Power Cable ABX Test

[drews_hifi]

Per Charlie's suggestion, I am posting this link again here. 

Fuel on the fire.

Audiophiles cannot distinguish between stock cords and Nordost Valhalla:

I thought this well done from an experimental design standpoint.  All of the participants were audiophiles, most believed that powercords have a significant impact on sound.  Cords compared were stock vs uber-expensive Nordost Valhalla.  Participants were asked after hearing both, to identify which was playing in a third try.  The author is Jason Victor Serenius, who I believe has written for both Stereophile and TAS.

Results were remarkably close to 50-50 for each participant.

You can pick this study apart for flaws, as JVS does in his commentary, and you can take Charlie R's view that only what you hear and believe is important, which is valid too (you cant win an argument against yourself).

Me?  I have 10 power cords in my system.  4 are aftermarket and the remaining are stock or captive.  Thats too many to worry about.

ihttp://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

[richidoo]

Link:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

Cool article! Thanks for posting it.

I believe the test results, and I'm not surprised.  I would not have chosen Nordost as representative of the finest aftermarket cables. 

I am curious how other brands might fare in the same test. 

I like that they compared one brand throughout the system, to all stock cables.

[mdconnelly]

I saw that post some time ago and am not really surprised.   While I've spent my fair share of time swapping power cords (as has most of us I'm sure), it has always proven difficult (at least to my ears) to consistently hear clear, definitive differences, much less improvements, once you get past the cheap stock cables.   

There was an interesting (but loooong) discussion here:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?747-Power-cords-do-they-really-make-a-difference-other-than-potentially-reduce-noise

about whether/how/if power cords make a difference.  No conclusions but a lot of well reasoned opinion.

IMHO,  power cords can make a difference, but generally far less so than that of ICs and SCs.   I suspect, much of the difference, when discerned, is in large part, a function of how the cable is terminated on each end as well as how (or if) it is shielded.  I also believe (and I think Ken here has said) that cable swapping should be the *last* thing you tackle because any benefits a power cord might provide will likely be highly system dependent.

[rollo]

   My thing is why there so much bashing of comments made by people who hear a difference. A poster states " Wow what a difference that cable made" then someone has to say "its flooby dust or your imagination" SO ? In essence its an insult to that poster. basically a party pooper.
   Now if the poster asked for opinions then all hell breaks loose. I say let them be. Any extreme opinion that is forced down ones throat is simply annoying and rude.
  If a cable thread appears and all are happily posting away someone comes in and starts the flame wars. Why ? Is it I'm right your wrong ? Are they trying to be helpfull in their own way ? All I see are posts that eventually ruin it for the original poster.



charles

[shep]

Which wasn't the case here Charles, unless I missed something. I totally agree though that in order to hear a power cable, you better be sure everything upstream is at it's best. When I had one of Grover's power leads soldered into my cdp, the improvement over the old stock zio cord was obvious. I'm a believer anyway. Hell the damn things look pretty so why not sound better as well?

[richidoo]

All I see are posts that eventually ruin it for the original poster.

That's why we have AudioNervosa!

[Triode Pete]

Got the musicdirect catalog in the mail yesterday! There's "Proof That Power Cords Matter" on page 78 of the catalog by Shunyata Research! They have irrefutable test procedures that prove the measurable differences between power cords!
 
Like The Monkey's, "I'm A Believer" 
 
My $0.02
Pete

[Werd]

This is just a bunch of crap. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

it completely bewilders me how they can do this when all it takes is to go home and see for yourself. But its a 2004 article so going home and listening for yourself my be a new idea ..... 

[richidoo]

Why is it crap Werd? The test shows they did go home and listen for themselves. They found no statistical evidence of an audible difference.  

They should do this with every brand wire they can find until they find some that are audibly better, then publish the two lists:

WORTHY           UNWORTHY
                         Nordost
                          Stock

Now that would be valuable information. If they all suck, let us know. Like that will ever happen. No more wire ads!

[Werd]

No they didn't, they lined themselves up at some guys house with a whole bunch gear unfamiliar to the participants and by the sounds of it the guy who conducted it too. This is no way done at home. Its just a bunch of carnival sideshow antics. CRAP.  I would need time with that system. Scoring good at abx testing isn't about whether the cords are reliably different but how comfortable the subjects in the listening environment are able to make reliable judgments. This can only be done with a great personal knowledge of the gear involved. This is why these tests are such a bunch of crap....  .

[richidoo]

I see what you mean. I agree that it is important to hear something at home to understand the subtle aspects of it before buying something for music listening. But they should be able to hear the difference while using quality equipment if all power wires were changed from computer cords to $3k power cords at the same time. That's a big change to make within a couple minutes. If the Nordost are really worth the very high price, then a difference should be obvious swapping all power cords at once. Remember it is just a difference they are listening for, not whether it is better or how much better. Even if it sounded much worse they would say yes there is a difference. But they said it sounded the same, on average. That doesn't say much for Nordost, or for the transparency of their stereo system to such changes, or both. I think the gear is good enough to reveal such big differences if there were any.

I'm eager to try this myself sometime at a meeting.

[Werd]

Nordost are fine cables. If you really thought it was important to listen at home then you would discard these hack abx tests. Saying that, no the differences may not be obvious in unfriendly listening environment. The tests subjects are not cables but the listening participants. The listening participants are completely challenged by the way these tests are conducted and the result makes these tests nothing more than garbage.....  . Sorry man these tests are joke and the reason why the naysayers seem to kling to the notion of cable unimportance..... 

[richidoo]

If you really thought it was important to listen at home then you would discard these hack abx tests.   

I said I do think it is important to listen at home when system synergy is in question. This test has nothing to do with system synergy. It is a yes or no question. Can you hear any difference or not. Any difference at all for your $12,500 power cord investment. If so, prove it by picking it out over $50 of mouser's finest. Half of these people weren't even audiophiles. Listening at home would be meaningless. They had same accuracy as the audiophiles.

My values require that I be able to easily discern the difference even in an unfamiliar space, gear and music, or else it's just not worth that much money. I have been able to easily discern the differences in unfamiliar scenarios, but I never had a written questionnaire in front of me to prove it. That's why it would be fun to try. Especially in light of such a provocative published report suggesting that experienced audiophiles can't hear the difference no matter how expensive the wires under test. Bullshit.

[_Scotty_]

In any test of components or cables the system resolution will determine whether you can hear a difference or not. I don't expect to be able to hear power-cords make a difference under any and all conditions regardless of their cost. The other problem I had with the test is that all of the components with exception of the power amps were used with the stock generic power cord that were on hand.
  It is just possible that all of those stock power-cords dumbed down the system making it considerably harder to hear any differences when the power-cords used on the power amps were changed. It is also likely  that the differences between two power-cords were not large enough to be heard by people sitting off axis out of the sweet spot.
  I would have used good quality after market power-cords on all equipment including the power amps and then proceeded to do an ABA single blind test by switching the damn expensive Nordost power-cords for the stock power-cords on the Theta Gen. VIII DAC/preamp. I have frequently heard much larger differences between power-cords used at this point in the system than on power-amps.  
  System synergy will impact your value judgment of the desirability of the change, whether you feel it is a positive or a negative. I agree with richidoo on this point, whether you like how the power-cord sounds is immaterial to detecting a difference between one power cord or another.

[richidoo]

Exactly what I thought, until I reread it again, and saw that they replaced every PC all at once. So A is every component using stock PCs, and B is every component with its own $2500 Nordost Valhalla. I agree that the preamp is the most sensitive to power. That's what we used to eval PCs at Carlman's last wire meet, differences between similar performing similar priced wires was easy to hear with only the preamp wire getting swapped. Difference between cheap stuff and "the best" was nite and day. This is sitting in a big leather chair behind other heads, off center, with a system that I am not familiar with and is very different in sound than my own. Now whether I could win the game on paper, I don't know. But I believe I could based on my my memory of my reaction to the swaps at the time. I am pretty sure some of the golden ears in our club could do it. It's all fun, nothing serious.