Author Topic: May Meeting  (Read 5384 times)

Offline James Edward

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May Meeting
« on: May 31, 2014, 04:35:38 AM »
Thanks Bill for hosting. And thanks for the blind equipment comparisons too- I would not have correctly predicted my preferences from behind the towel...
You have not rested on your laurels, and I think Albert would be happy with the results. The bi-amping seems to have added 10-20 Hz to the bottom end, along with enough dynamics to drown out the kitchen riff-raff.
Thanks again.
Jim
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Offline Lissnr

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Re: May Meeting
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2014, 04:49:38 AM »
Hi Bill, What a fun night...it was certainly "eARducational" huh? Your system has added all the low end you could care to dial in and I know it's nice to have that flexibility. Comparing the Oppo Blu Ray CD/SACD player to the Teac CD/ SACD ( as well as the DAC / Teac comparison too)were interesting tests and it's great to have a system that can be as discerning as yours [certainly]was. Everyone I spoke with were obviously enjoying themselves and all I can say is " Great job!" And thanks again for having us!  Grant
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 04:51:55 AM by Lissnr »

Offline Triode Pete

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Re: May Meeting
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2014, 07:07:02 AM »
Hey Campy --
Great time as usual... Albert would be proud...

Now if you could keep everyone quiet next time... :duh  :rofl:

Thanks again,
Pete
www.TriodeWireLabs.com
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Offline jimbones

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Re: May Meeting
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2014, 09:57:30 AM »
Thanks Bill for inviting us into your home and giving us a chance to listen to the different sources meeting the members once again. Looking forward to the next meeting.
Rogue RP7 Pre, Art Audio Vinyl Reference Phono,CJ Premier 12 Pwr, VPI Classic II/Dynavector 20X2L, Roon Rock, Auralic Vega DAC, Emotiva ERC-3, MIT, TWL, WireWorld, Wywires, Shunyata

Offline StereoNut

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Re: May Meeting
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2014, 02:28:26 PM »
Thanks, everyone!  :thumb:  I just sent out a Syndrome-wide e-mail about our meeting last night.  I am going to (re-) post it here because I think the forum will enable a better back 'n forth with the comments, etc...
----------------------------------------------------
Dear Syndrome

I hope everyone enjoyed themselves last night.  First off, I want to thank Steve Rabitz for lending me his time and expertise in setting up the Bi-Amping set up.  Kudo's also go out to Grant for bring the two sets of HT interconnects and Tom Mazzioti for lending me the 15 foot speaker cables I needed.

Hosting is great, but very hectic, so I didn't really get to spend much time listening.  Yes, I know the gain differences between the TEAC SACD player and my Cambridge CDP via the EE Bolder 1 Minimax DAC made for less than ideal listening comparisons, but I did my best in that regard.  As far as comparing the TEAC vs. the Oppo goes, I really didn't get a chance to listen.

The one thing I want to say is this... I haven't listened to this Bi-Amped set up enough to really have a good grasp on what it sounds like.  Initially, I like the clarity, dynamics and ease that the Daytons bring, but I feel like the system (with my CDP & DAC) sounds a bit too clean (if that's possible?) and lean,  Accurate, but almost "Hi-Fi clinical" to me.  Maybe my QED speaker cables (without Bi-Amping) were giving me a better synergy than the set up now with the MIT "Music Hose" that Tom lent me...???  I don't know, but I feel something's missing!?!

What I need is your feedback. (Human, not electronic feedback that is!) and PLEASE be honest.  One of our club members told me today that he heard a few people say that my system was better last year.  That's fine, but tell me the "whys" of your feeling that way.  Maybe, your feeling that way actually confirms what I feel!?!  I really do want the constructive criticism so I can have more info. to work from.  Yes, I know that the only person I have to satisfy is myself, but it's helpful to get your opinions.

Maybe the Bi-Amping ISN'T the answer?  Maybe, my QED speaker cable IS really special?  I don't know, other than needing to unpack my Daytons and hook everything up and spend some time with it.  I have 45 days to make up my mind before the Daytons become mine permanently!

Comments, PLEASE!!!  Be HONEST!!!

Thanks!
Bill
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 07:10:27 PM by StereoNut »
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

• Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
• N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Amp
• Bolder/EE Minimax DAC
• Cambridge D-500SE CDP
• Von Schweikert 2012 Mod.VR-4 Gen.III speakers
• VPI Prime/Soundsmith MMP3/DV20x2H
• T.W.L

Offline sleepyguy24

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Re: May Meeting
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2014, 07:18:29 PM »
Man. I wish I could make these meetings. One of these years when my kids are older I'll be able to free up and make it.

One thing that came to my mind. What kind of Bi-amping was employed in the set-up during the meeting?

Was it a solid state amp for the bass of both speakers and a tube amp or a different SS amp for the highs? The other Bi-amping I believe is when you use 2 of the same stereo amp and each amp has each of it channels power both the lows and highs of each speaker. I don't remember exactly.

Something like this:



 Was all cabling the same on both the highs and lows or was a silver type speaker wire used for the lows and copper used for the highs?

The reason I ask is that one day when I had all my amps at the time out I decided to have one solid state Class A/B type amp power the lows and another pure Class A solid state amp power the highs of my KEFs. I wasn't able to bypass the speakers internal crossovers though. Speaker cabling was all the same. When I let everything warm up and played music everything just sounded off. Sound stage and imaging seemed out of whack. I then tried DH Labs speaker wire for the lows and some budget OFC speaker wire for the highs and the music was still off but the bass was a tad more boomy.

Everything was connected right but the music didn't sound right no matter the adjustment. I then tried a lower what tube amp for the highs rather than the Class A SS amp and music was still off. I couldn't do the other kind of Bi-Amping as I didn't have 2 of the same amp so I called it a night.

I wonder if Bill's system encountered the same issue I had but on a bigger scale because of the gear in his system. My system was with older stuff and budget cabling.

Offline StereoNut

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Re: May Meeting
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2014, 07:14:28 PM »
Dean

Sorry you couldn't make it to the meeting Friday night.  The bi-amping was set up with my Moscode 600 Hybrid (tubes front end/Moscodes on the back end) powering (300 WPC into 8 ohms) my (top) mid/tweet cabinets with old MIT "Music Hose" cable and two Dayton monoblock subwoofer amps (900 WPC into 4 ohms) powering my (bottom) woofer cabinets with "nothing special" Monster cable home-brew speaker wires.

Pre-amp was my battery powered 12B4A tubed Dodd.

I hope this helps answer your question.

Bill
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 07:16:59 PM by StereoNut »
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

• Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
• N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Amp
• Bolder/EE Minimax DAC
• Cambridge D-500SE CDP
• Von Schweikert 2012 Mod.VR-4 Gen.III speakers
• VPI Prime/Soundsmith MMP3/DV20x2H
• T.W.L

Offline sleepyguy24

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Re: May Meeting
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2014, 08:04:08 PM »
Evening Bill

Thanks for taking the time out to clarify on the gear. Man when I listened to your system briefly it sounded awesome. Nothing broke there. I guess the urge to tweak is hard to deny. I've been there. ah who am I kidding I'm still there.

Anyway I think what you and I both did was Passive Horizontal Bi-Amping since we were using the existing crossover network in our speakers but had different amps running the highs and lows. From what I've been told bi-amping is effective when you use external crossovers rather than the crossovers in your speakers. Never wanted to go that far with it. Maybe others can speak on that.

IMO I think the issue could lie with the Dayton amps. I've used the Dayton Tri-Path integrated and it was noisy. Even with no signal playing I could hear all sorts of noise from my speakers when the Dayton was powered on. When music was playing I was just sitting there with a :? face. Why the Daytons if I may ask. If the funds allow maybe you should get another Moscode 600 Hybrid and have each one power each channel. That would be nuts.

One of these evenings I should bring over my Red Dragon M1000s to power the lows of your speakers. They aren't that expensive and not too old but still in the budget range. One thing I found was that with these amps in place I got a solid improvement in bass vs the Jolida I had.

Talk to you later.

Offline BobM

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Re: May Meeting
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2014, 05:34:33 AM »
A good time as always Campy. I was probably more socializing than listening but my impressions were Teac over Oppo, and didn't have a good seat for the Teac/EE compare so I heard no difference between them.

Bob
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Offline Emil

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Re: May Meeting
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2014, 06:25:08 AM »
Comments, PLEASE!!!  Be HONEST!!!

Thanks!
Bill


Sure!

You're ugly and so is your cat.

Seriously :lol:
The deserts were delicious!

Like Bob said, its the socializing that I enjoy. Hard to do serious comparisons with twenty something people in the house.


"Today I didn't even have to use my A.K.
I got to say it was a good day"
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: May Meeting
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2014, 07:45:51 AM »
Dean: Thanks. I will have to evaluate things again in a more controlled (read: sane) environment!  I chose the Daytons on a recommendation, because they do have a certain amount of adjustments that can be dialed in.

Bob: Glad you had a good time. I really couldn't hear things properly either because I was standing by the pre-amp to switch things back 'n forth... or because someone was bellowing for a spatula for the pie and I was in the kitchen playing host! :rofl:

Emil: Thanks for being honest, but my 4-legged Grand-daughter is highly insulted!  Glad you enjoyed dessert.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The mistake I made (although I had no choice because my QED speaker cables weren't long enough to reach my top cabinet binding posts) was to add more than one thing into the equation at once.  What I need to do now is put my system back to the way it was and get a baseline back in my head (ears) to start over with.  Then, change ONE thing at a time. 

Ahhhh, the joys of Nervosa! :duh

SN
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

• Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
• N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Amp
• Bolder/EE Minimax DAC
• Cambridge D-500SE CDP
• Von Schweikert 2012 Mod.VR-4 Gen.III speakers
• VPI Prime/Soundsmith MMP3/DV20x2H
• T.W.L

Offline StereoNut

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Re: May Meeting
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2014, 05:49:11 AM »
BTW - A long overdue THANKS to Russ for helping cleanup!  :thumb:
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

• Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
• N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Amp
• Bolder/EE Minimax DAC
• Cambridge D-500SE CDP
• Von Schweikert 2012 Mod.VR-4 Gen.III speakers
• VPI Prime/Soundsmith MMP3/DV20x2H
• T.W.L