Grover's cables

[shep]

switchcraft 
Regarding SX versions; I would appreciate it if NOBODY mentions my name to him in this context! I fear he will stop using me as a beta tester! Anyway now that i've said it...This happened about 6 weeks ago, that he did something (don't ask me, I don't know what) to tweak the SX and told me he was just going to do it to all production SX, following whatever date it was, so i don't know who got what when. Given his predilection for refining his stuff, i wouldn't be surprised if some time in the future he would have a model change but he's not told me anything further. If I count the initial cost of the first time I got his wires thru the goup buy here, and add 4 upgrades at 50$ a pop, this begins to add up. I guess I'm kind of stuck now just following further into the future. This present version is really good though. I have a custom made set from KCI which were better than Grovers until this latest. They are now second (sorry John!) in resolution and transparency. I also have a power cord from G. on my cdp. I have no idea how good it is since I can't switch to anything else (soldered forever). I rather enjoy following the curve of grover's thought/ears over time. I think he is very talented and since I can't afford the really hi-end cables, I'm stuck with him for eternity!

[richidoo]

Hey, since you like them and you are beta tester, I think you got a pretty good deal going there shep!!! Of course he's gonna keep changing, but you like to try new stuff too, so good match. Maybe someday you'll feel different, but for now live it up. Did you ever try his speaker cables too?

[shep]

Well maybe I'm exaggerating...I'm not an official beta tester, just that he's tried two different one's on me.
I've never tried the speaker cables. I am very happy with the KCI ones I have. The trouble with this wretched nervosa is that you KNOW there's better stuff out there, but it's out of reach. All I get is the itch and no scratching...like when you had poison ivy as a kid! I'm at around 100+ hours on my cdp and still forming (damn Mundorf caps) Report in due time.

[mdconnelly]

Having gone thru numerous Grover updates, I found myself getting annoyed because he kept making improvements and I kept upgrading     But that was clearly my problem, not Grover's 

Frequent updates to the same product is an interesting development & marketing strategy but one that I suspect is doomed to eventually wear down loyal customers.   Grover is not the only one that does this but it certainly does play to the nervosa side of the hobby.

[Black Sand Cable]

Frequent updates to the same product is an interesting development & marketing strategy but one that I suspect is doomed to eventually wear down loyal customers.   Grover is not the only one that does this but it certainly does play to the nervosa side of the hobby.

On the flip side of this coin, I get at least one email a week asking me why I haven't updated cord "X" lately. Sad part is that I know I could sell more cords (short term) as a lot of the people who use my stuff would upgrade, spread the word and more sales would follow.

But.....I can’t do it. If I upgrade there is a very good reason for it and even then, I tend to just make the change and carry on as is and if it’s not significant enough, I don't change the price or charge any type of upgrade fee. When I do make a model change, I have re-done at least 80% of what was there before. Anything less and I don't bother.

Too many upgrades, revisions and so on tend to drive down the value of what is already out there and I hate doing that to people.

Maybe I'm wrong but this is how I like to do things.

[shep]

I'm pretty sure Grover has gotten the message. He said as much to me a while back and wants to keep a low profile about upgrades. The upgrade fever is very much a part of advanced Nervosa; uncureable I suspect but can be moderated   Anyway it seems no one here has this version, or knows if they do, or cares for that matter. I have no complaints (except for the f..ing Switchcraft) on the contrary.

[richidoo]

Switchcraft is not the problem, it's Grover's silver plating that makes them too tight.

[Bigfish8]

Shep:

The Grover Group Buy cables were my first venture into good quality aftermarket cables.  I felt they offered excellent performance for the price and I stayed on the upgrade train for 3 generations to follow.  Good luck and I hope you continue to enjoy them. 

Ken

[grover]

Hello everyone, I'm sorry about the Switchcraft RCA being tight. I know about it but there really is no option for me. I've tried tons of different RCA connectors and the Switchcraft is the best performing RCA in my view. It's not the plating as I remove the nickel plating the Switchcraft comes stock with. The trick is to remove the Switchcraft RCA in an up and down motion or side by side motion slowly. The funny thing is, there appears to be no standard size for RCA jacks and plugs. On some equipment the Switchcraft is loose, some a perfect fit and some very tight. Twisting is the absolute wrong motion to remove a tight plug and most likely to damage both the cable and chassis jack. The good news here is that the Switchcraft is a strong commercially dependable connector. It was designed in the 50's and I personally have never seen this connector fail.
As for upgrading, I'm changing things much less now, I'm obsessed to sell only my finest, and over these years have searched for the golden chalice of cables. I try to make upgrading as easy and as inexpensive as possible. It's not a marketing gimmick its a by product of always trying to improve my cables and trying to help my customers have the best I can produce. Music is real, so satisfying, even astonishing now like never before.  Music is what it's all about. Happy listening to all, Grover Huffman

[shep]

oops...looks like I got caught! 

[richidoo]

It's not the plating as I remove the nickel plating the Switchcraft comes stock with.

My apologies Grover. Nice to see you again.

I have used Switchcraft parts before, in very high current applications. They are the only contacts that can take the current because they are nickel plated copper alloy not brass or steel. I was assuming that you plated over the nickel because removing it first is a pain in the butt and expensive to dispose of the  nickel waste. Just curious if you have compared ID before and after your plating process?

I used my Grover cables as source switcher for a while, they weren't too tight. But that was 3 years ago, on WBT RCA connectors. They were snug but not too tight on SB3 either. Maybe something has changed.

Here's the specsheet for the plug: http://www.switchcraft.com/products/jack-143.html
PDF drawing: http://www.switchcraft.com/products/pdf_files/jack-143_schematic.pdf
No sleeve ID dimension is given. It is designed to spring so tolerance is not as critical, unless you approach the spring limit, which is what's happening to Shep and Mike.

OD of my SB3 analog output (steel) jacks at 0.327"
Well worn gold plated WBT jacks on Manley amp inputs 0.325"
New unused Switchcraft RCA female jacks, gold plated 0.326"
A different Switchcraft jack just shy of 0.324" this one is often too loose for non clamping plugs, it would fall off with gravity, but still makes contact, probably high impedance. 
WBT NXT RCA jack 0.329" but it's plastic so it gives with pressure.

So just 0.001" does make a big difference in the feel of the fit. It is hard to make pressed metal parts within a smaller tolerance than +/- 0.001." Temperature variation of the metal and pressing dies could cover that tolerance. But the plating thickness is pretty important.

Switchcraft was always very helpful when I had technical questions for them. Maybe you can ask Mouser if you can get unplated plugs? Mouser has good relationship with them.

It is difficult to measure the ID of the plug sleeve with standard mics because the pin is in the way.

[evan1]

I happen to like the switchcraft plugs. I have his (Grovers) newer cables .I'm a fan of the snug it.I Just hope I never run into a problem . I guess we should just follow Grovers advice on how to remove.

[Carlman]

I still wish Grover would offer different versions so I can use them to synergize with my various systems better.
-C

[shep]

Grover, i guess I spilled the beans but it has been a while now! anyway I like this version a lot as I told you. There's tight fit and there's impossible. Siince on the subject, the outer ring is always the least problematic on any decent plug. It's the pin connection where the least contact is made and that is more of a problem if we're talking passing a signal. The spring part of the female chassis jack is where a tighter fit is needed. just my cents.

[richidoo]

So Shep you're saying that the pin is too tight but the ring is too loose? That's very
strange.


Edit: I see what you mean. The pin is sometimes too loose. Damn you're picky!