want recommendations for small 2 way speakers and powered sub

[Nick B]

hi nick,

not wanting to beat a dead horse, but for what you say your needs and wants are, i still say the best choice is the rythmik L12. 

doug s.

Hi Doug,
NP. The horse is alive and kicking. As you’re aware by my posts, I had no knowledge of subs before these threads began. I had heard of the term servo-controlled, but that’s about it. So I’m open to suggestions even though I’m a bit hesitant/stubborn at times. I will be speaking with Danny when I get home from vacation in a couple of days. As I don’t have space for any open baffle speakers, I’d be looking for a closed enclosure. As I recall, the L12 weight is 58 lbs and I’m assuming that’s the shipping weight, so my main concern is the non-shipping weight. My primary concern with the KEFs will be how extended and non-fatiguing the treble is. As you are using the same L50s, I have a pretty good idea how that will turn out.
I’m certainly enjoying the few days in so. California and the occasional rain we’ve had.
Nick

[djdube525]

FWIW... if you've been following Rich's (aka HAL) endeavors, he's using Danny's subs in a couple configurations. I suspect if you PM he'll give you his feedback.

If memory serves me correctly, he has two dual H-Frames (12" subs) and two towers with 6, 12" subs... if that gives you any indication which way he may lean. 

Edit: Check out HAL's Monolith thread: http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=6519.msg84659;topicseen#msg84659

[HAL]

After having Genesis 12M servo subs which has similar tech to the Rythmik sealed subs and the 2x12 OB H-Frame from GR/Rythmik, I like the H-frame better in my room.  I am not going back to boxes.

If you want small, the Rythmik sealed box is great choice.

[Nick B]

FWIW... if you've been following Rich's (aka HAL) endeavors, he's using Danny's subs in a couple configurations. I suspect if you PM he'll give you his feedback.

If memory serves me correctly, he has two dual H-Frames (12" subs) and two towers with 6, 12" subs... if that gives you any indication which way he may lean. 

Edit: Check out HAL's Monolith thread: http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=6519.msg84659;topicseen#msg84659

Yes, I’ve closely been following Rich’s endeavors and I don’t know how he has the energy to do it 😳

[Nick B]

   Nick enjoy ! SVS are quite good however I would recommend Rythmic instead. Servo controlled is the key word. Calif. lived in San Diego for a year. Beautiful place then [ 1970]. Now ruined by lunatic progressive BS.

charles

sorry, charlie, i couldn't help but respond to your off-topic comment.  personally, i think the entire country would be a lot better off if it were "ruined" by what you call "lunatic progressive bs".     and don't let johnr find out about this post - he will petition the site to have me banned because i responded to someone else's off-topic comments.   

ymmv,

doug s.

Now as Robert Blake used to say.... “and that’s the name of that tune”.
Doug, you have a safe haven here 👮

[Nick B]

Here’s a hypothetical question....
If I don’t want or need a 12” servo sub, can a 10” driver be substituted for the 12” assuming that the appropriate cabinet is big enough to handle the amp and control board? Would the electronics be able to control the smaller driver or are the driver,  amp and control board matched to each other? Please no comments on why I need a 12” or even a 15” driver.
Nick

[HAL]

They do not make a 10" servo driver or the correct servo amp to work with it.  They are a special design driver with both a servo coil and drive coil to be sensed and controlled by the servo amp.   

There was an 8" servo open baffle driver from GR-Research, but no more were made after the first run. 

[rollo]

   Nick enjoy ! SVS are quite good however I would recommend Rythmic instead. Servo controlled is the key word. Calif. lived in San Diego for a year. Beautiful place then [ 1970]. Now ruined by lunatic progressive BS.

charles

sorry, charlie, i couldn't help but respond to your off-topic comment.  personally, i think the entire country would be a lot better off if it were "ruined" by what you call "lunatic progressive bs".     and don't let johnr find out about this post - he will petition the site to have me banned because i responded to someone else's off-topic comments.   

ymmv,

doug s.

Now as Robert Blake used to say.... “and that’s the name of that tune”.
Doug, you have a safe haven here 👮

  Thanks Nick, just could not help myself. Doug another time and place for that conversation.


charles

[rollo]

Thanks for mentioning us guys.

Nick, if you go servo control then you'l never go back. Give me a call if you want to talk subs and I'll give you some real options to consider.

 Danny we  [ I] mention your products all the time thanks for taking notice. Good is good period.

charles

[Nick B]

They do not make a 10" servo driver or the correct servo amp to work with it.  They are a special design driver with both a servo coil and drive coil to be sensed and controlled by the servo amp.   

There was an 8" servo open baffle driver from GR-Research, but no more were made after the first run.

Thanks, Rich. An 8 or a 10” would have been great
Nick

[Nick B]

Well, the LS 50s have arrived. Look to be in good shape and they are smaller than I thought...which is good. I’ll likely get them going tonight. Also spoke with Danny today re servo subs and an AC member Jay does flat packs, so it may all work out.
There’s also an AC member Maty who posted a pic of the LS 50 crossover and I post the link fyi.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156605.msg1676150#msg1676150
I know very little about parts quality, but I’m surprised to see this. So a crossover upgrade sure looks interesting.

[Nick B]

hi nick,

well, whaddya think about the ls50's? 

i wanted you to check out this review, of the tekton impact monitors.  i realize that they're likely a bit larger than what you're looking for, but, having heard the larger double impact floorstanders at the caf last fall, and being very impressed, even if they cost double their $3k retail price, i was interested in reading about the $2k impact monitors.  in this review, terry london directly compares them to the kef ls50's and things look pretty grim for the kef's in comparison:
"...when it comes to soundstaging, bass extension, the ability to reveal micro-details, and the density of tonality and timbres, the Impact Monitors significantly outclass these English monitors...."

so, out of curiosity, i responded in the email section; here's the q/a:

dougie_s  RN2013 • 4 days ago
+1 - my thoughts/questions exactly. (my add to a prior commenter, wanting to know how terry thought they'd sound in a big room)

my present listening room is ~8400sf, (26x38x8.5). and, i presently have a pair of kef ls50's set up, which sound superb driven by a mesa baron at the 80w setting (1/3 pentode - 2/3 triode), crossed over at 70hz/24db per octave, to a pair of vmps larger subs.

so, especially considering your comment about the ls50's, i am wondering about the tekton monitors vs the double-impact's. i've always liked the idea of monitors crossed over to subs; i've had tiny proac ref sig 8's sounding mitey-fine in this room...

i heard the double-impacts at the caf last fall in a far-from-ideal room, and thought they sounded pretty amazing, especially considering the price...

thanks,

doug s.

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Terry London  dougie_s • 4 days ago
Hey Doug,

First, I believe that using the Impact Monitors in your current setup would be a significant upgrade compared to your LS-50's. If you like pairing monitors with subs, stick with that arrangement, however the Double Impact's would also work and sound superlative with or without subs in your room.[/i]

anyway, here's the review:
https://hometheaterreview.com/tekton-design-impact-monitor-bookshelf-speaker-reviewed/


doug s.

Well, the LS 50s have arrived. Look to be in good shape and they are smaller than I thought...which is good. I’ll likely get them going tonight. Also spoke with Danny today re servo subs and an AC member Jay does flat packs, so it may all work out.
There’s also an AC member Maty who posted a pic of the LS 50 crossover and I post the link fyi.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156605.msg1676150#msg1676150
I know very little about parts quality, but I’m surprised to see this. So a crossover upgrade sure looks interesting.

Doug,
Sad to say, I’ve yet to hook them up. I needed to tape and paint the baseboards behind the audio rack and I did put on a first, not quite perfect yet, coat. There’s a reason I put it off as the kneeling, squatting etc is a pita. And it’s hard to paint a very clean edge. Now that I also got my two week yard project done, I should be able to finish it tomorrow.
It’s very interesting you should mention these same Tektons. I was seriously looking at them, but Eric the owner of Tekton, talked me out of it. He recommended a bigger floorstander after I discussed my specific desires as to a standmount speaker. Also, the first time I spoke with him, he seemed distracted or disinterested and I then sent emails to his secretary...maybe wife...and she responded to my questions. My experience is similar to a few comments I read on the web. It didn’t sit well with me and I lost interest. It would, however, solve the problems of me trying to find a smaller sub.
Doug, after having read your many posts, I have a good hunch that you have a good ear and your comments about the LS 50s are quite encouraging.
There’s also the issue of upgrading the 50s crossover as Danny brought that up in our discussion about subs. So hopefully tomorrow it’ll be done. The upgraded Uber will need to break in and things settle in and then I’ll report
Nick

[Nick B]

Doug,
Sad to say, I’ve yet to hook them up. I needed to tape and paint the baseboards behind the audio rack and I did put on a first, not quite perfect yet, coat. There’s a reason I put it off as the kneeling, squatting etc is a pita. And it’s hard to paint a very clean edge. Now that I also got my two week yard project done, I should be able to finish it tomorrow.
It’s very interesting you should mention these same Tektons. I was seriously looking at them, but Eric the owner of Tekton, talked me out of it. He recommended a bigger floorstander after I discussed my specific desires as to a standmount speaker. Also, the first time I spoke with him, he seemed distracted or disinterested and I then sent emails to his secretary...maybe wife...and she responded to my questions. My experience is similar to a few comments I read on the web. It didn’t sit well with me and I lost interest. It would, however, solve the problems of me trying to find a smaller sub.
Doug, after having read your many posts, I have a good hunch that you have a good ear and your comments about the LS 50s are quite encouraging.
There’s also the issue of upgrading the 50s crossover as Danny brought that up in our discussion about subs. So hopefully tomorrow it’ll be done. The upgraded Uber will need to break in and things settle in and then I’ll report
Nick

yes, i understand the home project thing.  due to my work situation, and a move gone haywire, thanks to my movers totally screwing up the job, one thing led to another, and it took me a year to finally get my main rig set up in the main room - i also needed to do paint/drywall/wood trim work prior to final set-up.  and, i now am left w/a torn left shoulder rotator cuff, which isn't getting any better, so there will be a surgery in my future...   

anyway, ya, i think i have a pretty good ear, and i do think you will like the ls50's even if the tekton's are better - ha! 

and, while i understand your desire for monitor-sized speakers, i still think that, since they really don't take up any more room than comparable floor standers, all you really need is a decent hand-truck for the few times you might have to move them.  and i can say w/o doubt that the tekton double impacts really do not need subs in any normally sized room.  my present room is a bit larger than normal.  of course, w/the double impacts, you could get a pair of subs to run in th rear of the room, out-of-phase, letting the tektons run full-range, to really even out bass nodes, and lower distortion even further...   

doug s.

Sorry to hear about the shoulder. I have quite a few gripes about contractors/vendors and the difficulty in finding someone good and reliable.

After your post, I did a quick search and found some comments about the Impact monitors and LS 50s on Agon
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tekton-impact-monitors

It seems as of last summer, only a few of the Impact Monitors were out there. I kept doing searches and looking in YouTube, but hardly anything. So it’s something to definitely consider if the little 50s don’t pan out.

As to heavy things....like speakers.... I disconnected the huge watern fountain urn in the backyard and replaced it with a lighter, more compact unit. That beast was heavy and no way to even get it on a hand truck.

My living room/listening area is small, so anything on a larger scale. would be out of place
Nick

[tmazz]

My living room/listening area is small, so anything on a larger scale. would be out of place

I know the feeling. That is exactly why since we moved to the new house my Thiels are boxed up in the garage and the Boxers are running in the main system.

(Although, if all goes according to plan, the Thiels will be getting set up (although temporarily) in the Family Room for the Orchard Audio demo at the AudioSyndrome meeting at the end of this month.  )

[Nick B]

To paraphrase the good Dr Frankenstein....they’re alive!! they’re alive!! He was, of course, talking about the KEF LS 50s. After finishing my painting touch ups, I awoke them from their slumber and hooked these tiny tots up and they are singing!

It was a bit of a rough start as I couldn’t use my very stiff, solid copper power cords, the Uber had different receptacles, the McCormack wasn’t warmed up and there was a slight hum in the left speaker. But all that be damned, I fired it up and after 45 minutes, things started sounding pretty good. The initial placement of the KEFs is 18” from the side and front walls and a slight toe in. They’re 7’ apart and I’m 11’ feet back. I haven't fiddled with the KEF foam port inserts. I just set them up this way and sat down and listened...after a 5 month, sad hiatus....

These tiny tots are tuneful. The tonality, timbre, resolution and soundstaging are very good, especially for a uni driver like this. As I had thought, it has a similar presentation to the SP Techs. I can crank the 50s and they handle it just fine. The soundstage is large and similar to the SPs.

The only hiccup so far is Tidal is either slow sending data or my router is having connectivity issues.
I’ll put a lot of hours on these and hopefully will continue to be very pleasantly surprised. And yes, they could benefit from a sub, but it’s not an absolute necessity.

Nick