REALLY ??!!

[GT Audio Works]

$165,000 for the top o the line Audio Note AN-E Sogon ??
Please tell me how anyone would actually spend that much on a simple 2 way speaker.
Even if I grew and harvested the trees and laminated my own plywood, Made my own drivers by drawing silver wire , cast the baskets and Alnico magnets, fabricated the cones etc.
I still don't think I could come up with a price tag like that.

[jimbones]

Thats why I design and build my own. It is also why they loose credibility with me. 

[richidoo]

Please tell me how anyone would actually spend that much on a simple 2 way speaker.

They like it and they have the money.
No class warfare on AN.

Even if I grew and harvested the trees and laminated my own plywood, Made my own drivers by drawing silver wire , cast the baskets and Alnico magnets, fabricated the cones etc.
I still don't think I could come up with a price tag like that.

No price judgement on AN.

Almost any other forum would love to bash the rich with you and wallow in the flood of collective jealousy.

But where does the guy with the new Sogons go to talk about them? We want the kind of members that think their music is worth that much. We want rich members to feel good when they visit here.

[GT Audio Works]

Please tell me how anyone would actually spend that much on a simple 2 way speaker.

They like it and they have the money.
No class warfare on AN.

Even if I grew and harvested the trees and laminated my own plywood, Made my own drivers by drawing silver wire , cast the baskets and Alnico magnets, fabricated the cones etc.
I still don't think I could come up with a price tag like that.

No price judgement on AN.

Almost any other forum would love to bash the rich with you and wallow in the flood of collective jealousy.

But where does the guy with the new Sogons go to talk about them? We want the kind of members that think their music is worth that much. We want rich members to feel good when they visit here.

Rich,
 
No class warfare intended here.
And definitely no jealousy...my reaction to meeting someone actually owning a pair would best be summed up by this emoticon....
After getting up off the floor, I would apologize to this individual for my rude outburst, confessing if I held that in another minute I would have exploded !!
After that I would advise said individual the next high end purchase be in something with a better return on his dollar like fine art or classic cars.
Yeah Yeah, I know.. "They like it and they have the money".. but so do wealthy heroin or gambling addicts.
It don't make em right and deserving of some intervention.

I have made some major audio purchase and speaker design boners over the years.
I wish someone had smacked me on the back of the head and proclaimed
                 "What were you thinking dumb shit?!"
 
 I can comprehend a $263,000  price tag on a speaker like the  MBL Extreme. I  would lust after such a system and if I had the scratch I would even consider buying such a beast. Innovative engineering beautifully crafted design, killer sound that can fill the largest room.
But in my opinion this AN-E crosses the line into the absurd.
Its an 8" 2 way box speaker designed by Peter Snell many years ago.
By its very design it will only do so much in terms of performance.
I don't care how many eel farts you stuff in...it just don't add up.
I am not saying it does not sound good and that making it isn't pricey, but time comes when you have to wake up and smell the snake oil.

I understand your zero tolerance policy regarding bashing.
And I agree, its in the best interest of the forum not to criticize what someone reading the post may own.
But like any rule there is always an exception.
The more absurd or unique the situation the more the rule must bend.
Otherwise little Johnny gets expelled from school for breaking the no guns policy, by making a bang bang motion with his hand  

Greg

PS...It's these inflated prices, that give suspect credibility as viewed by outsiders to our industry as a whole.

[Werd]

It has nothing to do with getting ripped off. What you are mad about (me to actually) is the economy.  They are catering to the 1%. That is how it plays out. Things don't make sense like what you are describing. That is the economy we live in built by our governments.

[Hugh]

Let me illustrate a counterpoint on this.

How many times have you (manufacturers/dealers) talked to a potential customer and as soon as they heard your price...they rolled their eyes in disbelief that a HT system would cost ($) that much?

To most people, it shouldn't cost more than a few dollars aka less than $1K for the whole set up.

So basically, beauty (or should I say Cost) is in the eye of the beholder, right!

[_Scotty_]

This kind of thing occurs because of consumer ignorance. People frequently buy things that are an abysmal investment, simply because they don't know any better.
 A Salk Exotica 3 would get you Alnico mid-ranges for less than 1/10th the price and you could go crazy with the crossover components and all it would cost you is a little more money.
 If I had this much money I would arrange to audition a variety of high dollar speaker technologies in my listening space with my equipment to see what I floated my boat.
 As far a our hobby loosing credibility with Joe six-pack due astronomical pricing, in all my years in this hobby which about 40, egad, I have never seen that we have had any to begin with.
 It has always been a process of education to even begin to explain why the sound quality would matter enough to justify a relatively large investment in the money or the time.
 Once you passed the investment required to purchase a mass-fi system consisting of a receiver, speakers, turntable and tape-deck, your actions become incomprehensible to the average person. The High-End has always niche hobby.
 I don't see the all of the manufacturers catering to the well heeled, there is no shortage of products at all points in the spectrum. However, the best technology has always required substantial investment to acquire. To pick one brand, Audio Research. This brand has never been an entry level component, it has always been expensive by my metrics.
Scotty

[richidoo]

Greg, maybe you don't intend it, but you're still doing it. Your attempt to justify the classism of your OP is to continue judging the price and the buyer with your values. Comparing a speaker buyer to a heroin addict is a denegrating personal insult. It's simply not allowed. Go compete for his business, go educate him about loudspeaker value. Just don't launch populist attacks on wealth from AN, please.

I'm letting this thread continue because it is a good learning example. Hopefully everyone will get the jist of the rule and not force me to junk it.

I'd like to know more about why the price is high. What do they say to justify the value?

[richidoo]

It has nothing to do with getting ripped off. What you are mad about (me to actually) is the economy.  They are catering to the 1%. That is how it plays out. Things don't make sense like what you are describing. That is the economy we live in built by our governments.

Werd, please stop the Occupy Wall Street propaganda, OK? It's not allowed here because it violates the class warfare rule and the politics rule. If I can restrain myself, so can you.

I am asking you to change. You must comply. When you type %, please reconsider before you submit. I can't say it any clearer, kinder, or more seriously.

[richidoo]

This kind of thing occurs because of consumer ignorance.

Consumers are not ignorant when it comes to their own money. Especially consumers wiling to spend 150k on speakers. They know the way of the world or they wouldn't be in that situation. 

People frequently buy things that are an abysmal investment, simply because they don't know any better.

No, not frequently. Abysmal investments are extremely rare because we learn from mistakes. People buying 150k speakers are not choosing between that or a house  for their family to live in. They are not making a investment decision, they are just buying a toy, for fun, drop in the bucket!

[GT Audio Works]

Greg, maybe you don't intend it, but you're still doing it. Your attempt to justify the classism of your OP is to continue judging the price and the buyer with your values. Comparing a speaker buyer to a heroin addict is a denegrating personal insult. It's simply not allowed. Go compete for his business, go educate him about loudspeaker value. Just don't launch populist attacks on wealth from AN, please.

I'm letting this thread continue because it is a good learning example. Hopefully everyone will get the jist of the rule and not force me to junk it.

I'd like to know more about why the price is high. What do they say to justify the value?

You still fail to see my point. I am not making this a classicism issue or attacking the wealthy or imparting my values.
These are your words.
Understand, stupid decisions are blind to class and wealth.
And buying a $165,000 speaker that has by its very design a limited level of performance is just dumb by anyone's standards.

You want to know more about the product and what they say to justify its value ?
A good salesman has these skills down pat. Of course the mark has already taken the bait and swallowed the hook.
He is happy...till he realizes, that highly praised and sought after living room jewelry leaves something to be desired.
Even after he realizes he has been taken its doubtful he would say a word, since this would make him look bad among his peers, so he will just keep singing the praises of the kings new clothes.
Go compete for his buisness? Educate him ? C'mon... he buys into the exclusivity of the product, my shitty speakers cant compete in his eyes and no amount of education will wake him up.

My reference to a heroin addict was not an insult to anyone. It was only  an analogy to illustrate both parties have made a poor choice and someday may thank you for pointing it out to them.
Maybe not the best analogy since the speaker buyer is hurting no one including himself so who cares if he wastes his money.

Rich..its your forum, and you do what you like, but if you limit what can be said, we will be talking about the weather ZZzzz...

[Triode Pete]

Greg, maybe you don't intend it, but you're still doing it. Your attempt to justify the classism of your OP is to continue judging the price and the buyer with your values. Comparing a speaker buyer to a heroin addict is a denegrating personal insult. It's simply not allowed. Go compete for his business, go educate him about loudspeaker value. Just don't launch populist attacks on wealth from AN, please.

I'm letting this thread continue because it is a good learning example. Hopefully everyone will get the jist of the rule and not force me to junk it.

I'd like to know more about why the price is high. What do they say to justify the value?

You still fail to see my point. I am not making this a classicism issue or attacking the wealthy or imparting my values.
These are your words.
Understand, stupid decisions are blind to class and wealth.
And buying a $165,000 speaker that has by its very design a limited level of performance is just dumb by anyone's standards.

You want to know more about the product and what they say to justify its value ?
A good salesman has these skills down pat. Of course the mark has already taken the bait and swallowed the hook.
He is happy...till he realizes, that highly praised and sought after living room jewelry leaves something to be desired.
Even after he realizes he has been taken its doubtful he would say a word, since this would make him look bad among his peers, so he will just keep singing the praises of the kings new clothes.
Go compete for his buisness? Educate him ? C'mon... he buys into the exclusivity of the product, my shitty speakers cant compete in his eyes and no amount of education will wake him up.

My reference to a heroin addict was not an insult to anyone. It was only  an analogy to illustrate both parties have made a poor choice and someday may thank you for pointing it out to them.
Maybe not the best analogy since the speaker buyer is hurting no one including himself so who cares if he wastes his money.

Rich..its your forum, and you do what you like, but if you limit what can be said, we will be talking about the weather ZZzzz...

I see Rich's point very clearly & he's right on!... Greg - I don't get it... Have you heard the Audio Note speakers??? I have & they're VERY APPEALING... a perfect speaker for some (perhaps a very few) but still appealing...

"A mere bag of shells" for some... those very few will be enjoying their music... Bottom Line!

My $0.02,
Pete

[topround]

Audio Note has always played its hand to the super rich, Kondo created the mystique and Peter Q marketed it to the hilt.
It never really was about sound it was about being in a club, a very exclusive club.
Peter saw a need and filled it...if you need to spend $165k on a speaker to make you feel fulfilled then Peter was the man to fulfill your dreams.

He needed 30 vintage Mercedes Benzs and a full time mechanic to wash and service them, so he saw a way to make it happen...nothing wrong with that...no poor people were neglected any food or shelter by this purchase, and the person who bought this stuff probably wrote it off his taxes anyway by hiring a very competent accountant.

So all in all it worked out, some wealthy guy got bragging rights to his system, Peter Q got to buy another vintage Mercedes, a accountant got some work, and the poor people...well they just remained poor so all is well!
No harm no foul if you ask me....yeah WE know it doesn't cost anywhere near that to make that speaker but that was probably never the point....no?

[GT Audio Works]

Greg, maybe you don't intend it, but you're still doing it. Your attempt to justify the classism of your OP is to continue judging the price and the buyer with your values. Comparing a speaker buyer to a heroin addict is a denegrating personal insult. It's simply not allowed. Go compete for his business, go educate him about loudspeaker value. Just don't launch populist attacks on wealth from AN, please.

I'm letting this thread continue because it is a good learning example. Hopefully everyone will get the jist of the rule and not force me to junk it.

I'd like to know more about why the price is high. What do they say to justify the value?

You still fail to see my point. I am not making this a classicism issue or attacking the wealthy or imparting my values.
These are your words.
Understand, stupid decisions are blind to class and wealth.
And buying a $165,000 speaker that has by its very design a limited level of performance is just dumb by anyone's standards.

You want to know more about the product and what they say to justify its value ?
A good salesman has these skills down pat. Of course the mark has already taken the bait and swallowed the hook.
He is happy...till he realizes, that highly praised and sought after living room jewelry leaves something to be desired.
Even after he realizes he has been taken its doubtful he would say a word, since this would make him look bad among his peers, so he will just keep singing the praises of the kings new clothes.
Go compete for his buisness? Educate him ? C'mon... he buys into the exclusivity of the product, my shitty speakers cant compete in his eyes and no amount of education will wake him up.

My reference to a heroin addict was not an insult to anyone. It was only  an analogy to illustrate both parties have made a poor choice and someday may thank you for pointing it out to them.
Maybe not the best analogy since the speaker buyer is hurting no one including himself so who cares if he wastes his money.

Rich..its your forum, and you do what you like, but if you limit what can be said, we will be talking about the weather ZZzzz...

I see Rich's point very clearly & he's right on!... Greg - I don't get it... Have you heard the Audio Note speakers??? I have & they're VERY APPEALING... a perfect speaker for some (perhaps a very few) but still appealing...

"A mere bag of shells" for some... those very few will be enjoying their music... Bottom Line!

My $0.02,
Pete

Have you heard this $165k mythical beast ?
I have not, still does not change my opinion on the subject.

I have heard more reasonably priced AN speakers, I am not knocking their fine products that retail in the 5 figures..I get that...
I dont get a $165k variant of the same design. What could possibly be so different in the manufacture of their $20k speaker to justify an asking price of $165k. Did they use solid gold resonance damping in the enclosure ?
I get mega buck speakers that have the cred to play toe to toe with anything out there. You will notice these are large complex systems with unique driver and enclosure designs. They are expensive to engineer and manufacture. You can see where your money is going.
The AN-E may use custom silver voice coil wire drawn by unicorns from the planet xenu. And I do not doubt the drivers are unique and expensive.
At the end of the day, its still a plywood box housing an 8" and 1" driver.
Sometimes we need to listen to the BS detector.

And mine is screaming in my ear as we speak.

[GT Audio Works]

Audio Note has always played its hand to the super rich, Kondo created the mystique and Peter Q marketed it to the hilt.
It never really was about sound it was about being in a club, a very exclusive club.
Peter saw a need and filled it...if you need to spend $165k on a speaker to make you feel fulfilled then Peter was the man to fulfill your dreams.

He needed 30 vintage Mercedes Benzs and a full time mechanic to wash and service them, so he saw a way to make it happen...nothing wrong with that...no poor people were neglected any food or shelter by this purchase, and the person who bought this stuff probably wrote it off his taxes anyway by hiring a very competent accountant.

So all in all it worked out, some wealthy guy got bragging rights to his system, Peter Q got to buy another vintage Mercedes, a accountant got some work, and the poor people...well they just remained poor so all is well!
No harm no foul if you ask me....yeah WE know it doesn't cost anywhere near that to make that speaker but that was probably never the point....no?

Agreed