Author Topic: Re June GTG with Bryston  (Read 36564 times)

lonewolfny42

  • Guest
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2011, 07:48:45 AM »
Quote
We will need stands as well....

I'll bring mine.... :thumb:


Offline bhobba

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2011, 04:40:51 PM »
Guys the theme of the meeting is an ALL Bryston system. From DAC  to Amp plus cabling. The concept of a single Manf. system intrigues us. The carver Amazing speakers being used are a great match for the Bryston gear.  A tubed amp is welcome to demo the speakers. What is the sensitivity of the ML-1 ? We can work something out. We will need stands as well.

ML1's are 86db but are a very easy load.  Anything from 15W up will be fine.  I run a 15W Leben on mine here at home and it is more than enough.  I have tried an 8W Tripath on them and that was OK on most material but on something really dynamic it had problems.  I sent some cables to Chris as well - Ribbonteck interconnects and speaker cables:
http://www.lenehanaudio.com.au/cables.php

Great if you can give them a run as well.  They have been tried against all sorts of stuff including some insanely priced cables costing $10k - it was no contest.  Their maker Mike Lenehan never tires of demoing them and the difference they make.

Thanks
Bill

Offline goldlizsts

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 558
  • Let Music Pass!
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2011, 05:11:57 PM »
Guys the theme of the meeting is an ALL Bryston system. From DAC  to Amp plus cabling. The concept of a single Manf. system intrigues us. The carver Amazing speakers being used are a great match for the Bryston gear.  A tubed amp is welcome to demo the speakers. What is the sensitivity of the ML-1 ? We can work something out. We will need stands as well.

ML1's are 86db but are a very easy load.  Anything from 15W up will be fine.  I run a 15W Leben on mine here at home and it is more than enough.  I have tried an 8W Tripath on them and that was OK on most material but on something really dynamic it had problems.  I sent some cables to Chris as well - Ribbonteck interconnects and speaker cables:
http://www.lenehanaudio.com.au/cables.php

Great if you can give them a run as well.  They have been tried against all sorts of stuff including some insanely priced cables costing $10k - it was no contest.  Their maker Mike Lenehan never tires of demoing them and the difference they make.

Thanks
Bill

15W enough to drive an 86db box?  Is it too close to call?

lonewolfny42

  • Guest
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2011, 05:39:01 PM »
ML1's do better with more power... :thumb:

Offline bhobba

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2011, 07:40:58 PM »
15W enough to drive an 86db box?  Is it too close to call?

Now we are getting into the crux of many of the discussions Chris and I have had over the years.  It really depends on your listening habits and volume.  I am listening to some Kate Ceberano with that combo right now (just switched to Peggy Lee while penning this) - if I took it any louder the neighbors would probably complain.  However I had someone over to check out my Leben to see if its the amp he should buy.  He bought over some highly dynamic and layered stuff - almost grunge music - and we were both shocked how well it played it even to really loud levels - but he could detect a 'collapsing' of the music that since I don't listen to that stuff I couldn't detect.  He ended up getting Xindak SS amps but listened to a lot of valve stuff and thought the Leben was the best.  Same here - until I head the Trafomatic SET I recently got - afraid the Leben has met its match.  

The upshot of the discussions I had with Chris is all speakers respond to better and more watts - its just that some people, like me, due to the music they listen to and the levels they listen at, can get away with less.  However those ML1's open up like you wouldn't believe when fed with more power - the more the better.  But that does come at a cost.  My Leben cost $3K and the reference system down at Lenehan Audio uses Mac 501's which do at least 1.2kw on peaks.  My Leben was bought through Lenehan Audio who are a dealer.  Anyway when it arrived we did a comparison with the Mac's which cost $20K.  At low to medium levels they were equally transparent - which considering the cost difference is amazing.  The Leben had a slightly more transparent mid-range but the bass grip of the Mac's was astounding.  Overall about equal.  So impressed was Mike with it he asked if he could borrow the Leben for a comparison to a much more expensive Modwright KWA 150 Signature some acquaintances were raving about.  No contest - the Leben blew it away.  The moral here is - speakers respond better to more and better power - but the cost of getting that more power at the same quality level may cause you to wince - $20K for amps - ouch.

Thanks
Bill
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 08:43:31 PM by bhobba »

Offline bhobba

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2011, 08:09:02 PM »
ML1's do better with more power... :thumb:

Abso-friggen-lutely :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

But they also work just fine with lower power.  A guy out our way has tried all sorts of amps on them Krell, Accuphase, ME - all sorts of stuff.  To him its a toss up between the Leben and 300w ME's - he can't decide which is better.  They each do different things.

Thanks
Bill

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 12088
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2011, 08:38:01 PM »
Guys the theme of the meeting is an ALL Bryston system. From DAC  to Amp plus cabling. The concept of a single Manf. system intrigues us. The carver Amazing speakers being used are a great match for the Bryston gear.  A tubed amp is welcome to demo the speakers. What is the sensitivity of the ML-1 ? We can work something out. We will need stands as well.

ML1's are 86db but are a very easy load.  Anything from 15W up will be fine.  I run a 15W Leben on mine here at home and it is more than enough.  I have tried an 8W Tripath on them and that was OK on most material but on something really dynamic it had problems.  I sent some cables to Chris as well - Ribbonteck interconnects and speaker cables:
http://www.lenehanaudio.com.au/cables.php

Great if you can give them a run as well.  They have been tried against all sorts of stuff including some insanely priced cables costing $10k - it was no contest.  Their maker Mike Lenehan never tires of demoing them and the difference they make.

Thanks
Bill

15W enough to drive an 86db box?  Is it too close to call?

I think it would really depend on what you were listening to. String Quartet or small acoustic jazz combo might be OK but I don't think you will be able to cleanly reproduce a full orchestral version of Pictures at an Exhibition with 15W into an 86 db speaker. Like everything else in audio they equipment needs to match not only synergistically with the other components in the system, but also with your listening habits.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline bhobba

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2011, 08:57:49 PM »
I think it would really depend on what you were listening to. String Quartet or small acoustic jazz combo might be OK but I don't think you will be able to cleanly reproduce a full orchestral version of Pictures at an Exhibition with 15W into an 86 db speaker. Like everything else in audio they equipment needs to match not only synergistically with the other components in the system, but also with your listening habits.

Bingo - you hit it in one.  But if you can get away with it, it can save you plenty of dosh.  The guy that tried tons of amps on them and likes the Leben and ME best actually wanted to keep both amps for different types of music.  But finances intervened and he kept the ME.  My 8W Trafomatic SET actually bested the Mac 501's on the 89db bigger brothers to the ML1's, the ML3's, on the type of music I listen to - but if you throw something really dynamic at it - well it will have problems.  That's why I will be getting an amp that will do 100W on peaks to complement it.

Thanks
Bill
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 09:27:31 PM by bhobba »

Offline rollo

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6957
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2011, 07:04:40 AM »
  Are you ready to rumble ? Bring em on.  :-P  The Bryston 28Bs should give them a ride.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

Offline goldlizsts

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 558
  • Let Music Pass!
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2011, 07:21:21 AM »
Guys the theme of the meeting is an ALL Bryston system. From DAC  to Amp plus cabling. The concept of a single Manf. system intrigues us. The carver Amazing speakers being used are a great match for the Bryston gear.  A tubed amp is welcome to demo the speakers. What is the sensitivity of the ML-1 ? We can work something out. We will need stands as well.

ML1's are 86db but are a very easy load.  Anything from 15W up will be fine.  I run a 15W Leben on mine here at home and it is more than enough.  I have tried an 8W Tripath on them and that was OK on most material but on something really dynamic it had problems.  I sent some cables to Chris as well - Ribbonteck interconnects and speaker cables:
http://www.lenehanaudio.com.au/cables.php

Great if you can give them a run as well.  They have been tried against all sorts of stuff including some insanely priced cables costing $10k - it was no contest.  Their maker Mike Lenehan never tires of demoing them and the difference they make.

Thanks
Bill

15W enough to drive an 86db box?  Is it too close to call?

I think it would really depend on what you were listening to. String Quartet or small acoustic jazz combo might be OK but I don't think you will be able to cleanly reproduce a full orchestral version of Pictures at an Exhibition with 15W into an 86 db speaker. Like everything else in audio they equipment needs to match not only synergistically with the other components in the system, but also with your listening habits.


Of course.  But... how often we run into someone who listens all his/her life to chamber music, trios, quartets, acoustic guitars?  There's gotta be a time when some recording passages require more sustaining power.......  Most people here are much more experienced than I am, so we should better close the argument.  To each his own! :thumb:

Offline tmazz

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 12088
  • Just basking in the glow of my tubes.....
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2011, 04:28:55 PM »
Of course.  But... how often we run into someone who listens all his/her life to chamber music, trios, quartets, acoustic guitars?  There's gotta be a time when some recording passages require more sustaining power.......  Most people here are much more experienced than I am, so we should better close the argument.  To each his own! :thumb:

Shek here is where we run into the rules of compromise. Sure some music will sound better with more power behind it. But more power costs more money, so the question becomes, what do I listen to most and is it worth the extra bucks to have power in reserve that I may only use a certain percentage of the time (and that percentage is of course driven by the mix of what types of music you listen to.)  But depending on what type of amp you are using more power may not be an option (for example if you are using a 15w SET amp you are most likely pretty much at the end of that road. If you want for example 60 -100 watts of tube power you are pretty much limited to push-pull designs and you will have to give up some of the sound characteristics of SETs to get the sound characteristics that come with high power. Some may even decide to switch technologies to a solid state or hybrid design that can provide higher wattage at c lower price point than a comparable amount of tube power. You can never have it all, so it all comes down to what set of compromises fits best with your tastes and your listening habits. I don't think it id a mater of right or wrong or any kind of arguments. It all boils down to what floats your boat at the time that you are making the purchase (And hopefully for more than six months after you get it home - we've all been down that road, haven't we?  #-o )

Decisions, decisions, decisions.  ](*,)
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline BobM

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3318
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2011, 06:17:42 PM »
But there's definitely the old, buy it used and, if you don't like it, sell it even or at a profit. Lots of good equipment to be had in that @5 year old range that used to be rated class "A" and is now a stone cold bargain and won't depreciate much below the current going price for many more years.

There was a thread on Audiogon about someone looking for a good, used 5 year old speaker in the $20K range. He figured he could get a $30-40K speaker for that and live the dream. The reason he had $20K to spend is because he'd been doing this every year for thje last 15 and reaping a profit at each turnover, buying a deal, giving it a go, and flipping it to someone else who really wanted the piece.

With that kind of time and used equipment psyche he'd been through sets and horns, and solid state and planers, and tubes and cones. Been there and done that was what he said. A real hobbiest, but I couldn't help feeling bad that he never felt satisfied enought to say "I'm done", even with all that good stuff. His answer probably would have been that it's all compromized in one way or another, and it's all amazing in one way or another, so when he gets bored with one thing he just moves to something different.

Sounds a bit like Topround, methinks.  :thumb:

Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry and you'll have to blow your nose.

Offline bhobba

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2011, 08:22:50 PM »
Interesting comments about power.  Over the years I have had chats to many people, Chris and others, about the issue.  Right now I am tending towards having both a big powerful SS amp and a small valve amp like a SET or Push Pull - each has its strengths and weaknesses.  Choose the right one for the music you are listening to.  Getting a powerful amp with the same quality watts as say my Leben or Trafomatic is a very expensive proposition - having two IMHO is a much saner way to approach the issue - and a lot cheaper.

Thanks
Bill

Offline bhobba

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2011, 08:28:04 PM »
Are you ready to rumble ? Bring em on.  :-P  The Bryston 28Bs should give them a ride.

Watch it though.  The ML1's will take ginormous amounts of power but I have been told they don't show signs of distress before giving up the ghost - they simply go bang.  That said I have heard them reach levels like you wouldn't believe - it gives ear bleeding a new meaning.

Mike Lenehan contacted me yesterday and will be bringing my new ML3 References around today.  Will keep you guys updated.  Already my system has taken a quantum leap with a brand new DAC he and his tech Clay have cooked up called the PDX but now powered by a John Kenny Modified Hiface.  Unbelievable is the only words I can use to describe it.  I have a lady that comes around to help me with shopping once a month (I have bad arthritis).  She heard my system a month ago with a WFS DAC2 and was impressed.  Now with the new DAC when she heard simply sat there wide eyed - whats changed - its just so clear.

It won't be soon, but a bit further down the road may be able to get you guys one of these things to check out.  It won't be going to Chris though because he doesn't use computer audio - it will have to be another volunteer.  Although after hearing this thing Chris may change his mind.

Thanks
Bill
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 08:46:52 PM by bhobba »

Offline bhobba

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
Re: Re June GTG with Bryston
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2011, 12:15:04 AM »
Just got my ML3 References delivered.  Holy crap - everything just so much better.  Bass to die for, sound-stage, imaging everything simply top notch - even though is brand new and the Duelunds have not run in yet.  Just listening to Celine Dion Live At Los Vegas and it is utterly entrancing.  Not  like Celine is in your room - but like you are at the event.  Her voice sounds utterly natural and neutral.

Here are a few pictures:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=album;id=5438

The first picture is an early prototype ML3 - the last 3 are my ML3 References.  When I said previously I had not heard the ML3 References before I decided to get them that's not quite true - I did hear the early prototype - but I took it on faith the final version would be better - I was not disappointed.

While Mike was over I mentioned about using the Bryston 28B's.  Perfect match he believes.

Thanks
Bill
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 01:18:33 AM by bhobba »