Author Topic: Monopole Speaker Room Location  (Read 4925 times)

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6982
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Monopole Speaker Room Location
« on: January 01, 2020, 11:02:21 AM »
  Some say { Linkwitz Riely } that a monopole speaker should be placed either within one mtr from front wall OR more than 2.2 mtrs. Any thoughts as to why or a different opinion ?


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline _Scotty_

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • “Sic transit gloria mundi”
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2020, 07:18:41 AM »
The answer can be found  at Linkwitz Labs in section D of room acoustics. He goes into how loudspeaker location in the room affects the frequency response including the math. See link below.
https://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm
Scotty

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6982
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2020, 07:51:53 AM »
  Thanks old friend. Hope all is well.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2020, 09:32:17 AM »
The answer can be found  at Linkwitz Labs in section D of room acoustics. He goes into how loudspeaker location in the room affects the frequency response including the math. See link below.
https://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm
Scotty

Great site. Thank you  :thumb:
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline S Clark

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1330
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2020, 10:39:13 AM »
Perhaps the absolute worst sounding room I ever heard at a RMAF was a Linkwitz room.  The guy may have been an industry icon, but he was certainly careless with his set up in Denver several years back. 
Speaker-GR Research LS9-XStatik-AltecFlamenco
Amp-Moscode,Dodd,Folsom
Pre-Dodd
Turntable-Vyger,Victor,TechnicSP10MK2
Phonopre-Hagermann,Jolida,GSlee   
Cable-AudioSensibility Wywires TWL
Cartridge-Dynavector,Sumiko
Tonearm-PioneerP3,Jelco
Rythmic sub

Offline dBe

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2020, 10:48:58 AM »
Perhaps the absolute worst sounding room I ever heard at a RMAF was a Linkwitz room.  The guy may have been an industry icon, but he was certainly careless with his set up in Denver several years back.
I don’t think it was just that room, Scott.  There is a guy IN Albuquerque with the full blown Linkwitz Orion setup and it always sounds broken...

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2020, 12:35:45 PM »
Good to know those contrarian opinions. What would be a better site for me to read on room acoustics?
Nick
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Barry (NJ)

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1712
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2020, 01:49:20 PM »
I think different speakers, will need different placement in different rooms. What are the modes in the room, what are the frequency peaks/valleys in the speakers output(?) How about dispersion and room reflection(?)
Happiness is when your system overcomes your nervosa ;) 
So much media, so little time... My Media Room...

Offline S Clark

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1330
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2020, 01:58:14 PM »
I think different speakers, will need different placement in different rooms. What are the modes in the room, what are the frequency peaks/valleys in the speakers output(?) How about dispersion and room reflection(?)
That's a big +1.   There are some general principles to use as guide lines, but I suspect that trial and error is still what works.  Dave knows this topic much, much better than me.   Dave??
Speaker-GR Research LS9-XStatik-AltecFlamenco
Amp-Moscode,Dodd,Folsom
Pre-Dodd
Turntable-Vyger,Victor,TechnicSP10MK2
Phonopre-Hagermann,Jolida,GSlee   
Cable-AudioSensibility Wywires TWL
Cartridge-Dynavector,Sumiko
Tonearm-PioneerP3,Jelco
Rythmic sub

Offline dBe

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2020, 02:37:22 PM »
I think different speakers, will need different placement in different rooms. What are the modes in the room, what are the frequency peaks/valleys in the speakers output(?) How about dispersion and room reflection(?)
That's a big +1.   There are some general principles to use as guide lines, but I suspect that trial and error is still what works.  Dave knows this topic much, much better than me.   Dave??
Flying today... getting on the plane in 5 minutes...

More tomorrow  8)

Offline _Scotty_

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • “Sic transit gloria mundi”
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2020, 06:50:42 PM »
Room acoustics is basically physics and math. Just because a Linkwitz speaker system combined with his equipment choices sounds bad doesn't mean that the math is wrong. It's never that simple. The Gik Acoustics website also has some good content. If the REW measurement system is properly used, you should be able to get the best compromise in frequency extension VS frequency flatness at a single listening position.
 Which is usually the best that you can do, unless multiple time delayed subwoofers are used to optimize the bass extension throughout the room. Obviously response variations throughout rest of the frequency range due to room acoustics will have to be treated and possibly EQed. Reverberation time improvements will also come along for the ride if effective room treatment is done.

 However, I am not one of those people who believe that room treatment will cure the effects of a system built around crap electronics and poorly designed loudspeakers.
Scotty
Those who respectfully disagree with this opinion can still talk to the hand. 🖐️😔

« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 06:52:59 PM by _Scotty_ »

Offline dBe

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2020, 02:46:19 PM »

However, I am not one of those people who believe that room treatment will cure the effects of a system built around crap electronics and poorly designed loudspeakers.
Scotty
Those who respectfully disagree with this opinion can still talk to the hand. 🖐️😔
+1 : me too. All room effective room treatment will do s expose crappy gear faster than a normal room  environment.  Crap sounds crappier...

With an optimized to the owner system, room treatment is the last and most important interconnect in a typical system. It doesn't take a lot of work to make many rooms MUCH better acoustically and conversely there are rooms that will NEVER sound as good as a room with better dimensions and/or configuration.  Like Scotty said:  It's all physics and math.  To top this, the physocs and math are very simple and there are many valid room analysis software programs available as well as some good "Do this, don't do that" sources all over the internet.   The Linkwitz link provided earlier is great.  Here are a few other resources for many things audio:

George Cardas' site :http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php

http://www.mh-audio.nl/Acoustic.html

https://users.aalto.fi/~ktlokki/Publs/mst_laukkanen.pdf   -   An interesting dissertation on acoustics with many pearls of wisdom for those than can slog through trough all of those words!

Bottom line is that the speakers sound the best in their unique position in your unique room.  There are rules of thumb, but those are often amendable for the speaker/room combo. 

Greg Rae sells diffusers that I designed back in 1992.  They have many imitators and high priced alternatives.  Don't buy from Greg?  Buy from GIK...  (great sales job, huh  :( )  Bottom line is that a few intelligently placed absorber/diffusers/room redirection devices can turn a so-so room into a very good listening environment

Offline AJ Soundfield

  • Seeking Help
  • **
  • Posts: 80
    • Soundfield Audio
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2020, 09:25:42 AM »
  Some say { Linkwitz Riely } that a monopole speaker should be placed either within one mtr from front wall OR more than 2.2 mtrs. Any thoughts as to why or a different opinion ?

charles
Charles, it's just Linkwitz (RIP), Riley was the other half of his famous XO filter. There is far too much variability in rooms (dimensionally and structurally), (monopole) loudspeakers and personal taste for there to be any "rule" for placement. There is an awful lot of technically illiterate nonsense out there stating otherwise.
Any sort of placement will depend upon all 3 factors I mentioned. That said, it's not unreasonable, if allowed, to start say 1m of the front wall with a typical box non-corner speaker and adjust from there as needed.

cheers,

AJ
Loudspeaker Manufacturer

Offline HAL

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1270
  • Audio Mad Scientist
    • Hollis Audio Labs
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2020, 11:27:24 AM »
I have used CARA2.2 Plus for many years to get good ideas of where to start with speaker placement.  It has worked well for me.

You can do a simple model or complex model of the room and speakers to have it do an optimization for placement. 

It allows stereo and multi-channel systems to be built.

http://www.rhintek.com/cara/cara21desc.php

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6982
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: Monopole Speaker Room Location
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2020, 11:49:42 AM »
  Thanks men. To be honest I was looking for a valid point for of placing or not placing monopole less than one mtr from front wall or over 2 mtr to avoid moving my heavy speakers on spikes. PIA.
   I will just have to move them to find out. Thanks for all the responses.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.