have the counterweight and new bearing installed.  Along with the new shock towers I installed, made setup much much easier.  Fun Stuff!
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: HAL on April 30, 2023, 04:40:04 AM
Dave,
Me as well!

Just hope my paint guy can finish in time!  :o

Hopefully the back-up plan will be done tomorrow, so good either way for the speaker baffles.  It's always something!

Rich

Painters.  The bane of prototype production....
Dave,
Yes, I am lucky that I found him.  He does automotive paint for classic cars. Problem is he is booked, so fits me in.  His latest project was to repaint a car for a person that had just spent $6K on another paint job and he did not like it.  He was still sanding the same car down for 2 weeks to get it ready for the paint booth.  Speaking of that, he also can custom paint an 18 wheeler box in the paint room!  It is HUGE! :o
Title: Re: what is the best sounding Class D amp you've ever heard
Post by: P.I. on April 30, 2023, 12:47:27 PM
Dave,
Me as well!

Just hope my paint guy can finish in time!  :o

Hopefully the back-up plan will be done tomorrow, so good either way for the speaker baffles.  It's always something!

Rich

Painters.  The bane of prototype production....
Dave,
Yes, I am lucky that I found him.  He does automotive paint for classic cars. Problem is he is booked, so fits me in.  His latest project was to repaint a car for a person that had just spent $6K on another paint job and he did not like it.  He was still sanding the same car down for 2 weeks to get it ready for the paint booth.  Speaking of that, he also can custom paint an 18 wheeler box in the paint room!  It is HUGE! :o

I had a guy like that.  We went to high school together and he opened a body shop and specialized in building street rods.  Pat's paint jobs are legendary here.  He retired and sold the business... drat!