Author Topic: My DIY Speaker options  (Read 23772 times)

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2010, 05:47:31 AM »
Just what I need.... another addiction!   :rofl:   Thanks Henry.

Offline Face

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2010, 09:31:29 AM »
A listing of completed DIY designs: http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39

I would keep my eye on the completion of these projects though, especially if you are a fan of Accuton.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=36370
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=33995

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2010, 09:40:47 AM »
Great links Face, thanks! Lots to read there...

Offline Carlman

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2010, 02:23:28 PM »
I've read lots of info on these projects, not so much on the results.  I've noticed this throughout many DIY speaker projects documented online.. they work really hard discussing the plan and implementation but then there's not so much info on the listening results.  Is that just the nature of DIY?  Is it part of the fun to figure out what it might sound like?  
-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2010, 02:50:01 PM »
Good point Carl. DIY lives on hype and frugality, neither consistently lend towards great real world results. That's why I'm skeptical of the line array project,  even though I respect John Murphy very much. I would like to see someone else get good results before I attempt. So far the one guy that has tried has not succeeded, but he did not heed the design recommendations. Most of the others I understand enough about the design to know how to make it work. The Troels speakers have a few positive anecodotal reviews, but his designs in general are widely regarded to be superb. I understand how he designed it and each step of the design, I know what the compromises are and what it should sound like. I'm familiar enough with the Feastrex driver to know its limitations and strengths too. 

It is fun to build with anticipation of great sound for cheap money. But if you understand the details of the design you should be able to imagine accurately what it will sound like. The Line Array is so differnt than anything I've heard before that's why I don't know what to expect. So from that pers[pective it would be fun to buy the drivers for $700 and see what it does. I can always sell them to the next sucker who is curious to try out the design. Odds are that because the designer is so experienced and accomplished and familiar with line arrays that it will be at least decent. Good for head banging and Ginormous symphony explosions. I worry whether the high freq finesse will be there. Actually I suspect it will be compromised. How could it not with 30 drivers?  That's what I mean by knowing enough about speaker design so you can recognize the potential weaknesses.

Offline Carlman

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2010, 02:56:14 PM »
I'm glad you've got enough speaker wisdom to get into the DIY part of the hobby.  Speaker building requires more discipline, learning and patience than I have.. And the time factor is pretty huge also.  I think you're well into the learning curve so it sounds like more fun as you've described it.. but I would be painting a much bleaker picture if I was asked to DIY speakers. ;)

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2010, 04:42:44 PM »
I know enough to be dangerous, but far from wise. Passive crossovers is the hard part. I hope to avoid that as long as possible. Let's hope it's not so bad so you can just kick back and enjoy the fruits of my labors when(if) the sawdust settles, and not just sit there cringing in pain trying to be nice. At least you know you won't be the first to yell "That sounds like A**!"  (SLA) opposite of (LES)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 04:45:17 PM by richidoo »

Offline bmr3hc

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2010, 06:12:19 PM »
No way I would ever attempt a DIY project. Heck, It takes me forever, just to get speaker placement right.

Henry
"If music be the food of love, play on."  Shakespeare

Offline Rob S.

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 278
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2010, 07:31:33 PM »
Sometimes I think the quickest way to piss my wife off and have her gladly approve a large audio purchase is to tell her I plan to build the speaker/ component/ etc.  Then follows my description of how long it will take, all the tools I need to buy, all the housework that doesn't get done, missed kids sporting events/ activities and lots of late night work, and she quickly responds,  You're crazy, just buy it!!!

Rob
No new money spent on audio!!  but starting in 2012!!

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 12088
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2010, 09:12:34 PM »
I've read lots of info on these projects, not so much on the results.  I've noticed this throughout many DIY speaker projects documented online.. they work really hard discussing the plan and implementation but then there's not so much info on the listening results.  Is that just the nature of DIY?  Is it part of the fun to figure out what it might sound like?  
-C

I spent quite a few years building Hot Rods with a friend of mine for the Custom Car show circuit. (and you think we can piss away money in this hobby?) It never failed that at any given show more than half of the cars on display were also for sale. It seemed that the guys who built cars for these shows got their kicks out id building them, not owning them. Once the car was finished it wasn't that much fun any more (and they needed the cash tied up in it to finance their next project.)

I would think it is much the same with DYI audiophiles. Their goal is to build as close to perfect a piece of equipment as possible, but since perfection can never be obtained, their building Jones is never satisfied.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline TomS

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
  • Yeah, it's just a hobby...
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2010, 04:40:56 AM »
I've read lots of info on these projects, not so much on the results.  I've noticed this throughout many DIY speaker projects documented online.. they work really hard discussing the plan and implementation but then there's not so much info on the listening results.  Is that just the nature of DIY?  Is it part of the fun to figure out what it might sound like?  
-C

I spent quite a few years building Hot Rods with a friend of mine for the Custom Car show circuit. (and you think we can piss away money in this hobby?) It never failed that at any given show more than half of the cars on display were also for sale. It seemed that the guys who built cars for these shows got their kicks out id building them, not owning them. Once the car was finished it wasn't that much fun any more (and they needed the cash tied up in it to finance their next project.)

I would think it is much the same with DYI audiophiles. Their goal is to build as close to perfect a piece of equipment as possible, but since perfection can never be obtained, their building Jones is never satisfied.
This is spot on for my situation except I do also go through phases where I just buy some gear in between.  I built a ton of Pass designs, Aikido's, and other DIY's, which sound great, but there is a bit of a let down when the battle to finish it is over.  I bought some gear after that, then scratched the itch again building some subs recently.  Since the wood work was fairly new to me, fancy new power tools grace my workshop too, somehow justified by the satisfaction and peace from building it myself.  Amazingly my wife is good with that since it seems to temper other life stresses as well.

And so it goes...
PS Audio Directstream DAC, PS Audio BHK Signature Preamp, Nagra Classic Amp, Focal Sopra No 2's, SVS SB16 Ultra

Offline Carlman

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2010, 04:51:00 AM »
I agree with your observation, tmazz.. I used to be like that.. just build and build (insert hobby here) to get to some point but when you got it just right, or very close, it was over.  I have had to learn how to appreciate a finished product.  It is a new sensation for me.  To sit back and actually appreciate what you've done and just say, "that's it" while enjoying (the attachment to music, for example) you've created is just awesome.  

I appreciate the drive and enthusiasm that you can only get from chasing that perfect design, or sound, or other goal.  It's a good thing and if it weren't for that there wouldn't be any new gear.  

I was just wondering if anyone ever really validated results or did comparisons with known gear.  The only DIY speakers I've compared were 'just ok' playing next to Usher 718's.

Rich, when you get your custom active room corrected complete package system together, I want to hear it.  I will not grin and bear it, I'm sure it'll be divine.

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6957
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2010, 06:00:10 AM »
OK, now you guys are forcing me out of my neat little box. I thought 6 choices would be enough for you to choose?  :rofl:

Someday I'll hear 20.1 Magnepans, I look forward to that. Funny the opportunity has never presented. But the price of that project is not in the cards now anyway. I figure about $13k for used speakers and suitable amps? I would prefer a more sensitive speaker that will work with more amps that visit my house. Thanks Bry

I meant to say Coincident Pure Reference, not Total Victory. The one with the ceramic drivers, high efficiency and easy impedance.  I did look at Arthur's ad and review. Thanks shep!  When I scan Audiogon I always hit Coincident, Atma-sphere, Manley and JPS. I've never seen a Pure Reference for sale though, good sign.  So those would be big bucks too.  I'd rather build it myself anyway.

Charles, I couldn't find anything with Accuton and Cabasse together. Couldn't find ORCA either.

Thanks for the advice guys. More!


 It is www.orcadesign.com Zalytron www.zalytron.com used to carry Cabasse but I do not see them listed any longer.


charles
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 06:05:28 AM by rollo »
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

miklorsmith

  • Guest
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2010, 07:57:00 AM »
I built a pair of speakers, one.  (remember Johnny Dangerously - "Don't hang me on a hook Johnny, my mother hung me on a hook once - Once.")  :)  It was the TNT Big Fun Box with 8" Fostex 206Es, there are pix in my gallery here.  They had me sell my Gallo 3.0s but weren't the end of the line.  That started me on the road to the Def. 2's.

I still have the BFBs, but now they have Omega Hemp drivers in there.  Louis doesn't sell them, I got a used pair second hand a while back.  They live in my garage, as ugly as ever but I have a Squeezebox out there with an old Onkyo receiver and I look forward to projects out there so I can listen to that rig.  The receiver has bass/treble controls which the speaks need as the room's too big but the drivers are burly and can make real bass if properly massaged.  I'll probably have these speakers forever.

In the past I've played around with them as replacements for the Defs.  When I was 'without' between the Pros and the 2s I had them in my main room with the good gear.  I've also used them as replacements in my new, way-smaller room.  Other people don't think so, but I've lived with both enough to trust myself here - the essential tone is surprisingly close.  There are a lot of important things the homebrews can't do that the Defs do but the genetic similarity is undeniable, and fun!

I say go for the spheres, that sounds like a super-cool idea.  You'll need subs but there's part of the beauty.  If you get the loading right in the main cabs you won't need any tweaking from (hopefully) 100 hz up.  Then whatever EQ/phase/XO stuff you need can be done completely with the subs.  IME, 80 hz with a steep slope is a good target for sub XO.  That's about the lowest end of Johnny Cash's voice.  If you can get there with the monitors you can have your cake and eat it too.  Of course this requires uncommon sub controls.  

Most have "frequency" which is a necessary start, almost none have slope.  That's not the end of the world but it does limit how high the sub can go without mucking things up.  Most have a phase switch but not continuous control.  I wouldn't buy a sub without continuous phase.  I've measured differences between 'right' and 'wrong' at 28 db which is a ridiculous amount.  Sean at Zu said if you're within 25-ish degrees of correct you're getting I think 80% positive contribution at the overlap but with continuous phase you can get it perfect.  Without it, there's a strong chance you're not close to 25 degrees.

The other option is that you move the sub all over the room to get phase correct, which may not be best for maximum output or best sound.  So you have an imperfect choice.

Then having at the very least 2 bands of parametric EQ is so important to me.  More is better.  Better-than-flat, in-room bass response is oh so tasty.

Gopher it Rich!

o yea, I'd definitely listen to the Coincidents before buying, hopefully more than once.  Not my cuppa.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2010, 08:04:16 AM by miklorsmith »

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: My DIY Speaker options
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2010, 08:13:19 AM »
When you think about it, all commercial designers were once DIYers. They measured and perfected their designs then went commercial for whatever reason. But they are still the same people with same talents. In time they improve, some don't. But they hang a shingle so they are not considered DIYers anymore. It's logical to assume that some DIYers who don't want to build for others are still more talented and qualified than the guys who want the fame and hassle of going pro.  But their speakers don't get reviewed, or even heard by anyone else. Gary Pimm is an example. He made a subwoofer powered by tube amp, everything optimized for perfect synergy. He doesn't want to deal with the DIY vampires so it is not published. We all know he is a genius in other electronic areas, but who knew he built speakers too?

I do feel great satisfaction when I do woodworking. So speaker building has that added appeal, but the major attarction to DIY is in imagining how awesome it will sound playing my fav music when I am all done. Sometimes it sounds good, but so far it has not lived up to my expectations. But I keep trying, a little wiser from the previous mistakes and with a few new ideas how to solve them. The temptation to build someone elses design comes from desire to get a good success under my belt, and learn even more than blind fumbling on my own.  But not many Feastrex designs published.

I've always been building or tinkering with models or inventions for many years. So this is no different, just the same tendencies pointed in a new direction. If I'm able to make a speaker that is good I would have fun making a few for other people. But I don't have any illusion of building an empire or being famous or any visions like that.

To me the music listening is still the most important thing. The woodworking or speaker design puzzle solving is not the hobby. I have other puzzle hobbies and other woodworking goals that are more rewarding for less work. So it's the anticipation of the thrill of hearing music more intensely that draws me.  

I checked Orca website, looks like some great stuff there. Thanks Charles!