AudioNervosa
Group Therapy => NC Triangulation => Topic started by: hometheaterdoc on August 19, 2009, 10:06:04 AM
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Everyone,
It's "Grand Opening" time for my new place. Saturday, September 12th, 2009. We'll go from 4PM until whenever everyone leaves. If folks want to come earlier than that, no problem... but not before noon if at all possible :)
As of right now, there will be multiple setups on display, but the majority of time will be spent listening in the main 2 channel room unless others object.....
There are still some goodies that haven't yet arrived that will hopefully be on display for folks to listen to. But mostly, this will be a meet to show you what's new at my place and hear my new spaces. I'd like to keep the gear swapping to as much of a minimum as possible.... or rather that we limit the gear swapping to what I have on hand here because I do have a number of potential setups in each room.
Gear will include, but isn't limited to:
Harbeth Loudspeakers' (http://www.harbeth.co.uk/uk/index.php?section=products&page=introducingourspeakers) Monitor 40.1, the all new P3ESR in rosewood finish & Compact 7ES-3 speakers
Era Loudspeakers' (http://signalpathint.com/index.php/Comparative/era-Speakers.html) Design 14 floorstanders, Design 4 & Design 5 bookshelf speakers, as well as their matching center channels and surrounds
Leon Speakers' (http://www.leonspeakers.com/hzultima.html) Horizon Ultima LCR with Ultima Surrounds
Butler Audio amplifiers (http://www.butleraudio.com/) including Monad monoblocks and TDB-5150
Oracle Audio DAC1000 (http://www.oracle-audio.com/product_dac1000.html?id=p_1000&info=info) DAC and preamp combo
David Belles electronics (http://www.powermodules.com/power_modules/Products_menu.html) including the new SA-30 pure Class A amplifier
Peachtree Audio (http://signalpathint.com/index.php/Peachtree-Audio-Products/Peachtree-Audio-Products.html) Nova integrated amplifier solution including integrated ESS DAC
Running Springs Audio (http://www.runningspringsaudio.com/index.htm) power conditioners including Dmitri, Jaco, and Haley
JPS Labs Cables (http://www.jpslabs.com) throughout including Aluminata, SuperConductor 3, SuperConductor Q, and UltraConductor2.
I haven't decided if it's going to be a BBQ or if I'll just order some pizza. But plan to bring your own beverages if you don't like my selection of adult beverages and soda. Anything else you want to bring along is fine by me. I'll try to have a few munchies for everyone.
Email or PM me for directions. If you can find Carl's, I'm just up the street practically :) Post here if you know you will be attending so I can get an idea of a head count. Looking forward to it! See you all very soon!
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I'm IN :D!
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Shane, count me in but it'll be early and, unfortunately, short since I'm heading out of town the next morning.
Looking forward to seeing your fully decked-out place and see and hear all your new toys! :drool:
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:D I'm in also.
Rob S.
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I got a preview last week and it was sweet, Belles / 40.1s. Shane says it sounds even better when the room is setup for max audio instead of max WAF. :D
Can't wait. Thanks!
Looking forward to seeing everyone again, and welcoming Rob S down from WV.
Rich
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Cool, out of town guests! Welcome, Rob! Looking forward to meeting you..
I plan to be there also.. Looking forward to it.. let me know if you need help, or chairs... or whatever I have.
-C
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Update:
The room is starting to sound even better now that I'm getting closer to having all the panels positioned... I will likely still have to do some stuff with the flooring and bass trapping at a later date. But not just yet... I want to enjoy having no projects for a little while first, no matter what it sounds like :)
One new gear addition that I can now reveal to the mix of equipment to listen to at the upcoming meet. The LFD MCSE integrated amp, based on just a few hours last night right out of the box, is definitely a keeper. I'm looking forward to folks getting a chance to listen to this thing. It's just remarkable how good it sounds right out of the box and how much it went in the right direction in just a few hours of play time...
Several more goodies are still planned to be here by the 12th. Until they actually show up, they will remain a surprise as I'm still trying to work out the logistics. Another pair of speakers I planned to have won't be here in time because of a backorder situation...
Looking forward to having folks over. It's really starting to sound good....
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I split off the LFD discussion, I think we will be talking about it a lot in the weeks to come.
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=1591.0
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sounds great. I'm in too.
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I was lucky enough to hear the Belles/40.1 combo at AKFest a couple years ago. Even in a crappy hotel room, you could hear that it had the potential to be something sweet. I'd love to hear it set up properly in a room with some space to play with.
Bryan
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The Belles amp works extremely well with the Harbeth. Very transparent with a ton of resolution without faking it and ending up forward and harsh. I'm hoping the VT-01 preamp arrives in time to use for the get together. I'm assured it will and I'm hoping I have enough time to put some hours on it before the show... it will be stock tubes as I don't have ones to roll in it.
I'm also hoping that I'll have a Sol version of the Twisted Pear Buffalo32 DAC to show off. Rich brought over his stock unit and we had a listen to it without a lot of time on it. I could hear the potential, but it definitely needed some changes to compete with the Oracle. All kinds of new parts have been ordered to make some changes. Here's hoping Sol has enough time between now and the meet to get the unit together so we can listen to his progress.
I was going to finally bring the Acoustic Zen Adagio speakers out of their boxes and see if anyone liked the sound of them at the meet and wanted to take them home.... they've been in storage for over a year and I honestly forget I still have them most of the time. I keep saying I need to open them back up again every time I notice them. But I think Henry may have taken care of them for me. I brought them over to his house last night and I must say, after a little bit of playing to get things loosened up in them, they were just about perfect for his room and equipment. I had forgotten how absolutely incredible they can sound with the right gear combination..... It was a late night getting home after listening for a while (and I have a feeling Henry was up a little later after I left). I could totally live with Henry's setup for quite some time. It was absolutely singing last night even in a less than ideal room setup. Good company and great sounding music... doesn't get much better than that....
more goodies hopefully to announce as we get closer to the date....
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I didn't know you still had those Adagios! Anyone but Henry and I would be jealous! I heard them at RMAF 06 with Response 100W tube amps, and Modwright preamp, one of the very best sounds I ever heard. Much more musical than his other big speakers.
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I plan to attend the G2G. Not sure of the time due to work. I want to thank Shane for bringing over the Adagios. These are great speakers. I have owed Maggies for 15 years and Spendors for 4 years. Both are special. The Adagios are magical. Midrange is reminiscent of the Maggies. Not quite as transparent, but you don't feel like you are missing anything. The bass region is very impressive with my tube amp. Clean, deep and quick.The circular ribbon tweeter will get you in high heaven. The best part is the speaker is still in the breaking -in mode. This is a keeper. Never thought I would consider selling my Spendors until I heard the Adagios. Rich you got to hear these with the Music Reference tube amp and the Conrad Johnson pre-amp.
Henry
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Rich you got to hear these with the Music Reference tube amp and the Conrad Johnson pre-amp.
I'm all over it!! Shane told me your new system is a rare example of perfect system synergy. Those speakers were in my favorite system at my first RMAF, 06 with Response Audio 100W amps and Modwright preamp. I played Beethoven 5th Symphony on it, I couldn't believe how incredible it sounded. I have heard Acoustic Zen's newer bigger speakers - neither are as wholesome and magical as those Adagios. Congrats Henry!
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All right, everyone! Tomorrow's the day!
Updates:
An Exemplar Audio DAC is in the house as of about an hour ago thanks to the rep for the company. This is a demo piece as far as I can tell and doesn't need any break-in. It's got two inputs, a coaxial and this one is installed with the optional AES/EBU connection. Three sets of outputs: balanced XLR, an RCA set that are labelled as transister out, and an RCA set that are labeled as tube out. 5 minutes out of the "tube out" RCA set has shown a lot of promise. Very different than the Oracle....
A Belles VT-01 tube preamp is also unboxed and breaking in as of about an hour ago. This, unfortunately, is a brand spankin' new unit with no time on it at all. I'm feeding the Oppo Blu Ray player into it with audio CD on repeat at the moment and will run it non-stop until the meet tomorrow. It's definitely not going to sound as good as it can... but hopefully folks will get the chance to hear some of its potential.
I know that parts got delayed in shipment. So I don't have confirmation yet on whether or not a Sol creation will make it to the meet. He's dramatically altering a Twisted Pear Audio Buffalo32 DAC kit for me to see if we can make it sound in the same league as the Oracle. Stock it wasn't even close.... but you could hear the potential. No idea if it will make it and if it does, it will not be fully broken in at all.... but may provide some entertainment for those interested.
Acoustics wise, it's really starting to come together... only a couple more panels to put up... but I fixed the stairwell ringing and hallway ringing... so the upstairs room is sounding much better... now lots of cleaning up and a few final component hookups to have everything playing music in time for tomorrow...
I've heard from a few folks privately via email. But if folks can re-confirm now that the date is upon us if you know for certain you will be attending, I would really appreciate it. I just want to know so I can make sure I have enough munchies and drinks. If anyone would like to bring something, you're more than welcome. I don't do healthy at all... but the better half is pushing me to BBQ some chicken and stuff instead of ordering pizzas... so I guess that sort of counts? It's as healthy as I'm going to get anyways :) hehe
I look forward to seeing you all tomorrow!
Shane
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I'm still IN :drool:!!!
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I'm coming, and Sol too. RichardS is riding with me. RobS is still planning to come, will arrive directly at your place, so he might show up a little early. I gave him your address and cellphone. I wil bring some kind of vegetable food. Then we will hold you down and force you to eat it.
Last two days I have been making a nice little box for the BuffaloDAC, it came out nice, but plain. You can paint it or contact paper it, or sell it. I dropped it at Sol's house this afternoon. He will mod the DAC tonight and stuff the box. It will be ready! But I'm sure it won't be the final version. I for one want a tube output version. All in good time. The Altmann DAC is halfway to Australia by now and I am very happy for the upgrade. I wil bring my stock Buffalo to compare to Sol's upgrade.
Rich
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Shane:
I am planning to be there! I will ask Vera to make something and try to advise you in the AM about what she is agreeable to making!
Ken
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I'll be there early (4ish) but I'm afraid I'll only be there for an hour or two... Too much going on...
See you then!
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I'll probably be coming a bit later... it'll be a busy day... going to Rick's to hear my speakers compared stock vs. upgraded at 3, which should be fun :) ... but might take a while.
-C
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I'll probably be coming a bit later... it'll be a busy day... going to Rick's to hear my speakers compared stock vs. upgraded at 3, which should be fun :) ... but might take a while.
-C
Carl:
When we see you we hope to see you smiling from ear to ear!
Ken
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Shane,
Thank you for your hospitality!!! Your new house is very nice, indeed.
I can't say that I did that much listening tonight, especially in the 'sweet-spot'. I was just as happy catching up with most of the gang. It's always so great to be around such a great group of guys.
Looking forward to the next G2G :drool:.
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Thanks Shane and Melissa. You have a beautiful home, and it was a great party. I enjoyed the DAC comparison, the Harbeth C7 and LFD Zero, and the main system of course. And seeing so many friends together for the first time in a long time. Great g2g/...
Rich
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Ditto what Rich and Steve said. Thanks Shane. Sorry I had to leave so early but it's always great to catch up with everyone and put a face with the many people I meet online here.
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A very special thank you to Shane and Melissa for hosting a wonderful G2G last night. Shane and Melissa have a beautiful home that would be the envy of any audio or home theater movie lover!
It was great to see all of the local gang again and it was nice that some new guys were able to attend. Also, I have traded messages with RobS from West Virginia for a long time and it was nice to finally be able to meet him.
Shane had far to much gear for me to remember half of it. The Harbeth 40.1 speakers in the main 2 channel room downstairs have a very nice sound and classic looks of box speakers dating back to my college days. They were being powered by an LFD MCSE integrated amp. Guys, I was really impressed with this amp and it's little brother upstairs.
I think the only serious gear comparison of the evening was with two Twisted Pear Buffalo32 DACs against the Oracle. One of the Buffalo 32's was stock and the other had some upgraded parts. While I believe the consensus was that the Oracle presented the music with more weight the Buffalo's were extremely impressive. The Oracle is without question the best DAC we have heard at any of our G2G's. However, the Buffalo's are magnificent and when you consider they are roughly 1/10th the price of the Oracle it makes them an incredible value. I believe our whole group was extremely impressed. Also, it was funny to watch Carlman having to be the remote control on the floor by the amp as the LFD has no remote.
Shane had a system set-up upstairs and had us listen to a pair of Harbeth P3ESR in rosewood finish & Compact 7ES-3 speakers in Cherry Finish. These speakers were powered by the small LFD amp. The 7ES are great and are prefect to run full range in a smaller room. For me the P3ESR were very special and would be ideal as mains in an HT system running with a sub. Guys, I loved these speakers and the WAF would be off the chart!
I will end now by saying I really enjoy spending time with this group. The guys have tremendous experience with audio systems and have helped me so much in avoiding foolish investments.
Shane, thanks again.
Ken
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A Big Thanks to Shane and Melissa from me too! I really appreciated you opening your home to us and sharing all your nice gear. I know a LOT of work has gone into it and you're really defining your space and gear in a way that's progressed a long way (since I've known you). It's fun to follow along on your audio journey.
I got a little seat time on the gear and was a human remote for a while also... and I'll echo Ken's comments about the DAC comparison.. I can also say that in that system, the Oracle didn't sound as aggresive to me as I expected. The Harbeth/LFD combo was a bit polite but still revealing. I couldn't wrap my head around it. I can't just say it's warm and musical.. it was.. but it's also detailed and punchy.. and it's not just neutral either.. so, the system is hard to describe other than saying 'a bit polite'.
One nice thing about this G2G is that it was walking distance from my home... so I could just party all night with no regrets! Right? hahaha.. well.. 'wee-fun' has converted to 'where's my coffee? oy my head!'... but so be it.. I had a great time and thoroughly enjoyed meeting new folks and chatting with everyone.
I hope Rob brings his bike next time... And I hope Jim participates with us more as well.
Thanks again!
Carl
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Really nice Ken. It was a very special night, everyone felt good, lots of love in the air. I agree with your take on the pretty Harbeths. Hard to believe a speaker such a innocuous looking box could make such extreme sounds. The synergy with the LFDs was extremely good. PRat, detail, refinement, looks, it's all there. And the price/performance is excellent value too. My "make a change" hormones were stimulated when I first heard the C7/Zero combo!
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First off, thanks to everyone who attended. It was great to see old friends and meet a few new folks. I appreciate you all taking the time to stop by and socialize, as well as listen to a little bit of music.
Because there were so many combinations and permutations of gear possible, as is typical with one of our meets, there was no way to get to everything and hear everything, especially in a comparison type situation... After everyone heading out around midnight, Sol stayed behind for what was supposed to be a few minutes... But after listening to his I30 for a few minutes, we swapped in the Butler Monads and honestly, we got far and away the best sound of the night, imo. Pretty soon it was 1:30AM and someone was not happy with me that I was keeping her up blasting music :) hehe I wish we had put the Butlers in the system earlier in the evening for folks to hear.... I need to have another meet very soon :) We didn't listen to the Belles stuff at all and initial listening on the Belles preamp was *very* positive even with no time on the unit at all....
I look forward to hearing others thoughts on sound. Don't hold anything back or be polite. Since almost all of the listening was done downstairs in the 2 channel room and almost exclusively with the LFD NCSE integrated, I'm sure most opinions will be centered on that. The Harbeths are a different animal than I've had in my systems before. We listened at a volume level most of the night that would make the designer shake his head and we listened to a variety of music that I didn't think the Harbeths would excel, but they did all right for the most part. Curious to hear other's thoughts on the subject....
The evening got underway with Rob S., Bigfish and JimJ arriving relatively close together. I was still in grilling mode at that time to get food ready. So other than a few quick passes through the place, it was mostly socializing out by the grill. Ken brought along his Transporter at my request and we spent a while trying to get that connected. I futzed with my new wireless router that was acting very differently than my old one and we finally got that up and going... not the last computer setup issue of the evening, unfortunately.
In the main 2 channel room downstairs, initial listening was done with my audio PC feeding AES/EBU into the Exemplar DAC to the LFD NCSE integrated amplifier to the Harbeth Monitor 40.1s. Cabling was JPS Labs SC3 speaker and digital, with a pair of Aluminata interconnects, a couple Digital AC+ power cords on PC and DAC and a Kaptovator powering the LFD. The Exemplar DAC was plugged into a Running Springs Audio Dmitri that has a JPS Labs 20A Kaptovator. All power circuits are dedicated 20A circuits wired with JPS Labs PowerAC inwall romex that's the equivalent of 10 gauge but seems bigger when you're trying to wire it into a receptacle :). This is the setup that I had been listening to since the Exemplar arrived the day before... but given how much I had left to do in the upstairs audio room before folks arrived, I didn't do a ton of listening, just breaks in between tasks. I like the Exemplar. It's a touch aggressive for my tastes compared to the Oracle DAC1000, but I'm curious to hear it feeding a preamp into the Butler Monads. It might balance well. It does have pretty darn good bass and soundstaging and imaging are very good.
We introduced Ken's Transporter into the system and it had his Black Sands Silver Ref V power cord on it. It was feeding analog into the LFD via a pair of JPS Labs SC3 interconnects. Unfortunately, in my haste to get things up and running, I plugged the Transporter directly into the wall instead of matching it up and plugging it into the RSA Dmitri like all the other digital gear. So comparing back and forth with the Exemplar, each piece had a different sound that I don't know for sure was the component or was the difference in power conditioned versus not power conditioned.
Folks listened to the Transporter equipped setup for a while. It was too aggressive and a touch shrill for me. It was a bit more ragged up top than the Exemplar, but had more growl and heft in the bottom end. I really want to hear the Transporter again in a controlled same environment. I'd like to compare it powered the same against another DAC or three.
After listening to Ken's Transporter exclusively for a while, we swapped back to the Exemplar DAC and listened again to a lot of the same tracks to compare. We used one Eric Clapton track playing on both to swap back and forth to hear the differences. The Exemplar then stayed in the signal path for a while until it was time to do a bit of a DAC off, which took up a large portion of the rest of the evening.
Sol has been doing some surgery on a Twisted Pear Audio Buffalo32 DAC "kit" that I bought in hopes of finding something that could compete with the Oracle Audio DAC1000 for a lot less money. Rich has a stock kit built that we previously heard at my place a few weeks ago that Sol used as a basis for figuring out what he wanted to do to change it up. He literally finished soldering the unit together a few minutes before he drove to my place for the get together. I was curious to hear it though, even with it being straight out of the box as it were with no time on the caps, etc... no time like the present to hear what it could do... so I took over the sweet spot for ~15 minutes to hear the unit. After getting a feel for it, I invited others in to have a little comparison session.
Eventually we got the wiring figured out and had three DACs connected to the LFD integrated amplifier. We had to somewhat cheat as it's difficult with only one source with one digital out capability to quickly swap in between things. This is where the extreme flexibility of the Oracle DAC1000 came in. It's got multiple digital outs to go along with its slew of analog and digital inputs. So we went AES/EBU digital in to the Oracle and it served as one of the DACs. We then used the digital outs of it to feed the two Buffalo32 DAC kits; Rich's stock unit that he has now broken in and the new Sol modified version. Digital cables were again JPS and the analog outputs of each DAC were identical pairs of SC3 RCA ICs feeding the LFD. Power was all plugged into the RSA Dmitri. Power cords were JPS Digital AC+ for the Oracle and Sol modded kit, a captive generic on Rich's unit.
I'll let others comment on the difference between the units. I'll say that it was closer than it had any right to be given the price differential. I still prefer the Oracle and could pick it out easily amongst the three units. But that ESS chip sure is a good chip. I'm curious to do this again after I get some time on the modded unit and everything has had a chance to break in. I will say that both Rich's and Sol's modded unit got a lot better after they were plugged in and turned on for a while. The oracle sounds better when it's left on for a while as well, but it isn't nearly as dramatic a difference as I noted last night with the Twisted Pear units. I want to give special thanks to Carl who suffered through doing the manual switching and volume adjustment on the LFD so that everyone else could sit back, listen, and compare between the units. Hopefully he's not too sore from the injuries he sustained from all that twisting ;)
A big chunk of folks started filtering out after the DAC comparison. After a bit more socializing and general listening, those remaining in attendance wanted to listen upstairs to the smaller Harbeth units. So up we went. After some computer networking issues where my upgrade of the Audio PC downstairs to Windows 7 put it in another workgroup and my upstairs Vista machine could see but not access the fileshares of music, we actually did a little listening to first the Harbeth Compact 7s. A/B comparison of the same NY Rave disk on the Oppo digital Blu Ray player with my bone stock audio PC was interesting. Both were feeding digital audio into the Peachtree Audio Nova all in one unit. It has an ESS Sabre DAC chip as well in it as well, just a different version than the one in the Twisted Pear DAC "kits". I used only the DAC in the Peachtree and went fixed output of it via a pair of JPS Labs SC3 RCA interconnects into the LFD Zero LE III integrated amplifier. This is the baby brother of the NCSE used in the downstairs system. Speaker cabling was JPS Labs SuperConductor Q single wire as it was the only pair of cables I had with spades small enough to fit into the plastic covered binding posts of the LFD unit. All my other wires use oversize spades as I have a few amps that need that to make life easier... plus the one pair of cables I had with the locking bananas was in use in the system downstairs...
Anyways, we listened to the Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 for a little bit, then swapped and listened to the new P3ESR mini monitors in Rosewood vener. Some folks really seemed to like these speakers. I honestly haven't listened to them enough to draw much of an opinion yet other than they seem to be the most cohesive/integrated of all the speakers I have, but definitely need some bottom end help if you want to really rock out with them. They are a sealed design with a small midwoofer.
After some interesting photo opportunities of folks on the elliptical machine, it was at this point that I launched my evil plan on the unsuspecting remaining attendees. It was a nefarious plan to unload some of my A/V furniture on them that I had left in the house after the change to Salamander equipment racks that "she who shall be obeyed" ordered to hide the gear and wires. Fire sale pricing at 75+% off my dealer pricing ensued and I got one taker on the 3" thick solid walnut amp stands. Ken got a nice price on a Star Sound Technologies Sistrum Platform shelf... but no one took the bigger racks off my hands... Had I been more organized and showed off the units to all the other folks that had been in attendance earlier in the evening, I might have found more takers.... I also had a nest of cables that I needed to get rid of as well... I might have been able to entice some folks to help me clear them out of storage... oh well, audiogon I guess.....
After packing up the amp stands, folks started gathering up their things and heading out. It was midnight by this point....Carl wandered home and others packed up their vehicles and said their goodbyes. Sol stuck around and we listened to his I30 for a while. I started cleaning up a bit in between listens so someone wouldn't have a fit when they got home. I really like the potential in his I30, but it needs more current to get better control on the bass. It does fall apart a bit when the volume goes up and the amp runs out of power reserves. Upping this design to have the same power as the I60 I think will make for a nice unit. We then swapped in the Butler Monads for a listen and I finally started to relax and just enjoy music. The Butlers really exacerbate the remaining floor and bass trapping issue I need to take care of in the 2 channel room... but they sound so darn good that it's hard not to listen to them.
Thanks again to everyone who attended. I had fun and can't wait to do this again.
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RobS stayed at my place last night, so today we continued the exploration with some comparisons of tube amps and DACs. He had some nice CDs that I had never heard and really liked. Jon Butler?
We compared stereofools ARC VT100mk3 which I just love to his Music Reference RM200. The RM200 was amazing. It seemed clearer and harder bass. The AR puts a huge tone on everything which make music sound majestic and powerful, even DAC direct, with no preamp. The RM200 is more revealling, leaner and faster, but benefitted greatly from the addition of Sols sweet little Cary slp98 preamp that I am borrowing. I loved both of these amps. We asked Henry to join us with his MR RM9 on Friday night, but it didn't come together. That's another really great amp, maybe slightly sweeter highs than the RM200, but not as much bass slam. The RM200 bass is easily on par with some of th better SS amps I have had visiting. Impact and clarity is amazing.
After the amp comparo, we compared DACs. His VanAlstine T8 DAC vs Buffalo32. The T8 put a nice wholesome glow on this which sounded good on my sparce symphonic recordings, but fuzzed up the audiophilish rock recordings. The Buffalo was judged to be our favorite. We could not discern any soundstage disadvantage to the opamp powered Buffalo DAC compred to the 6N1P powered T8 DAC.
When we first auditioned the Buffalo at Shanes a week ago, it sounded closed in and syuffy compared to Oracle. The only things I have changed since then are new box made out masonite, and WBT Nexgen RCA analog outputs. The other thing I changed which probably explains the newfound clarity and openness of the stocker is that I cut some PCB traces as recommended in the Buffalo manual. The explanation for why to cut them was not specific enough, it just said don't cut if you will use for headphones. With amps, cut it to lower output impedance to 22ohms. I don't need 22ohm output impedance going to a 250kOhm inputZ tube amp so I didn't bother cutting the traces, I though I could put a headphone jack on the DAC and get dual use. But Sol later explained to me that the traces need to be cut if you intend to use the DAC with capacitive cables, or into amplifer. Not just to lower impedance but to greatly enhance stability of the output stage. Sure enough a couple days after original audition at Shanes last week, Sol was over here playing it and we got it to oscillate into Sols i60 amp, making a whistling sound when cable was plugged in.
When I assembled it all into the new box for Shane's g2g, I cut the traces and stuck it into my system while I went to shower for the meet. I took a quick listen and it sure sounded more open to me. If I had not cut the traces DAC "A" would have sounded like shit compared to Sol's DAC "B." In the end I was absolutely thrilled to hear it come to life as it has, in comparison to the still reigning reference, Oracle DAC1000.
There is a whole thread exploding on diyaudio about what does Buff32 sound like. Many biased bullshit opinions about opamps, blablabla, and some ideas on how to modify the Twisted pear IVY output stage with different opamps and other schemes. I can't help think that these people dissing the DAC have never heard it and counting angles in a pinhead, or they have nothing better to do than create unnecessary work for themselves. I would love to hear this DAC play with a great tube output stage, but that's an expensive proposition so may not happen anytime soon.
It will also be interesting to take my stock DAC board and hear it compared to the modded board with the different power supplies. To see the effects Sol's power supply mods had compared to stock PS, and the output mods compared to stock with same PS.
Rob echoed the same advice everyone gives me, hurryup and finish the room treatments and your system will come alive. Iappreciate the advice Rob. It's coming along slowly. I might like to revisit the Usher crossovers again with Rick Craig too. So impressed with what he's done with Piegas. But they have never sounded better with the MR and AR amps. Sitll looking forward to hearing the Butler on them for the first time in my house. I did hear the Butlers with my old Legacys but I couldn't make it gel.
I liked the openness and clarity of both LFD amps. The biggun had a lot of balls and powered the 40.1 Harbeths effortlessly. It had clear and silky highs, no problems with extension or refinement in the high, probably best highs I've ever heard in a SS amp, but they are just to direct and loud, even though Iknow that is flat EQ. I prefer the calmer treble from tubes. Stick in a Jensen cap on the input and I would probably be very happy with either LFD. I though tthey sounded identical in the treble. The bass were different on the different sized speakers.
I remembered the calm civilized reserved sound of C7 that I loved so much when I heard them at RMAF07. The LFD Zero emphasized the controlled reserved demeanor. I think a snappy 100W AB tube amp in front of the C7s would be ideal, so put some zip into its stride. One of the great things about Harbeth is how well they integrate into any room, even those with mediocre acoutics. I wonder if the highly damped HT room upstairs was ideal for them. It did allow hyper clear details and max audiophile performance, but relaxed inspired music communication was not as easy, I think they need a looser amp and a looser room to fully show their great value. But Shane likes the controlled low distortion extended audiophile sound, so it is setup perfectly for his enjoyment.
The little speakers did sound balanced and a little more exciting then the C7s but the scale is too small to stand alone, too small for the high price. But the performance is there in the small speaker category. They reminded me of the sound of my first audio systems using Rad Shack $50 aluminum cabinet mini speakers in terms of range, but a lot more refined, of course.
The food was great. Thanks to all the chefs. Steve's oatmeal cookies, Vera's cakes were highlights. Shane, did you enjoy the summer vegetable saute I made just for you? I put extra broccoli in there just for you.
7pm and I feel the need to go to sleep now....
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Rob just left my place on his way to Shane's.. he said it was going to be a quick stop.. hahahaha
Looking forward to making a trip up to see him sometime later this year.
I wish I could elaborate more on the sound of the systems we heard but I just wasn't seriously listening last night... I was more about emotion and impression. My overall/summarized feeling was that the Harbeth's aren't really my taste but they're very good speakers. They have a comfortable sound and do a lot right but I never clicked with them. Maybe they're dry and I like wet.. I don't know. I enjoyed hearing them. I did like the upstairs system better than downstairs.. very cozy and a good nearfield setup. I was more comfortable listening there and could've stayed a long time in that sweet spot. :)
-C
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Shane, the G2G was great! I was the last to arrive after 9:00 with my friend Gene. Always great to see some familiar faces who enjoy listening to music and meet new faces. The last time I was there I heard the Harbeths with a smaller underpowered amp and was not impressed. This time, the Harbeths were very impressive. I took note of the vocals and the piano notes especially.
The DAC comparisons was just as impressive with difference in prices being 10x less than the Oracle. I could hear a difference with Oracle sounding better on some music but not by much in my opinion. That says a lot for the other two DACS.
Glad to hear Carl made it home down the street. He was making such incredible twisting moves on the floor, level matching the DACs, I figured he would be in rehab today.
Rich, I tried to get over to compare the RM-9 and the RM-200 but just could not make it. I really wanted to hear the two amps side by side with the KT88 in the RM-9. Maybe another time.
Shane are you out of the dog house tonight? Man, the things some guys do for their friends.
Henry
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Ditto what others have said about the evening- A big thanks to Shane and Melissa for hosting the event. It was great to hear two awesome setups in a home. It was great meeting most of your group.
First time hearing the Harbeths, they do music justice on most recordings. Rock was OK, everything else i found to be excellent. Loved hearing the DAC comparisons. Let's just say that I saved about $5k on my trip to NC, mostly due to the auditioning the DAC's side by side. Could have come home with the wonderful DAC1000, but was more impressed with how close the Buffalo DIY DAC performed in comparison for a fraction of the cost.
Got a chance to see/ hear Carls video rig in his kick @ss room, minus his top dog Piegas, but I loved seeing the first part of Blackhawk Down. Fantastic video. Even got some complementary popcorn and peanut M&m's for my 5hr drive home ( starting at 7pm. )
Rich's room will be incredible when he finishes it. I was blown away with seeing the beginnings to his false wall room treatment. The way he's fitting these panels around the trim molding and the way they will fold away from sight should have very high WAF factor. Most of the comparisons Rich and I did on Sunday will need to be done again after he finishes the wall. He really should STOP buying more gear until it's finished. The sound from his current system will go to new heights with the panels in place. Man.... the stack of boards and OC703 in his garage is HUGE, getting the time to complete it will be the tricky part... :) I hope to have my special room treatments done before Rich does. I'm building 2 4'x4' panels to put at the point of 1st reflections. It will replace a realtraps 2'x4' microtrap. I'm hoping to increase my listening area and give it a little more life, instead of the standalone bass trap ( realtraps is just a thin bass trap w/ no diffusion characteristics)
With our amp comparisons, both ARC and MR amp sounded very good. I was surprised to hear my amp sound so nice with ~12ga cheapo speaker wire. should I send back all my JPS cables now? kidding....
Rob S.
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The Harbeth Monitor 40.1 is a very interesting speaker to me. Harbeth in general would never be my first recommendation for someone who listens to mostly alternative or rock. While punchy when it has to be, that's not what it was built to do. It's also designed to be listened to at more moderate volumes. This isn't a college dorm speaker to pound out SPLs (which is kind of how I felt a couple times on Saturday given the volume level we were listening at). If you want that aggressive growl and hard hitting punch, buy a pair of Ushers or, in the lower price brackets, get a pair of Era Design loudspeakers. I conveniently carry both brands :) Von Schweikert is also a choice for larger models in the kind of price class that the 40.1s play.
What the Harbeth does better than any other speaker I've owned in quite some time, is be infinitely listenable for extended periods of time. It has a really clean, natural sounding midrange. Vocals and piano are especially wonderful. I've had more marathon listening sessions since I've brought on the line than at any point in the past number of years..... which explains why it has taken as long as it has to get my rooms setup properly :) hehehe Prior to this, I never sat down and listened for even more than 2 hours at a time... I've done that a LOT with the Harbeths... even Melissa has come and listened with me for more than an hour at a time. She NEVER did that with other speakers... although she *really* likes the Era Design 5 speakers for movie watching in the family room.
With small ensemble jazz, female and male vocals, acoustic guitar, piano, etc. it is truly excellent. Yes, it can be a bit polite. But I don't ever get a headache listening to these speakers like I do with many others. To me, classical sounds more real on these or is presented in a way that I find much more enjoyable than I've heard on other speakers. I actually listen to classical with these speakers whereas I avoid it for the most part with other speakers. Don't ask me why.
The Monitor 40.1 is a bit of a chameleon in that while it may sound good with just about anything in front of it, it can change its character quite a bit depending on the electronics in front of it. Never to the point of sounding really bad... but it definitely takes on some of the characteristics of things in front of it. Where the Usher Be-20 is a bit ruthless because of its extreme resolution and it shows every last bit of what the electronics in front of it are doing, the Harbeth gives you a lot of that information, but also finds a way to integrate and enhance the overall presentation....
The 12" bass driver makes the 40.1 a very different animal than all the other Harbeth models... The smaller Harbeths just don't really do deep bass and as such, really aren't geared for rock and roll and hard hitting music. Put a sub on them and it's a bit of a different issue... but again, the design goals for them aren't really to excel in that way. The 40.1s at least give it a good effort. They're less efficient and more amp demanding because of that bass driver. But it has some grunt and can be quite punchy with the right gear. However they really aren't designed to play that kind of music.
I tend to think of Harbeth as destination speakers... while they do a lot of the audiophile things and do most of them exceptionally well, they really are for someone that isn't going to be on a relentless pursuit of the last iota of razored edge detail and super hyped drive and impact. They're the speakers you retire with and just spend your time listening and enjoying. If your music collection consists of nothing but death metal and hard rock, there are other choices that may work better.
The next meet should be a good opportunity to compare the Harbeth with something that has more drive and suits that rock type music... But those speakers couldn't make it in time for this get together.... I also should have subs finished and dialed into the room to use with the smaller Harbeths... so many things, not enough hours in the day to get it all done...
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Another thank-you to Shane for hosting a fun event, and for the amp stands.
Re:Harbeth 40.1: If I mostly listened to vocals, I'd like these a lot. Very smooth, warm and elegant mids with lifelike presence. They were reasonably quick and had decent midbass punch too. The system sounded a bit too warm and downward-tilted for me on other music though (again, not sure how much was the speaker and how much the room) with a bit of bass overhang and boom. A brief listen to a classical piece showed a really rich violin that really grabbed me--nice. I think my listening preferences are in some ways opposite to Shane's. I can handle some brightness in the highs but am very critical of boomy bass and over-ripe lower mids with longterm listening.
The DAC comparo was really interesting. It was tough with three in the mix. They were closer than they had a right to be. Interestingly, when going from C (Buffalo) to C (Oracle) it was easy for me to notice that I didn't like B as much (washed out) but when going the other way (C-to-B) I didn't notice it nearly as much. I guess I'm able to perceive a downgrade better than an upgrade (at least in this case). Talking with Rich on the way home, he said he noticed it more dramatically the other way around.
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Re:Harbeth 40.1: If I mostly listened to vocals, I'd like these a lot. Very smooth, warm and elegant mids with lifelike presence. They were reasonably quick and had decent midbass punch too. The system sounded a bit too warm and downward-tilted for me on other music though (again, not sure how much was the speaker and how much the room) with a bit of bass overhang and boom. A brief listen to a classical piece showed a really rich violin that really grabbed me--nice. I think my listening preferences are in some ways opposite to Shane's. I can handle some brightness in the highs but am very critical of boomy bass and over-ripe lower mids with longterm listening.
most of it was the room... which I am going to fix... unfortunately, I didn't build the raw bass trap frames and stuff them... I just covered them in the fabric... the guy that did it for me, as thankful as I was for the help when I wasn't around, built them wrong and not to the dimensions I gave him necessary to get deep bass under control. Plus the suspended floor is just awful in that room... some serious cross bracing and cement support structures are going in the crawl space under that room to tighten things up... That is one of the last projects that should happen within the next couple months now that the cooler weather is just starting to settle in. With as much treatment as was put in for all other frequencies, it really makes the bottom end issues stand out more than they would.... when there was no treatment up, you couldn't even focus enough to hear the bass issues because of all the other mess that was happening....
The speakers themselves do have a bit of that boom/flab because of the cabinet construction. They can be a bit juicy down there... but most of it definitely is the room. If I take them over to Carl's place on the concrete slab and walls behind his decoupled walls, I think it would sound very different.....
Come to think of it, that's a great idea for a get together as it's just down the street and easy to transport them that short distance... Carl? :)
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Nice to see that Rob made it down to NC.... :beer:
Sounds like a good time had by all.... 8)
So....did anyone take any photo's ? Thanks..... :D
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I was kinda wondering the same thing.
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Steve took some photos, including a series of the obligatory shot of my derriere... it's becoming a get together tradition to get a shot of me leaning over an equipment rack trying to hook up cables....
I'm sure he'll post one or two at some point....
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I'm sure he'll post one or two at some point....
........................... 8) :beer: