Reference CD

[Lizard_king]

Hey Gang,

   The time has come to make a CD(s) that we can use as a reference for our meetings. Let's put our thought together so I can make these for us to use.

Paul - President Audio Syndrome

[tmazz]

Paul,

First of all there are some people who might take umberage to using any CD as a reference.......

I would prefer to refer to it a benchmark CD. Analog vs digital arguemen ts aside I think we have all heard the generational loss on digital copies , so it would be hard to call this disc a sonic reference source. But that aside I think having a club benchmark disc would be a valuable tool. Too many times we hear different music or even a different pressing of a favorite recording at somebody else's house and it is hard to know what differences are due to the system vs what differences arecaused by the differences in the input software. By having a discs that we know will be used at meetings we can all get intimately familiar with the recordings, which can only make us more productive listeners and evaluators at our get to gethers.

Why don't we work on this over the next couple of meetings. I think we should have folks bring down and recording they think should be included on the disc and we can play them for the group and come to a consensus as to whether we want to include it.

I also think it is important to duplicate this disc in enough numbers that every on in the club can have an identical copy, burned on the same equipment, using the same software and even the same brand of blanks. This way we can take all the extra variables  out of the equation and everyone can listen to the exact same disc on their own system and get a good benchmark with which to compare the sound of another system.

Let me know what you think.

Tom

[Ecramer]

If i can throw my two cents in or two tunes in this case

Red Right Hand            Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds    The Best of Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
I Got It Bad       Dayna Kurtz    Beautiful Yesterday

These are the two tracks i use the most they are not what you would think of As  a reference track till you sit down and evaluate them they have a lot going for them and you don't hear them every day

ED

[AcidJazz]

Its a members only club Ed. You and I are not members, we paid no dues...we can only sing the blues. 

[tmazz]

Visiting dignitaries are always welcome, whether online or in person

[BobM]

Why don't you just burn a copy of one of the NY Audio Rave demo disks and call it a day? We have about 6-7 of them to date. 

[rollo]

Its a members only club Ed. You and I are not members, we paid no dues...we can only sing the blues. 

Not at all. feel free to offer coments and opinions. Post away.



charles

[rollo]

Why don't you just burn a copy of one of the NY Audio Rave demo disks and call it a day? We have about 6-7 of them to date. 

We have some thanks to Chris. The VMPS show disc as well. However not transferred that well. there aresome killer tracks on those discs.
   However we believe a more varied selection with unamplified music such as chamber and Choral must be included. A bit more straight up Jazz and vocals, cymbals, violin and piano as well. Most of the selections are Hi Fi wonders not music IMO.
  Thanks for the offer. Appreciated. Can you rip them for us to consider. Thanks.


charles
   

[Lizard_king]

The Rave discs I haved heard have generation loss and that means poorer sound quality. When out first master is complete, I can make perfect duplicated without generation loss.

 I feel we should use music and not speeches or presentations.

Paul

Why don't you just burn a copy of one of the NY Audio Rave demo disks and call it a day? We have about 6-7 of them to date. 

[rollo]

I have to say Paul . The Cd's you create from your Porter are the best copies I have heard to date hands down. Now that you guided me to the correct set up with ripping and burning The burnt Cd's are really excellent. actually hard to tell the original from the copy. You are the King.
   How about we take one selection from everyone and create the disc ? This way familiar music will enhance the reference. Or we could make a series one classical , one jazz and one rock/blues.
    Maybe committee's for each genere might be a good idea. Any opinions boys ?


charles

 

[ltr317]

Compiling multiple reference cds may be a bit ambitious to start.  I think one reference is enough for now.  I know that I usually play only 3 or 4 test tracks whenever I go to a show or club meeting, and that gives me a good idea of how the system sounds.  I also know those 3 or 4 tracks intimately, and listen for sonic cues on those tracks whenever I listen.  If it works out, we could expand the selections annually or bi-annually like the NY Audio Rave cds. 

 

[BobM]

From what I remember most of the members of this club fall into the "I only play classical or jazz" vein. If someone puts on a rockin' tune the room empties out. OK, Pink Floyd and Steely Dan are probably exceptions, as are soft female vocals.

So I agree that there may be a need for multiple disks, but probably no need for a rock 'n roll version.

[rollo]

From what I remember most of the members of this club fall into the "I only play classical or jazz" vein. If someone puts on a rockin' tune the room empties out. OK, Pink Floyd and Steely Dan are probably exceptions, as are soft female vocals.

So I agree that there may be a need for multiple disks, but probably no need for a rock 'n roll version.

  You have not been around for a while. Things have changed a bit. As a matter of fact our new President is a rocker. We perfer well recorded  music no matter what it is.
   With most of the senior members not attending many meetings the music venue has changed. Yes I guess we still favor unamplfied music for demos. Call us crazy but unamplfied live  music is still our reference.

charles
 

[AcidJazz]

Call us crazy but unamplfied live  music is still our reference.

Ummm...so how is the music played back? 

[tmazz]

If you are looking to evaluate how a system is performing in terms on timbre, imaging etc., recordings of live unamplified music are the only way to go, not because that type of music is in any way "better" that other types, but simply because it provides a fixed standard to judge from. An oboe needs to sound like an oboe and a cello like cello. And a symphony orchestra has a standard seating plan that can be used to evaluate accuracy of the sonic picture that a system presents. However, in the rock world so much electronic processing is done to the instruments that there is no standard from which we can judge the sound. In a modern studio rock recording the guitar sounds like whatever the artist or producer wanted it so sound like on that particular night. With no fix standard with which to compare the sound, we have a hard time knowing whether the system is doing a good or bad job in reproducing it. This doesn't make rock bad music, just a bad benchmark to do sonic evaluations from.

But while we can't really use rock to evaluate most of individual sonic characteristics of a system (I can be used effectively to listen for dynamics and system speed (slew rate)), I will not go so far as to say it shouldn't be in your kit of evaluation tools. We may not be able to use it to determine if a system sound "right" , but since many of us listen to a significant amount of rock music on our systems  we should at least listen to make sure rock "sounds good" on them (of course "correct" and "good" don't necessarily go hand in hand). One thing that rock music is good for is judging the "goose bump/toe-tapping" effect. A good system should have the ability to draw you into the music and make you forget you are listening to a recording. It is always a good sign when you get so involved that you stop listening to the equipment and start listening to the music.A well done (from both a musical and a technical perspective)piece of rock played back on a good system will do this every time. I don't think rock could or should ever replace unamplified music  as an evaluation benchmark, I think it can easily be used along side it.
A good craftsman's tool box contains many different tools, hammers, saws, screwdrivers wrenches, etc.. And while they can't be used interchangeably, each is very valuable within its give function.