AudioNervosa

Group Therapy => Sharing Experiences => Topic started by: richidoo on April 15, 2008, 12:47:51 PM

Title: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on April 15, 2008, 12:47:51 PM
Bring your leather slippers and pipe, cocker spaniel, and Mozart trio CDs?

WRONG!

They won't blow your hair back but the newest Quads (http://6moons.com/audioreviews/quad2/2905.html) are not your father's ESL-57s. Come see what some famous and respected reviewers are calling the best loudspeaker in the world, and getting cursed out for it! Love it or hate it, there is nothing like a Quad, and this is their finest effort ever. Lots of amps to play with them, and some very special cone speakers to compare - Usher's finest and some Feastrex oddities too.

The Korato KTA-100 amplifier (http://www.bspaudio.com/Korato.htm) will make an encore presentation, sounding much better now after a minor adjustment back to factory specs. Thanks to BSP Audio (http://www.bspaudio.com/) for the extended loan.

Details: http://triangleaudiosociety.com/
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: stereofool on April 15, 2008, 01:40:40 PM
I am THERE  :drool:!!!
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Carlman on April 15, 2008, 02:10:13 PM
 :drool: :yay2: :drool:

I guess I'm in the 'love it' camp.  ha.  I don't/didn't know much about Quad but I know what I heard was excellent.  I hope others can experience them...  They are a real treat and a deal.  I don't think I've heard speakers in the $10,k+ range that warranted their price like the Quads do.

I should be ready to host this summer... work and such have put me a bit behind schedule.

-C
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Bigfish8 on April 15, 2008, 02:38:16 PM
I am really anxious to hear the new Quads and am hopeful of being able to attend.  :drool:  Also, hoping to hear the Korato versus the Mono SEs connected to the Timepieces this coming weekend.  Thanks Bryan and Rich! :D/

Ken
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: TomS on April 15, 2008, 05:04:19 PM
Wish I was in your neck 'o the woods for this.  I could wax poetic about how the "old" Quads had such an impact on me as a young pup, but I won't bore you all.  They are special for sure. 

I already have more speakers than I need, but those big Ushers could have really tripped my trigger.  I liked them a lot at the shows in my brief encounters, but unfortunately the price tag was a bit too painful for my pedestrian budget.

Have fun ya'll!

Tom
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: bpape on April 15, 2008, 07:40:09 PM
Lemme know what you think Ken.  I have a pair of Glass Ceiling Mono Extreme SE's here at my place that did side by side duty with the Korato.  I won't comment further so as not to taint your impressions. 

Bryan
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: ik632 on April 16, 2008, 03:40:36 PM
So long as the boss doesn't have any plans for me I'll come along too. Maybe I'll even bring one of my "old" amps to play with too. What do you want to hear the 7700 with is solid state goodness or the 680 with it's STK module and warmer sound?
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on April 17, 2008, 05:28:15 AM
Nick that would be cool. Bring whichever you like the best. Thanks
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: ik632 on April 17, 2008, 11:20:01 AM
I don't know which one I like the best right now. The 680 has more sparkly highs but I think the 7700 has better punch in the bass section. The 7700 does need to be serviced though (the source selector needs cleaning as it's a little scratch when changing devices). I'll probably just bring the 680.
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: canyoneagle on April 23, 2008, 06:58:13 AM
Sounds like a great evening!  Too bad I'm not in the 'hood, or I'd be there with all of my reference tracks from Air Supply.    :)

Have fun!

Michael
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on April 23, 2008, 08:37:05 AM
We'll play some just for you Michael! Speedwagon, anyone?  :)
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: mdconnelly on April 25, 2008, 02:19:03 PM
Rich, I just received a new PC from John at Black Sand - his new Violet ZII with ATL terminations.  I'm hoping to see how it compares to the Silver Ref.   

I should have it well broken in by May 17th... Worth me bringing it along to your G2G?
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on April 25, 2008, 06:10:00 PM
YES! Awesome!! That will be fun. Thanks Mike
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: ik632 on May 05, 2008, 12:08:18 PM
Ok, it's officially made it onto my calendar.  :D/
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Bill O'Connell on May 05, 2008, 03:03:27 PM
May 17th,  Hummm,  33rd wedding anniversary  8) or hang out with audio buds? :roll:
 If I want to see 34 years I better take a pass. :rofl:
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Bigfish8 on May 05, 2008, 04:22:44 PM
May 17th,  Hummm,  33rd wedding anniversary  8) or hang out with audio buds? :roll:
 If I want to see 34 years I better take a pass. :rofl:

Bill:

Congratulations and I hope you and the wife celebrate a happy anniversary!

Ken
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on May 05, 2008, 06:23:02 PM
Heck, bring her along!! This time of year in Carolina is just about perfection on Earth.

You know......   There is no traditional gift associated with 33rd wedding anniversary. This means you can give Carolyn a new turntable. She will love it! Let her open it at our meet!! haha
(http://www.kuzma.si/slike/stabis/stabi_s2.jpg)

Happy anniversary Bill and Carolyn!!
Rich
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Bill O'Connell on May 05, 2008, 06:58:19 PM
Hi Stereo Nut Boys,
This is Carolyn, sorry I can't let Bill go to N. Carolina, he didn't want to tell you all this but He is doing something musical, We're going to see Jersey Boys. Actually, he was embarrassed to tell you. He really never does plays/musicals unless the musical is a concert which we've been to many in our 33 years of wedded bliss.  :duh
Carolyn
P.S. How far would Huntersville NC be as I have a friend you just moved there from Switzerland. Maybe he can make the next Stereo Nut boy convention. Thank you for putting him up & hopefully the snoring didn't overshadow your speakers.
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on May 05, 2008, 07:50:56 PM
Hi Carolyn, Congratulations you are the first "real live girl" post on AN! You're welcome to come hang out with us anytime. See I told you guys to behave!  :duh

I did have a couple new nail pops to fix in Bill's room after he slept in there, but I still don't believe he snores... naahhhh   My 7yo Henry's snoring drowned him out. haha

I've only lived here for 13 years so have no clue where Huntersville, NC is. But some of these NC lifers will know... Come visit anytime!!
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: stereofool on May 05, 2008, 08:22:26 PM
Huntersville is north of Charlotte...just off of I-77.
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Inscrutable on May 08, 2008, 05:26:20 AM
Which is about 2 hours from most of the Stereo Nut Boys  :) - think we need T-shirts - although there is an asylum in Charlotte as well.
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Inscrutable on May 08, 2008, 05:31:15 AM
Rich et al,
I'm really going to try to make his one. I've been thinking that planars might be my next experiment, and I'd love to hear the Quads.  The Team CBC (http://www.teamcbc.com/) kickoff party is that day, so I may be late and pre-lubricated.  :D
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on May 08, 2008, 06:56:11 AM
Great Tim, hope to see you!
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Carlman on May 08, 2008, 07:54:43 AM
Rich et al,
I'm really going to try to make his one. I've been thinking that planars might be my next experiment, and I'd love to hear the Quads.  The Team CBC (http://www.teamcbc.com/) kickoff party is that day, so I may be late and pre-lubricated.  :D

Maybe I can join you and be the DD?  That way I'm SURE you'll make it.. ha.  Cool concept.
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Black Sand Cable on May 08, 2008, 08:56:34 AM
Maybe he can make the next Stereo Nut boy convention.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Truer words were never spoken!
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Inscrutable on May 08, 2008, 04:27:50 PM
Maybe I can join you and be the DD?  That way I'm SURE you'll make it.. ha.  Cool concept.
Not sure if you mean for the CBC party, or for the MS150, but each applies equally well
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Bigfish8 on May 14, 2008, 07:18:01 PM
I am going to miss seeing you guys and hearing all of the great equipment this weekend.  I will certainly be thinking about the fun I am missing and will look forward to reading your reviews.

Have fun!

Ken
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Inscrutable on May 15, 2008, 02:41:11 PM
Brain cramp ... the CBC ride/party is Sunday and this is Saturday, so I am definitely in.  Rich, if it isn't too much swapping, I would like to bring over my Plinius to see what it can do with these.  No biggie if we don't end up using it.
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on May 15, 2008, 06:21:12 PM
THIS Saturday??? Oh shit!!

No just kidding... I'll be ready.... ( I hope!)

Sorry you can't make it Ken, we'll miss you.

Tim, I would love to hear a Plinius amp. It is direct coupled right?, and Carl's Mac is transformer coupled. I would love to hear the differences on two world class ss amps!!  :drool:

Sol has some new tweeks on his integrated amp, the I-60. BSP AUdio's Korato KTA-100 has had a signal path capacitor upgraded and bias adjusted and sounds really good!!   :drool:

The Quads are fully broken in now  :drool: The Snappers have new tubes almost broken in  :drool: They make a really nice combo with minimax pre out front.   I am putting the finishing touches on a brand new from scratch Feastrex single driver cabinet that is MUCH less resonant than previous attempts. No, it is not wood. I will be playing it and tweaking it tomorrow and Sat morning. We'll see how it sounds for round 3.... [-o<  No room treatment, the Quads don't really need it. Cone speakers may fair less good than last meet.

I'm lookin forward to seeing everyone, and having a great time at the Stereo Nut Boy Quad Festival.
Rich
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Carlman on May 16, 2008, 05:07:28 AM
Cool... Just to add to the dizzying array of geardom... I've asked Brandon to bring his Cary preamp.  I'm very interested in hearing it, especially compared to the Mac and/or Minimax.  Maybe we can get there eariler and do a quickie comparo?  This is mostly a self-serving comparison for me.. ;)

-C
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on May 16, 2008, 06:01:21 AM
... and me too....   My first amp was Cary, and I loved it very much. If it had 200wpc I would still own it.  Wow, the Cary will be great to hear, and knowing Brandon it will be the bomb version....  Very exciting!

I don't know yet about coming early. We have 2 baseball games, a ballet recital, a pro ballet concert, baseball team photographs, babysitting a neighbor's kid, etc.etc... It is that proverbial "Day from Hell" except that it is full of incredibly great things. :)  I think  may be late to my own party!  I'll scope it out and let you know later today. I would like to do it if I can work it out.

I wanted to keep it simple this time, but as you rightfully noted, another dizzying array of gear is upon us. I guess we will have to suffer through it. It will be tough.....    :D

I decided to keep the room oriented as it is now, because it just sounds better, and I don;t have time to move the room and tweak the speakers again. Seating arrangements will be more difficult, but I think we can manage. Quads don't have to be EIGHT feet from the wall, maybe only 6.... haha  I gotta stretch them out good today for a good warm up.

Have a nice day everybody!
Rich
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Inscrutable on May 16, 2008, 05:11:25 PM
I am crushed. Shirl informs me we have friends coming in from out of town and staying over, so I am housebound after about 4 or 5 tomorrow until Sunday morning.  I would still be glad to drop off the Plinius if we can find a time you are home Rich, and maybe if the Quads are still present I can hear them when I pick it up. If not, I will rely on the golden ears report  :)

I love these guys, but their timing really sucks  :(
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: stereofool on May 16, 2008, 05:50:24 PM
SHOOT! We will miss you, Tim!!!
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on May 16, 2008, 07:59:13 PM
Damn, that's too bad... We'll miss you Tim!

I own the Quads, so they will be staying for a while. Come over whenever you can, listen in peace and quiet. I'm here most of the time, so just drop me a line when you have a spare couple hours for a proper audition!  I only have from 8-10:30 tomorrow morning to meet you so it will be tough to do a handoff, but I'm game if you are- I'll be in the garage trying to finish these speakers..... I really look forward to hearing it with Quads too, so lets plan to get together soon.
Rich
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Carlman on May 17, 2008, 06:38:49 AM
Today seems to be the busiest day of the year for some reason.  It's as if everyone I know is doing about 5-10 things today.  I plan to co-host the first part of this event.  I'll get there a little early and help setup and such.  I have to leave a bit early because I have evening-plans.  Looking forward to comparing my preamp to Brandon's... especially on the Quads.. .should be fun. 
See you all later!
-Carl
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: lonewolfny42 on May 17, 2008, 08:36:47 PM
Hey....You Stereo Nut Boys... :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
Don't forget the photo's.....hope it was a fun meeting...(http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/cancan.gif)
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: stereofool on May 17, 2008, 10:02:11 PM
Rich,

Once again...of the many times...thank you for your wonderful hospitality!!!

My eyelids are about to slam shut...I'll try to get a few pics up later today, as well as some thoughts.
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Carlman on May 18, 2008, 06:19:31 AM
I was only there a short time and was very absorbed in comparing the Cary SLP-05? to my Mac C220.  The Cary is incredible... It amazed me how lifelike the vocals were without sacrificing any of the goodies I hear with the Mac.  If I had unlimited money, this would be the pre to get.  I'd also need Bill's EE phono pre to go with it....  Unless the Cary has a phono pre and I missed it..  So, the total cost to upgrade is prohibitive at this time.. but man I want it!
I thoroughly enjoyed listening on the Quads. I can get so sucked into that sound....

Thank you so much for bringing it, Brandon.. and thanks to Rich as always for doing such a great job hosting.  The boigahs were deeevine!  I tried to help but I had to leave a bit early.  It was a treat to see and talk to Rich, Nick, Steve, Chris, Mike, Sol, Brandon, and Shane.  (did I miss anyone?)
I'm counting on Steve for photos..

Can't wait to hear how things went after I left.. :)

-Carl
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: mdconnelly on May 18, 2008, 06:20:28 AM
Thanks, Rich!   Great time, great sounds!    Those Quads sounded great, but I was amazed at how different they sounded when driven by your Snappers vs Carl's Mac 402.  
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Carlman on May 18, 2008, 06:32:50 AM
Thanks, Rich!   Great time, great sounds!    Those Quads sounded great, but I was amazed at how different they sounded when driven by your Snappers vs Carl's Mac 402.  
Really?  Did the Snapper liven them up?  I didn't get to hear... :(
It's OK, I can take it. ;)
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: mdconnelly on May 18, 2008, 07:24:56 AM
Thanks, Rich!   Great time, great sounds!    Those Quads sounded great, but I was amazed at how different they sounded when driven by your Snappers vs Carl's Mac 402.  
Really?  Did the Snapper liven them up?  I didn't get to hear... :(
It's OK, I can take it. ;)
I left shortly after the Snappers were put into play, so I'll let others elaborate in more detail, but I can see why Rich likes the Quads with his Snappers in the near field.   For me, the Mac & Quads were a bit too bright/edgy up close.   The Snappers, while perhaps more rounded, were more musical and engaging.     Since I left while these were still warming up, I'd like to hear what others think as well.
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on May 18, 2008, 08:39:34 AM
Thanks to everybody who came. It is nice to have so many new friends because of this hobby. Thanks for the donations for the chow.

Brandon (Hantra), Sol, and I survived to the end, which went to almost 11! A nice long party, great for me since I don't have to drive home! Thanks for staying late guys, it was fun. The ending system was the Quads with Snappers, Cary SLP-05 (SLP=Sweet Little Preamp, sweet yes, little no), SB3>Altmann DAC with RCA brand digicable, GroverS graphite ICs from DAC to pre, pro audio, balanced, quad shield mic cables from pre to Snappers, JPS SC3 speaker cable, Black Sands power cables, all stock tubes. Equitech provided balanced power sourced from a shared 15A circuit via Black Sands STatement PC, with Silver Ref 5's branching out to the hungry appliances. The Mac C220 used GroverS graphites in and out. The MC402 didn't seem to care whether SE or balanced inputs, but the preamps did, the Cary like Balanced out and the Mac liked SE.

I felt that the Snappers provided more detail in the spatial area. But Shane thought the Mac was tonaly more detailed. It is more in control, more assured, "quieter" peaceful and confident even on raucous music and if you listen for any detail, it is always there. So he may be right. The Snappers seem to breath more life in the the music, are not as "quiet", they are definitely there, but we couldn't identify any specific audiophile characteristic by which they are offending. Brandon suggested the sibilants are a little too "SS'y" sometimes. Those same frequencies are the same by which the Snapper shocks and awes on the high notes of organ music. I wanna understand what you guys mean by "rounded."

I thought the Snappers sounded "louder," and had more bass than the Mac on first comparison, but we didn't switch back to double check. People mentioned to me that they liked the Snappers after we swapped them in after the Mac. I don't think they are the ultimate, but they do tubey things, are pretty powerful and their problems are small considering the price. For the kind of music I like, blue note hard bop, classical choral, organ, symphonic, chamber and solo they give the tonal and spatial details that satisfy me, without too much "excitement" factor to distract. But there is a little bit of excitement factor that is not present in higher caliber amps like AR. I will  have a chance to here another EL34 100W tube amp on the Quads soon, Music Reference RM-9, recently restored and tubed by Roger Mojeski. That should be fun to see if it is as present, but tamer. The RM-200 is around the same price as Snappers but KT88s tubes are more my cup of tea.

We listened to the Korato on the Quads, with the Mac C220 preamp which sounds better than Cary on SE output, still with RCA tubes, groverS graphite ICs, balanced Equitech power, with Black Sands Silver Ref 5. It was improved since last time, a little more body, and quieter, darker background. Playing on the quads with 79dB sensitivity the tone still gets a little shrill on dynamic peaks which demand more power. Playing it on my far easier load and more veiled Legacys I thought  it sounded OK, the improvement was obvious to me and Sol who have been working on it and noting the gradual improvements in before and after comparisons, but still not what we had hoped. I'm sending it back to Bryan so he can see about further investigation by someone intimately familiar with the DNA. It never reached the smooth satisfying powerful sound that I heard it make at RMAF with ACI Sapphire XL, so I can only think that there is still an errant part in there or something. I really look forward to hearing it again in good health at BSP Audio's next show exhibit. Thanks for the loaner Bryan! Sorry it was such a weird ordeal. But you got our honesty and best effort!
EDIT: We finally figured out why it sounded harsh at both meets, goto this post:
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=950.msg9457#msg9457

The Cary was fun. It allowed more detail to come through beyond what I am used to with the minimax. It was more delicate, more dynamic, had deeper bass, although the bass was not as tight and controlled. The overall tone was noticably richer than minimax with my current tube selection which is pretty balanced and clear. We did not do an AB comparison on the minimax and the Cary. Actually we only listened to the minimax at the beginning of the meet before the Cary took over for direct comparison to Carls C220.  Later in the evening Brandon played some really great recordings from his USB drive, pugged into the back of the the ReadyNAS. One, and organ recording, on Dorian record label, was very well recorded, with minimal distortion from huge marble walls typical of organ music. The tonal detail was stunning, the dynamics and power of the low end were intoxicating. With the Cary preamp, the bass region really came alive to allow full appreciation of this recording. It also made me realize, once again, that when you upgrade one part to state of the art quality, you will not get maximum potential until all the other supporting components come up to that level also. That was really obvious with the Ushers, which demanded the best. The Quads are a little more forgiving in some ways, they don't need as much power, but are just as sensitive to EQ and noise isues coming from upstream. The Cary also reminded me of how great the Snappers play in balanced mode. They are a fully balanced tube amp, so the single ended input is conjured. I need to go balanced upstream. The last time the system sounded this good was when Stereofool brought his AR Ref 1, with Grover white balanced ICs, and playing miklorsmith's Altmann DAC. That meet inspired me to upgrade SCs, ICs, PCs and source, which are now done, along with a good preamp. But this little reminder about how great the snappers are in balanced is a great inspiration to kick it up a notch.

Some midrange nasties were noticeable in the room, but the bass was well behaved, for the most part, with no room treatment at all. It would probably be a lot better with.... next time - after I decide where the Quads will go. I am trying them upstairs in a smaller room next.

Sol Samet bought 2 of his amps. The I-30 has been a favorite at the meets. This time a recent cap upgrade was a step backward. His I-60 had new output devices and associated circuit tweeks to allow them. I thought it was a big improvement. It was swapped in right after a blissfully inspiring extended listen to Cary>Snapper and it was not hard to switch at all. Sol had designed an experiment that he tried on Brandon and I. We listened to it for a couple minutes, then Sol snipped a couple of grounding wires in some part of the circuit and we compared. It was a nice improvement. This result confirmed an idea Sol has about something about inductance on the emitter blablablaijustnodpretendingnottofeeldumb. His original prototype of this amp circuit is a blob ratsnext of parts soldered together in midair, with output transistors screwed down to a huge heatsink. Strictly for testing on the bench and crude listening. For the finished I-60, some compromises for layout were needed, one of which lengthened a lead 5 times longer than on the blob prototype. Sol now plans to redo the boards in the amp to shorten this ground wire and make the improvement even better than after the 'snip'  Reading about how important circuit layout is to an amp's sound is academic until you here what it can really do. Thanks Sol!

Thanks to everyone who came and especially to those who lugged over gear.
Rich
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: mdconnelly on May 18, 2008, 09:02:56 AM
Rich, Great writeup!

I agree with your assessment of the Snappers vs the Mac with the Quads.   'Rounded' may not be the right word, but IMO, the detailed and occasional edginess with the Mac was replaced by a more musically engaging presence with the Snappers... maybe that's what you mean by 'breath more life in the music'.    I wish I could have stayed longer to listen to it further.

Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Hantra on May 18, 2008, 11:11:10 AM
Yay!  I finally had a chance to get to another meet at Rich's.  As always Rich is a gracious host, and the food was excellent once again. 

The Quads are nice.  Quad 989's were in one of the top 5 systems I have ever heard, so I was looking forward to hearing the replacement.  I can't say I enjoyed these as much as the other ones, but the other ones were being pushed by $200,000 (late nineties dollars) worth of gear, so it's anyone's guess.

These did do the ultra luxurious midrange thing, which was nice.  To my ears they were slightly compressed at the top.  This comes off as a slight edge, but after living with some speakers that will play 60kHz, I have to think it's a compression thing.  The speakers are getting the info up there, but they aren't able to play it, and it's a bit of a nasty thing.  It didn't offend, but it didn't sound natural either. 

I really like those little Snapper monos, but after seeing the meters on the McIntosh dancing between 40 and 400 constantly, I was scared for the little boogers.   :rofl:  I confess.  I am a power whore.  While there was more tube goodness, and a more forward soundstage with the Manley, they also had a bit of a nasally (stealing Sol's word) presentation.     

This was the first time I have listened to the Cary SLP-05 in the 6 months I've owned it.  It just sits in its box with all my other gear, crying out from neglect.  For the past year, I've been listening to a Sony AV-S500-ES, a Squeezebox, and a pair of Aliante Pininfarina Stile monitors in the living room.  It was great to hear a real system again, and it may even inspire me to threaten my electrician to get my freaking new room wired.   :drool:

I will say I missed the Eighth Nerve treatments, even though I liked the new layout of Rich's listening room.  Overall the Quads were quite an improvement over the Legacy speakers I heard last time at Rich's.  I think he's getting closer to what he's looking for with speakers, but not quite there yet with these things. 

Once again thanks Rich.  It was nice seeing everyone, and maybe one day when I finish my room, we can do it here.   :(
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: stereofool on May 18, 2008, 11:32:27 AM
Here are some pics...

Rich...our illustrious host  :)!
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/stereofool/TAS5172008/P5170449.jpg)

Carl...doing his micro-setup
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/stereofool/TAS5172008/P5170450.jpg)

Mike, Chris, Nick & Rich
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/stereofool/TAS5172008/P5170454.jpg)

Nick, Rich & Brandon
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/stereofool/TAS5172008/P5170455.jpg)

Mike & Sol
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/stereofool/TAS5172008/P5170460.jpg)

The main reason we were there...

The electronics package...or at least some of it
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/stereofool/TAS5172008/P5170438.jpg)

Brandon's Cary SLP-05
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/stereofool/TAS5172008/P5170442.jpg)

(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/stereofool/TAS5172008/P5170447.jpg)

One of the Quads
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/stereofool/TAS5172008/P5170445.jpg)
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on May 18, 2008, 02:31:11 PM
Love those socks Rich.  8)

The Snappers sound louder because (I just learned) they make 31dB gain. Mac's is not published, but typical is 26dB. 

Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: ik632 on May 19, 2008, 12:40:09 PM
I had a good time too. I always have fun listening to stuff that my wife won't let me buy. I really liked getting to hear my old Pioneer push the Quads a little bit. I was able to hear all of the things that I think I can hear out of my little bookshelf speakers.

Maybe some day I'll sell the Bose 201's and get something a little more traditional, but they do fit the bill pretty well the way they are now.
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on May 19, 2008, 06:53:31 PM
We listened to the Korato on the Quads, with the Mac C220 preamp which sounds better than Cary on SE output, still with RCA tubes, groverS graphite ICs, balanced Equitech power, with Black Sands Silver Ref 5. It was improved since last time, a little more body, and quieter, darker background. Playing on the quads with 79dB sensitivity the tone still gets a little shrill on dynamic peaks which demand more power. Playing it on my far easier load and more veiled Legacys I thought  it sounded OK, the improvement was obvious to me and Sol who have been working on it and noting the gradual improvements in before and after comparisons, but still not what we had hoped. I'm sending it back to Bryan so he can see about further investigation by someone intimately familiar with the DNA. It never reached the smooth satisfying powerful sound that I heard it make at RMAF with ACI Sapphire XL, so I can only think that there is still an errant part in there or something. I really look forward to hearing it again in good health at BSP Audio's next show exhibit. Thanks for the loaner Bryan! Sorry it was such a weird ordeal. But you got our honesty and best effort!

Today Bryan asked me to listen to the Korato on different speakers, especially the Ushers where we listened to it during the last meet. Thinking that the inefficient Quads were giving it grief. He is so confident in the Korato that he is unwilling to rest with a negative audition sitting out there. I don't blame him. I have felt awful during this whole ordeal, because it sounds pretty good on my system, then we play it at a meet and it sounds unexpectedly and frustratingly "less good."

So on his request I tried it with Usher Be-20 again, sounds good! Whats up with this? Why does it sound bad at meets and better after the meet? I remembered that we used the McIntosh C220 preamp for both Korato demos, at both meets. I use the EE Minimax in regular listening at home, preferring it to the Mac. We all agreed before the first meet that the Mac was the best choice considering its "fine heritage," made even better with its new NOS RCA tubes. The pre sounded 100% better with the new tubes than with the old Chinese tubes on my Snappers, and everyone felt the most comfortable with it, over the minimax. I have never preferred the Mac, but didn't think it a big deal since the differences between it and my EE Minimax were so slight - ON MY LEGACYS - which are rather 'musically veiled' anyway.   On the Quads and Ushers the Mac preamp has not been played much, the Minimax advantages are more obvious with those hi rez speakers - and so too with the Korato.

Playing Korato with Minimax on Ushers had none of the peaky, harsh and gritty, overly dynamic stabbing peaks that we heard with the C220 at the meets. The Korato with the Minimax were very listenable. It was not perfect though; there is a slight ringing 3rd/4th harmonic overtone, maybe -30dB (I'm estimating based on the sound, but could be wrong) that happens with upper midrange instruments (1kHz) like flute, trumpet, piano using the Minimax. Everything below 1kHz is perfect, beautiful. The ring could be a reactance of the output tube to the Korato input or some other kind of ringing, I don't know if that's even possible? But I do know that the Korato is somewhat sensitive to its preamp. It sounded near perfect with the Korato preamp in front of it at RMAF. I can understand better now how that great TNT Audio review and others are so positive about this little amp when they have a good complimentary preamp in front of it.

The frustrating thing is that we had one of the world's great tube preamps here at the last meet, Hantra's Cary Audio SLP-05, but we didn't use it on the Korato. The equipment stand was jammed full of heavy hot amps with tangled wires, so we just said fuck it, the Mac worked on it last time (flawed reasoning) so we'll use the same preamp again to see if indeed  the amp is better now (more flawed reasoning.) The correct audition would have been to insert the Korato into the system that we had been listening to so we could minimize variables and judge it by itself. Switching to the Mac preamp out of convenience added an extra variable and was a mistake. At least at the previous meet, the Mac served as the main act for the whole meet, and of course it sounded fine with it's brand mate the MC402, so we didn't suspect it as being a problem. We shold have fought for the little Korato harder and tried whatever we had on hand to help it play its best. I was sensitive to complaints that previous meets had too much swapping and not enough music playing, so I was trying to avoid too many pauses for rewiring.

When bigfish8 auditioned it at his house, he used Candella with some nice cushy tubes which the Timpieces enjoy. The Korato sounded good there, and we attributed it to the bias adjustment, but it was really the nice preamp that made the difference. The Korato kept up with the Oddysey Monos pretty well. A slight bit more grain than the Odysseys, but still well within the high end bracket and a pleasure to listen to, at a lower price.

Sorry for the confusion everybody, especially Bryan, Korato fans and customers. We all thought that the Mac pre was the way to go for the Korato audition, so it was just one of those things. I encourage anyone who is interested in the Korato to audition it. Hopefully it will be at RMAF again this year, as part of a well matched system. Hearing it in MS at BSP Audio would be ideal, with the Korato preamp, or any really good quality pre. It is a good amp that deserves a great front end.
Rich
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: bpape on May 20, 2008, 06:54:52 AM
First of all, I'd like to thank all of those who took the time to take a listen and post comments.  I'd especially like to thank Rich for schlepping and coordinating everything and Sol for his time and effort to reset the amp bias and swap the caps.

My intention in asking Rich to take a listen on the Ushers was not to try to wring a good review, but to minimize variables and try to isolate what the potential issue was with the amp.  My assumption was that it was simply a mismatch with the Quads.  I also wanted to make sure that there wasn't something else still physically wrong with the unit.  Since the harshness had only been identified there, in those systems and never mentioned by anyone else who ever listened to it (if anything, the comments were that it was a tad too laid back and not quite enough detail in fact) I wanted to verify what was happening in the same context.

Not being one's 'cup of tea' I can certainly understand.  That's why there are so many different things out there.  Not sounding quite as good as an amp that costs 3-4x as much, I'll take that as a compliment toward value.  I was just wrestling with the 'harshness and peakiness' as that's completely the opposite of the 'sound' of that amp that I've ever heard and anybody else has ever described.  It just didn't make any sense so I had to get to the bottom of it.

The Mac is a great preamp.  It's evidently just one of those things where 2 good pieces of equipment don't work and play well together.  I recently had a similar experience with the MDHT DAC.  We played a basic Oppo player through the MHDT.  Played a straight Meridian CD player through analog outs.  Both sounded pretty good.  Neither was perfect and there was room for improvement. So, we tried the MHDT on the digital outs of the Meridian - no go - both of the other combinations sounded considerably better.  Go figure.

We will most definitely be at RMAF again next year.  I'll also be bringing the Anniversary series Korato amp (180WPC as opposed to 100 WPC and better internal parts) and potentially, a pair of their mono tube amps.  Not sure yet which one but likely the smaller ones - http://www.korato.com/product.php?id=96

We'll have 2 rooms this year with GIK, BSP, ACI, and Audioquest sharing the spaces.  There will be some nice surprises so make sure you stop by.

Again, my thanks and apologies for it not being able to show it's best face. 

Bryan
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: richidoo on May 20, 2008, 01:39:59 PM
I didn't mean to imply that Bryan was asking me to find a way to make it work. All along I have been the one offering to try this, try that because I knew something was screwy. But Bryan has every reason to question a review that says yuk, when you know it can't be that bad. It just didn't make sense, which is why I hung in there to figure it out. I can understand why reviewers are always gun-shy about saying anything bad. If you're wrong your toast, like the recent Boulder amp review in Stereophile. So many variables with system compatibility make mistakes more possible. It wasn't really a mistake - C220 plus Korato KTA-100 is not a combination I would recommend, but both components work very well in other systems, especially within their own brand.
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Bigfish8 on May 21, 2008, 06:46:16 AM
Guys:

Saturday evening I thought about the fun and great gear I was missing hearing at Rich's.  I certainly enjoyed the reviews and pictures.  It sounds like you guys had a great time!

Ken
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: Carlman on May 21, 2008, 07:33:06 AM
It was a nice event, Ken... I wish I could've stayed for the count but I had a 'baby shower' to go to.. ugh.  You were missed.

Did anyone ever try Mike's new Violet power cord?  I doubted there would be time but was hopeful.
-C
Title: Re: Quad-Fest!! G2G Rich's May 17th
Post by: mdconnelly on May 21, 2008, 09:30:34 AM
Ah!  I totally forgot to mention the BS Violet ZII.   Yes, Chris and I spent a bit of time comparing the Violet ZII on the Mac preamp against the Black Sand Silver Ref.    To my ears, I heard slight difference in the bottom end.   Chris felt the top end may have been a bit more extended with the Violet.   But... there was far too little time spent to arrive at any form of opinion beyond the fact that the Violet ZII is yet another damn good PC from John.   

I purchased the Violet to use on the linear PS I'm using on my SB3.   For that, I hear absolutely no difference between it and the Silver Ref.   When I compare the ZII to the Silver Ref on my Tact, they're very close but to my ears, I think the Silver Ref is a bit more defined in the bass.   Then again, I truely doubt I could consistently tell a difference.   And... trying to hear differences in wire just makes my heard hurt  ](*,)