Need a recommendation for a mid-fi receiver

[richidoo]

I have an Onkyo receiver, about 5 years old, but the 6 series. It has front panel buttons for selector and an infinite volume knob, for which you look at the display for the numerical volume level. You can still "find" zero by turning to the left a good healthy turn, I think it is speed sensitive, if you turn it fast it gears up the rate of change. It is 6 channel, but later 6 series are 7. It was $500 when I bought, I thought it was the best deal at the time, and I have owned Onkyo stereo receivers with good results previously. The sound is good in direct pure mode which bypasses all processing, but also defeats the sub. The stereo DAC is shit, but tolerable in pure direct, but the Dolby surround DAC is pretty good. You would have to experiment with the best way to get stereo music into it, but analog ended up being best for me - stereo only. For movies/TV, toslink sounds great. You'll want to use bananas on the speaker connections. My 75wpc is plenty for five 8 ohm deftech speakers.

HDMI will only carry video, no sound at this price range, or until 1.3 is the norm. Technically there should be no loss from switching HDMI at the rx, but YMMV. It is handy to let Rx switch video with audio, so one less remote to deal with or reprogram, but with analog switching has always led to worse picture at this price range. Digital should be better. The onkyo remotes are great, easily programmable to eliminate several remotes, and has macros too. Look for macros programmability on the new versions Jim, that  might be valuable to you, just turn on and press one button on remote to switch everything as needed, even muting.

Have fun!
Rich

[bpape]

Actually, the audio should also be on the HDMI.  1.3 is supposed to give the extended digital sound formats, high color, and better HDCP compliance. 

Bryan

[jrebman]

I was just reading some reviews on different sites and more than one person mentioned that it sounds best with everything defeated, including the video.  So it sounds like the best route is to just connect the Denon directly to the TV with HDMI and connect the 2 channel analog outs to the receiver.

Rich, any particular reason for bananas?  At least one review said yu could use a bare wire connection, so I assume that means that the binding posts have to twist open and closed, which seems like it should accommodate a spade.  No big deal as I can built the cable anyway I want and have a couple of different types of bananas here -- including the very nice, but impossible to open Eichmanns (still trying to figure that little puzzle out . )

Onkyo is definitely looking like the front runner at this point.  Way back when, I had a TX-1500 and then later a TX-4500 in the late 70s - early 80s -- at least back then they were pretty decent relative to most things I could afford.  The chassis of the 1500 was a bit flimsy, but it never gave me a hint of trouble no matter how many times I tried to let the entire dorm hear "Green Grass and High Tides" by The Outlaws .

-- Jim

[richidoo]

HDMI 1.3a will pass audio, but the player must be 1.3 too. This is just coming on now since adaptation of the 1.3 spec was fairly recent, maybe 6-8 months ago. The Onkyo TX-705 has HDMI1.3a. The TX505 does not have audio over HDMI. Stereo Rx's have no HDMI no matter what the price.

Jim, the bananas are strictly for ease of connection. When you have the receiver on the shelf trying to connect 4-10 wires to the posts, bare wire is a nightmare. Bananas plug right in and you're done. I get Radio shack's "finest"    and solder them to the 16ga in wall speaker wires. At this level of amp and source, nervosa about speaker connections is wheel spinning, but it still sounds good. Since you have decent speakers, and can pick whatever wire you want without putting it inwall, some experimentation with contact enhancer might be in order. You won't be able to use spades, they won't fit. Banana connection cups inside the nut are not likely to be a metal that would support using audiophile bananas, probably either aluminum or nickel. Even brass cups would add $5 to the cost and lose thousands of sales. So I guess wrapping Ferrari's wires around the post with some SST would be the most nervosa soothing method, but it will be very difficult to wrap them, it is more like stick it in the plastic hole and tighten the nut, no way to know where the wire actually went. But get some cheapo bananas for all the other speakers if you go with surround.

If you're not doing surround sound, you can get better amps for the same money with stereo. Here is a list of Stereo receivers sold at Crutchfield. They have photos of rear panel, and their own research notes apart from Onkyo blurb. The TX8522 at 100wpc looks nice. Otherwise, the TXSR505 for surround. Same 75w amps as mine, 2 of which can play my legacys to a good volume with no overheating, and decent sound. Pioneer is supposed to be hot now, but the front panel design on the cheaper models is horrible compared to the Onkyo/Denon.

[jrebman]

Rich,

Yes, this will be strictly 2 channel in the bedroom -- no place to put surrounds if I wanted except in-cieling.  The TX-8522 is what I'm looking at most closely right now.  I'll take a look at Crutchfield's notes.

I'm going to use the two pieces of DH Labs T-14 that I have lying around -- one 8' and the other 12', and if I can get spades on the speaker side, they will be small, low-mass Vampire pure copper -- nothing fancy at all, but sound quite good.  Also, access to the rear of the unit is no problem as it will be sitting on an open rack and accessible from all sides.  Believe me, I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible .

Thanks for the tips,

Jim

[jrebman]

Well, Crutchfield sold out of the 8522s between last night and this morning.

Rich, I now see what you mean about the binding posts not being able to take spades.  I'm going to take a semi-educated, but mostly wild guess as to why that is.  My thinking is that a good percentage of "audiophile" speaker cables are terminated with spades, and also many tend to fairly high capacitance, which would probably cause these amps to meltdown.

One interesting thing about the Onkyo is that the amplifier topology uses no global feedback, which may account for some of the better sonic performance that a lot of people have mentioned in their reviews.  On the other hand, a lot of people have said they don't like the Onkyo's sound, but it seems the ones that do generally have better speakers and overall better systems.  And then again, I could just be full of it.

In the end it looks like a really great deal.

BTW, the AV123 stuff that they had mentioned in January on their web site that was getting updated seems to have vanished completely, and my guess is that at best it is in concept or design stage now, which means it could be a long time before it shows up.

-- Jim

[richidoo]

Hey Jim, sorry for the delay, I have been doing other things with my life instead of AN, god forbid! haha

I like your optimistic view of the speaker terminals protecting us from ourselves. I would have guessed they were to prevent kitty or a brat from licking it or sticking a toy in there and getting a big surprise worth 10 million for pain and suffering. If it's only 4 conductors, you can do it with bare wire. 14 ga will fit on mine.

Bummer about Crutchfield. You should be able to find it even cheaper at http://bhphoto.com, or jr, or similar big internet electronics seller, because it is pure commodity item.
Rich

[richidoo]

Here it is at bhphoto, $218, $31 cheaper than crutchfield and in stock... 

[jrebman]

Rich,

Thanks again.  That's where I bought Linda's digital camera.

Still trying to decide between the 8522 and the 8222.  Some people commented that the range on the volume knob was pretty limited with the 8522 -- got very loud very quickly.  This bedroom is only 150 SF, and the speakers will only be 4-5 feet from the foot of the bed.  There aren't going to be any big parties in here (just little ones . )

The little XM radio thing looks cool -- it's a dock with a tiny XM radio receiver that can be used in a car or, I assume with another kind of dock, someplace else, and it also looks like a single subscription is all that is needed.  Have to do a lot more research on that though.

-- Jim

[jrebman]

I just ordered the 8222 from bhphoto.  There must be a run on these things because both Crutchfield and Amazon had both models in stock yesterday, and now they are out .  The Amazon site now says "orders ship in 1 to 3 months"!

Amazon is really passing through to J&R.

That bhphoto web site is a nightmare -- the search field won't even show up with my screen reader.  I'm going to tell the screen reader developers to go to the site and check it out. That had to be the most tedious online purchase I've made in years -- it took me a good half hour to get through everything.

-- Jim

[Carlman]

Hopefully the trouble will be worth it.  Amazon indicated 1-3 months when I ordered my 8522 a while back also... I can't remember where I ordered it now.  Looking forward to hooking it up towards the end of the month or next... It'll be powering 2 pairs of speakers in the master bath and bedroom... should be cool.

-C

[Carlman]

Just got the 8522 connected... wow.  This is a very good value for 220... I would wager better than the darling Panny XR-45 to my ears.  I'm powering cheap ceiling speakers and the whole house is thumpin!  (SB3 is the source)

It's got a phono input!  It also has direct and 'pure sound' modes (bypassing more and more circuitry)... Pure-sound turns off the display in addition to whatever else I'm doing.  I'm highly impressed.  This may be just the ticket for another system... I'll compare it to what I have (and likely get deflated) but hey, it's $220 shipped... free tuner and powers 2 pairs of speakers... could be just right for the patio and family room.... we'll see. 

In the meantime, I'm pleased and can highly recommend the Onkyo 8522. 

-C

[jrebman]

Carl,

Good to hear.  I still have the 8222 and the X-LS speakers sitting in the corner waiting to be setup, and I'm certainly not going to  get to it until sometime after RMAF.

One interesting thing I saw about these receivers is that they are XM ready -- you just need to get a small dock and a mini XM radio (which can also be used as a portable and in your car, apparently), an antenna, and you're set.

Good call, and thanks for the recommendation.

-- Jim

[Carlman]

No problem, I just hope you're as pleased as I am, Jim.  I didn't know how it'd sound until yesterday.  So, I feel good you'll be pleased.... I have way more power than I need... So, I may go with the 8222 for the ceiling speakers upstairs and then move the 8522 to the more power-hungry speakers downstairs. (Era Design 5, 85db) 
See you at RMAF,
Carl