Its the source of course

[rollo]

Garbage in garbage out. Get the source right than build your system around it. Invest in a better CDP or TT and all will fall in place. With all the money spent on expensive racks, footers, shelves, IC's, speaker cables and powercords the front end is overlooked. Stop trying to synergize that BS source with the latest tweak and put that money to better use.

rollo

[miklorsmith]

But if the rest of the system isn't up to the resolution delivered, will it be worth it?   

[LKdog]

It all matters and prior to the source you have to deal with how to keep your power clean and dealing with your room issues.
You can have a $50,000 source with dirty AC with ringing and and a lousy room and it will be wasted.

[Carlman]

I think the source is the most important place to get right.  If you don't like the way something sounds at the start, you certainly won't like it amplified or more resolved.  The trick is hearing a consistent sound you like in a source in multiple systems... then you know what you've got.  This can apply downstream as well... If you hear a component in other systems and like what it does in each one... and you can hear the positive effects of its 'voice' in those systems... you can then apply that at home.

If you try to build a system in a vacuum, as in, you can only hear each piece in your own system... and you only have 1 system, then I might agree it's all equally important at that point.

-C

[miklorsmith]

Good point, Carl, and excellent strategy.  Unfortunately, difficult to implement.

[Black Sand Cable]

I have always picked speakers first and then built around those. If your speakers suck, it won't matter what is running them, imo you will still have junk. 

I agree the source is important but like I said, I make sure my speakers do it for me first. After that I'm with LKDog, I make sure that my incoming power has been looked after. Once those two steps are in place...I figure out everything else.

[richidoo]

Then I guess I did mine bass ackwards.   

For me, speakers came first, then amps, acoustics, wires, more acoustics, preamp, more acoustics, now source. I thought it was important to put components in place in order of the influence they have on the sound. Speakers have the biggest influence and are determinant in evaluating all components upstream. They must be matched to amps so that comes next. Upgrading speakers first also allowed me to get the most bang for the buck up front when upgrading mid fi system to high end, one component at a time. Now that it's almost done, I am more frustrated than ever with the acoustics and thinking about starting again in a different "space."

Acoustics are by far the most important part of a listening "system."

Good thread rollo, thanks!
Rich

[WEEZ]

Not to diminish the importance of source gear, but my vote goes to speakers first. The speakers and their relationship to the listening room really determine the foundation to build a 'system' around. (emphasis on the word 'system').

WEEZ

[Bigfish8]

I jumped into this hobby with no experience, as green as newbie can be, and purchased mono bloc SS amps and a tube preamp.  My Denon 3806AVR and DVD/CDP produced horrible 2 channel sound from my Monitor Audio 9i Speakers.  I performed just enough research to determine that the Denon 3806 was not a good match for driving the Monitor Audio's for 2 channel sound thus the decision for the amps and preamp.  Honestly, I believe I could have been happy if I had not lurked around AC and later joined AN to get totally absorbed in the Nervosa of Audio. 

Everyone's situation for compiling a 2 channel system is probably unique and many, like me, don't start out having a real vision about their system.  Based on the journey I have taken, so far, I would definitely recommend:

1.  Select the speakers and try to fall in love with highly efficient speakers to provide you with both more options and more economical power options especially if you want to use tube amps.

2.  Select good amps to drive the speakers.

3  Select the source (Streaming, Turntable, or CDP).  I believe this is the second most critical decision to the outcome of the sound from the system.  There are just so many choices and decisions that are spin-offs of the basic choice of type of source, ie., will you need a DAC, do you need mods to the source, do you need an improved power supply, should I use a digital or analog connection, etc. etc. etc. 


4.  Select the appropriate Preamp

5.  Do a lot of homework and purchase ICs carefully.

6.  Avoid aftermarket PCs until you begin tweeking the system.   

7.  I have not attacked room accoustics yet but I know it is a must for my room and probably for most rooms to maximize the potential of a system.  However, I am reaching a point where I am approaching the 95% + capability of the gear potential of the system.  To get the last 5%, gear wise, I will have to purchase $1,000.00/meter ICs and SCs and have expensive upgrades to the wiring & crossovers of the speakers.  Personally, I will never (and you are not suppose to say never) and I mean never go there with this system.  This means I have to convince Vera to tolerate me rearranging and treating the room.  Guys, lets face reality, we like our systems but I, for one, don't like sleeping with it so the WAF is also extremely important to the final outcome.

Ken

[ebag4]

Good topic Shep, or at least one that I have been giving some consideration during the last couple of weeks.  For the last 30 years I have been in the speaker camp with regard to the most important component.  Like many of you I have gone though numerous speakers, some DIY some purchased from boutique shops, and some mass market.  They all have had a big impact on the sound I heard in a given space. 

I have recently (about 2 weeks ago) been forced to reconsider my position with regard to speakers being the major player in the audio chain.  I sent my SB3 into Bolder cables and had Wayne do the enthusiast analog mods using V caps in place of the standard Sonicap Platinums.  I received the modded unit and reinserted it into my system.  It has gone back and forth a bit between sounding great to sounding OK, but it has started to settle in (a little over 300 hours now).  What a difference a source can make!  This is by far the biggest positive jump my system has taken outside of speakers/acoustic treatments.  I will be completing a more detailed assessment (don’t want to call it a review) of what I am hearing once I feel it is fully broken in, but to date I can say that I am VERY happy with the mods Wayne has done.

While I still believe that speakers and acoustic treatments probably make the biggest impact to what you hear, I no longer believe that “bits are bits”, the source plays a much more significant role in the audio chain than I had previously given it credit for.

So what conclusion can I draw from all of this?  Just that it doesn’t matter what amplifier you use, it doesn’t impact the sound. .....just kidding!

[rollo]

It appears we have two camps here. The Speaker first camp and the source first camp. Obviously the two most important pieces of the puzzle.
     Now take a pair of PSB Alpha B1s [ $279 ] or Epos ELS3s [ $329 ] and pair them with a Naim Nait 5i intergrated [ $1495 ] and MBL a CD Transport/1611 e DA [ $44,160 ]. System "A".  Now just change speaker to lets say Rockport Technologies Hyperion [ $91,500 ] and source to an Oppo DV 970HD [ $149 ]. System "B"
      Do you think the speakers or the source would make most of the difference with Naim as a constant.  IMO on paper system "A" would be more desireable. Assuming the room and power are right for these systems.  There may be NO right and wrong here just different approaches. Its great hearing all the opinions.


rollo

[richidoo]

I would prefer the full range speakers with extremely accurate drivers, even playing the oppo. Getting the distortion down on the speakers is the biggest possible gain. $279 speakers will have harmonic distortion above 1-3%, not counting dynamic restriction, and not counting the bottom octave totally missing.

[miklorsmith]

Great hypothetical!  I sure wish I could test it out!!

[WEEZ]

B

[Bigfish8]

It appears we have two camps here. The Speaker first camp and the source first camp. Obviously the two most important pieces of the puzzle.
     Now take a pair of PSB Alpha B1s [ $279 ] or Epos ELS3s [ $329 ] and pair them with a Naim Nait 5i intergrated [ $1495 ] and MBL a CD Transport/1611 e DA [ $44,160 ]. System "A".  Now just change speaker to lets say Rockport Technologies Hyperion [ $91,500 ] and source to an Oppo DV 970HD [ $149 ]. System "B"
      Do you think the speakers or the source would make most of the difference with Naim as a constant.  IMO on paper system "A" would be more desireable. Assuming the room and power are right for these systems.  There may be NO right and wrong here just different approaches. Its great hearing all the opinions.


rollo

I guess this is the drive a Hummer and live in a shack senairo!   

Maybe I am way off base but everytime I want to test a new piece of gear I have to evaluate the impact of that gear through speakers! Amps, preamps, source, ics, pcs, room treatments all impact the quality of sound from the speakers.  The speakers have to be the most critical components of a system because first and foremost they have to have the capability to produce the quality of music you want to hear.  A great source may make cheap speakers sound the best they are capable of sounding but will they have the capability to maximize what the source is sending them?  Not Likely!  I have speakers that are extremely revealing(demonstrated at Richidoo's with numerous IC and SC changes) and I am currently working with my modded S3 (my source) to improve it by adding a Burson Buffer.  I understand the importance of the source but frankly I would not give a darn about the source if I did not like my speakers.

I also believe that expensive speakers driven by a cheap source will sound better than cheap speakers driven by an expensive source.  An Oppo will lack the extreme detail of the expensive players but driven by good amps and preamp with DAC, the system will probably produce okay sound.

Ken