Hardwired or Haywire?

[richidoo]

If upgrade power cords work by better getting out of the way to allow electricity from romex house wiring to get to the audio component in the least restricted way, why not bypass the performance limitations of detachable connections and high cost of high end power cables and just hard wire the house wiring directly to the transformer in the CDP or amp? Or maybe just an EIC connector on one end of the romex and the other end connected to circuit breaker in elec panel. Has anyone ever thought about this?

Seems like we're giving up a lot of performance for the convenience of having a removable power cord! Performance power cord makers must understand the limitations a $5 home depot outlet puts on their superdee duper cables? Far fewer audiophiles upgrade outlets and power cables than those that just do the cables, not everyone feels comfortable changing an outlet.

A theoretically perfect power cable is still only as good as the house wiring feeding it, so power delivery can't get much better than a direct solid copper connection to the circuit breaker right? Silver romex, anyone? Sterling? What does a power cord add to improve the power delivered to the component? It can't "add" anything! (unless you put those little dbs batteries in there... haha) It improves the connection by adding as little as possible! Whereas lamp cord and $5 outlet "adds" a lot to ruin the connection. I'm sure my vocabulary is not describing this as accurately as a EE or wire genius would say it. I never let my ignorance get in the way of a good    idea.

OK, I know what you're thinking: Code Schmode! Hey DirecTV never even grounded the dish on my roof! Who woulda knew if I didn't check it myself?  I know it's illegal to hardwire a movable appliance to the home wiring. Any intrepid audiophile worth his salt can get around that and stay perfectly legal for when the fire inspector comes.      Every electric baseboard heater and chandelier is hard wired, and it's legal because they are permanently affixed to the house structure. They are not movable like a CD player. If an amplifier can be permanently affixed to the frame of the house, it can legally be hardwired with romex coming in through the back of the unit into a metal junction box and connected with $100 rubidium plated Cardas wire caps.    Maybe it would need some special regulatory approval for hardwired appliances? But I don't see that stamped on a $6 sconce lamp.

You would have no outlets, no sliding blade connectors, no brass, no steel, no weird geometry conductors, no EIC plug and socket, no screw downs, no crimping, no oxidation, no dirt, and no $500 cables or $90 outlets that improve but still not completely eliminate the inherent problems of detachable power cables. Just 12ga solid copper between my tubes and their dinner. Bolted to the wall like cabinets you also wouldn't need a rack to hold everything, nor would you have garden hoses all over the floor. Wall mounted vibration isolation mounts and exotic power cables approved for in-wall installation would be new products to resell all over again, just like the CD.   \/

It's nothing against high performance wires. I think cablemaking is a beautiful artform and very important contribution to our sport. You still need great wire to get the power into the component, that will never change. High end wire can be connected from breaker to transformer in one piece with no plugs, bringing out its highest potential. Better than even sterling romex. Some would opt for this if they could afford it and see even greater gains. But getting rid of the quick disconnect junky brass contacts seems the first, easy and cheap way to improve power delivery.

What say you?
 =D>  or  

Please vote in the poll. Describe the BEST power connection you have in your entire system, not the worst!

Thanks!
Rich

[Carlman]

I'll be the first to say it...

It depends.  

I have a dedicated line to my room, 12ga Romex.  My new house/room will have the same, and one step further, a dedicated subpanel... and it'll all be cryo'd.  I'll still follow code for wiring and boxes.... because that just makes sense at a million levels.  

BTW, Some of the far-out concepts you discussed were discussed here also: http://www.audionervosa.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=141  (for further reading if you're interested)  But nothing definitive.  

I can't answer your poll because:
1- My amp does its own thing for power conditioning... direct-to-wall or through a conditioner, it sounds similar.  
2- My preamp and all source components improved through my current conditioner but not necessarily through some others prior to it.
3- What is a conditioner?  2 Auricaps over the hot and neutral as a filter?  What about isolation, balancing, sine wave correction, etc.  (sorry, that's getting mega-picky)

So, mainly my answer would be:
Source gear and preamps sound best through a good power conditioner in my opinion.  Amps usually sound best straight into the wall.  I would wager amps on a separate circuit from the rest of the gear sounds better as well.

Lastly, I'd say the connectors for power cords are not as dramatic as low voltage stuff like IC's.  They are important but not AS important to me.  

So, another discussion could be whether IC connections could be directly soldered to their associated parts rather than using RCA connectors....

How's that answer?

[miklorsmith]

I like the way you write, Rich.  

I'm ambivalent about cables of all types.  Don't get me wrong, I've spent plenty on cables.  Right now, I'd say the total retail value of all the cables I have in-house is around $2,500.  I didn't spend anywhere near that it's just a figure for reference.

I have really fat copper interconnects, minimalist silver ICs, fat copper speaker cables and "proprietary", expensive and "neutral" speaker cables, assorted power snakes.  It would be easy to switch them around and see how different they sound.  I haven't done it.

Why?

#1  I've been using TacT preamps for the last few years.  With that much power at your fingertips, swapping cables is like yelling in a hurricane.

#2  I've been too busy swapping gear that *really* makes a difference to even get to know my own rig intimately.  It's weird, but about the only constant (and only 18 months at that) has been the speakers.  Amps are getting there, but neither has been under my roof for over a year.

#3  In this crazy pursuit, I have relegated tweaks and cables to the bottom of my ever-shifting list of priorities.  Once I get a locked-down setup these elements may rise to the top but I feel I'm a ways from there.

#4  I'm jaded.  I played with a lot of tweaky stuff earlier on, during the cable acquisition phase.  The cables I ended up with were highly regarded all of 3 years ago.  I have a hard time believing wire technology has progressed sufficiently to pry dollars from my cold, not-quite-dead fist.

#5  I don't understand enough about electrical theory to even try to explain any of this stuff to myself.

To each their own formula and I'm not one to call an audiophile's allocation of available funds foolish (usually).  It would be curious to see a $50k system hooked up with lamp cord and I have a hard time understanding the need for $10k speaker cables in ANY system but it's not my money or ears.

All this is a 300-mile detour around the direct question, I know.  But, going to The Next Level of Inquiry, that of the connections of said cables to my gear, goes even further afield.

To be completely clear, I embrace all the permutations of this hobby and its kooks.  Each of us spins our own little coccoon.  I may weave in metallic threads some day but for now I'm just trying to get the source/pre/amp/speakers right.  Yeah, yeah, I understand The Next Great Cable might just say "Eureka", but I doubt it.

[bpape]

Dedicated outlets for devices.  Dedicated circuits (all on the same 110v leg of the 220v main with any motors, dimmers, etc. on the other 110v leg).  Mix of stock and aftermarket cords (homemade).

Hardwiring to me is a non-starter.  Just the simple PITA of undoing it when I want to take something somewhere else or having to have both when someone brings over a piece to audition makes that not worth it in my opinion.

For that matter, why use binding posts on speakers and amps?  Why not just solder directly do the xover board and the amp terminals?

Bryan

[richidoo]

For that matter, why use binding posts on speakers and amps?  Why not just solder directly do the xover board and the amp terminals?
Bryan

Exactly! Now you're talking!!    

Of course the whole premise can be taken as far as you like, but I guess I am more interested in the electrical principle more than the convenience factor, cost savings or other applications of the principle.  Will direct wiring of electrical power improve the audio experience over removable cords, whether they be stock or performance upgrade wires. Just wondering in others' experience, is the plug/outlet interface a bottleneck?

[shep]

Hardcore stuff indeed! I suspect hardwiring speaker wires might be of some benefit but what a pain to undo! You really have to be very sure about your gear and the sonics to go this road. It's not easily undone.

[shrinkmore]

Hey Rich,

By now, you have probably checked out the thread I started in the Self-Help or Do It Yourself (DIY) ward, labeled "Dedicated Subpanel," which is referenced and linked above.  My original intention was to hard wire the "plug end" directly to a circuit breaker - but let me tell you what I have now, as your thinking here is identical to mine when I was installing my dedicated subpanel:

1) 60 Amp breaker in my main panel
2) 6 Guage stranded copper line to the subpanel - 20 foot run
3) Subpanel is tin plated copper
4) 5 Dedicated 20 amp breakers
5) 5 10 guage romex dedicated runs
6) 5 Oyaide SWO-XXX outlets
7) 3 Black Sand Cable (BSC) Silvers and 2 BSC Violets
Wire connections at the box coated with a clear antioxidation gel.  Wire connections at the outlets coated with Caigs Pro Gold.  All plugs and IEC (I don't know what this stands for) coated with Caigs Pro Gold.

As you can see, other than hard wiring, my components are getting all the "dinner" they can digest, and it is a very open and clear sound.  

Why did I not hardwire anything?  

1) I am a risk taker, but imagined my house burning down, perhaps even for some other reason (because I wired this stuff perfectly) and having to live in a tent in the ashes for a long while.
That aside though:

2) There is the belief - and granted, only belief as far as I "know" - that power cords condition the electricity before going into your beloved components.  The evidence for this belief is that power cords do cause systems to sound different.  Therefore, they are conditioning the sound.  Do you think Romex will condition your system in a direction that you want?  This is a question you should seriously consider.  

3) The equipment you have was probably developed with the electricity coming through a relatively stock power cord, not the rush that would be provided by a hardwired set-up.  So, one should ask: What is the impact of such an open source on the signal?  Could it be too bright, too forward.  
In fact, right now, I am struggling with this with just the set-up that I have, but noticed that in my new house, I moved not too long ago, that my system was sounding edgy and bright at the high end even before I installed the subpanel.  I think this could be due to some old tubes???  However, I wonder if the dedicated and open flow of power is adding to this.  At the same time, there is sooo much detail and clarity, it is very pleasing in this regard - and this is from the subpanel, dedicated lines, and was further improved by the BSC cords; I wonder how much the Oyaides help with this, and suspect that they do.  Nonetheless, the harshness is unacceptable and I will be trying some different tubes - hoping that's it.  If not, then I'll be trying the softer sounding Oyaide outlets, but probably after trying some relatively cheap brass outlets.  In a way, I am pretty happy, because now I have to work to soften a system with a tube pre-amp and a tube dac.  More reason to feed the audioneurotic beast!!!

4) Once you hardwire, that's pretty much it, your committed.  Because of my belief in the conditioning aspect of power cords - otherwise why would they sound different - I was going to hardwire the plug end to the circuit breaker, i.e., just an open wire, but keep the IEC end, so as not to mess up my components.  However, I realized that I would be messing up some expensive power cords that I almost surely (no reference to Brian here) could not resell.   So, what if I change components or just decided that my powercords weren't the ones I wanted to use, or even wanted to try a different power cord?  I suppose I could rig an outlet and use a plug and then cut off the plug.  However, this too could change the sound in unpredictable ways, and then again, if I didn't like it, I'd have some cut cables, of little use, other than hanging myself.

[djbnh]

I can't answer the poll because none of the responses fits my situation, which I'll describe below.

Recently I had dedicated AC lines installed and am hearing noticeable improvements. Cost for line installation was $120. I purchased the electrical duplexes separately [see 2) below)]. For those who care, I mention that I live in a rural, unattached home.

Here's some notes:

1) Had my electrician run 3/2 20-amp wire. One line is connected to a single duplex, which powers my digital source; the other line feeds current to two duplexes, which in turn supply power for my mono amps, the preamp, and the TT. Separate breakers, installed into the main house box, were used for each line. Lines were run in the basement the length of the house (my dedicated 1st floor audio room is at the far end of the house, away from the electrical panel), then snaked through up into the first floor.

2) Receptacles that I purchased separately are cryoed Pass and Seymour 20 amp 8300 MRI "hospital grade" receptacles purchased from Chris VenHaus of VH Audio. Electrician let me coat the 20 amp wire ends, prior to insertion into the receptacles, with Walker SST.

3) I had to dismantle and move all of my audio set-up prior to the dedicated line wiring, except for my speakers. For RCAs, ICs, and PCs that I had to disconnect, I cleaned those items and recoated with Walker SST. My mono amps each now sit on a 25 lb granite slab, on the floor, nearby the respective speaker that each amp powers. The TT was reinstalled / re-leveled as before, the preamp and its granite slab moved to the bottom of my audio rack, and the CDP left in its original position atop its granite slab. I replaced my speaker cables with a shorter length of the same cable (shorter runs due to moving amps closer to speakers). The preamp and TT each were previously was plugged into a Monster Cable HTS2100 Powerline Conditioner; the HTS2100 is no longer used.

Results - it's turning into a very pleasant experience. I hear increased separation, soundstage width / depth, precision, detail (attack/decay edges, improved low volume level detail, etc.), air around and between instruments / voices, - in general, better everything with it seeming like the performers and instruments are much more content to be in the room with me. I'm sure the other changes that accompanied the installation of the dedicated lines have some impact, but as to what they bring I'm not sure, and I'm sure I don't care. This changeover, for me, is an unqualified, toe-tapping success. At this point, I do not hear a need to further upgrade my power. YMMV.

FYI - I use non-stock PCs, all by the same manufacturer.

[richidoo]

Cool! Great variety of responses and experience. I am still intrigued by this area, and wanna try some more experiments.

Bryan, just want to clarify I was being sarcastic in my winked response to your sarcastic response, and agree that soldering speaker wire and ICs is over the top. But those interfaces are not subject to NEC and have been optimized to not limit the connection more than the wire between them. I know there are good quality outlets available, but are they optimized to the degree of performance power cables? If so, then this whole topic is moot. Figures! haha

Seems isolating the circuit off main panel gives an improvement, and subpanel may add even bigger improvement. That make sense to me, due to simple physics of large ga wire and fewer resistance-increasing twist connections.  Multiple circuits are often outlets which by code require only 15A rating wire, so maybe this also effects resistance on the long runs from panel. Audiophiles usually will spec a 20A circuit on a dedicated run.

Putting silver butter on the romex is a nice touch! A definite sign of incurable audionervosa and a pretty good idea! The silver will not evap and should remain effective since the connection is never moved. Seems to me this approach would help in the removable cable connections too, which of course Walker and others claim it does!

As to dangers of house burning down, I agree the code is there for a reason and must be followed which is why I proposed bolting down the components as a tongue in cheek, purely technical solution. Solid core wire like romex is not intended to be bent more than a couple times, especially the hard diluted copper alloy that will easily work harden and break after a couple bends. That must be the reason appliance cords are always stranded, and why immovable appliances can have solid connection. But if stranded conducted power better, it would no doubt be inside the walls instead of solid. Stranded lightning grounding cable is 1/2" dia, whereas solid is only about 1/4" diam for same application.

So does solid core have an effect on sound? There are a few solid conductor speaker and IC cables out now which are working well, by anecdotal accounts, and I use 'em   . I have read about the magic that occurs between strands of a conductor and all that Cardas holy math to tune this phenomenon to good use. Can stranded perform better than solid with same total cross section area and same conductor metal?

While hardwiring can be taken to the extreme of soldering both ends with no other interface, I agree that is inconvenient, and was picturing more like a copper IEC connector on the end of the romex coming out of the wall, removing just the outlet interface and flex power cord. This wouldn't impact on equipment swapping, but would definitely be a violation of electrical code and would give metal fatigue and fire hazard to the cord, so not worth even discussing. Thanks for the fresh air perspective on that. The outlet serves a more important purpose than just convenience of plugging things in, it is a way to interface solid permanent wiring into flexible cable, and should not be bypassed. Maybe a quality all copper hospital type outlet with silver butter behind and in front is more than good enough.

Good luck on the tube harsh journey shrinkmore, I know the feeling. Look into JJ they seem to be very low distortion on input tubes especially compared to other new brands and even a lot of NOS. Also check your bias and output tube matching. PP crossover distortion harshness can easily hide there even in a great circuit design.

Thanks for responding everybody!
Rich

[shrinkmore]

I've done some research on the stranded versus solid for electical runs, and the consensus seems to be that solid gives a better sound, that is up to the outlet.  

Whats a PP?

You reference it in your previous reponse.  

Since my post I've been rolling some tubes in the output section of my BAT (Balanced Audio Technology) VK5i pre-amp and now have a complement of 6 Amperex in there, and the harshness is gone.  I also have done some temporary room treatments, involving taking the cushions off of a couch and placing other large pillows, and things have quieted down.  (Shirley, I'll be lookin' into some GIK's (a brand of sound panel) after I take you up on your offer of a room treatment consult with you.)  Rich, I have tried some JJ's for the power tubes of my pre-amp and liked them, but not as much as NOS, 1960's RCA Black Plates, which are a holy grail type tube, and they are pretty amazing (and pretty expensive).  Since I'm doing a lot of rolling today, I think I may just try the JJ's again, and I'll get back to you on my preference.  JJ's are so cheap, I think I might buy 6 6922 to put in my BAT pre-amp, just to compare.  I would like to hear some NOS Telefunkens also, but that would cost from $600-1,000 - Crazy!  Maybe that's why I just didn't want to take my Telefunken's out, but they were obviously burnt!  Weird nervosa.  

Rich, and others, there is no doubt that isolation and dedication of electrical source makes many great improvements.  It is probably the most palpable and cheapest thing you can do improve the sound in pretty much every way!  I will never have my system set up without a dedicated subpanel with dedicated runs.

I still want to know if radical hardwiring sounds great - The world may never know...

[bobrex]

I'm a little confused as to why people think that a sub panel is "isolated" from the main panel.  A sub panel takes its feed from the main panel for all branches - hot, neutral, and ground.  So how can it possibly isolate?

[shrinkmore]

Good point Bo.  However, I think that the idea of "relative isolation" can resolve this.  Other than battery power supplies, we are all on the power grid and cannot be isolated, even from our neighbors.  Only an electrical engineer can answer this in technical terms.  However, having a subpanel with a dedicated ground offers relative isolation.  Experience shows that relative isolation and dedicated lines creates better sound.  The greater the separation from other electrical devices, the better the sound.  In other words: The relative isolation as well as a dedicated flow of electricity along a paticular circuit creates the better sound.  I guess I think that sound is so sensitive and has such subtle electrical activity that any disturbance in the source of the power can influence it, usually for the negative.  The way I imagine - and it is only audio and not electrical knowledge - the power may have a chance to stabilize along the run from the main panel to the subpanel as it flows there along the stranded wire.  It is further affected - perhaps stabilized in some way - at the hunk of copper that is the subpanel, then again through the dedicated wires, etc...   I guess the assumption is, electricity stabilizes along unimpeded and unaffected (not influenced by various devices) electrical conduits.

[richidoo]

Hi Doug, Bob
PP = pushpull, class AB toloplogy, two devices share amplification duty, increasing power and reducing heat and cost. Handoff of positive signal current to negative signal current from one tube to its mate can be adversely affected and create audible distortion when the tubes' bias are not matched. New tubes will change a lot in the first couple hundred hours requiring adjusting the bias a few times to maintain best sound during break in. I have adjusted mine twice in only 80 hours, last time one tube was off by 10% and it sounded terrible, making me think I made a big mistake with these amps! Re-biasing fixed it and got me back in the spirit. Biasing tubes individually is a great benefit in this regard, but nuisance in other ways I started thinking of a way that a PIC controller could monitor and adjust bias by itself. Alas, yet another project in my dreams...

The JJ tubes that are said to be significantly lower distortion than even RCAs and Genelex are the 12AT7s, which are notoriously glary tubes anyway, not thought of highly even in NOS. I would like to think that JJs other tubes, also having good reputations, benefit from the metalurgy and tube design that makes the JJ 12AT7 superior to NOS, at least among modern tubes, but this is just my conjecture on my part. I'm hoping all this talk is true when I get my JJ 'T7s in a couple days.

I personally think that the improvement in sub panels and dedicated outlets comes from reducing resistance with larger ga wire over the long runs and eliminating twisted connections on dedicated circuits. I doubt that the AC wiring has any attenuating effect on non 60Hz signals on the line, given all the new technologies like data over power lines emerging now which piggybacks high frequency "noise" on the 60Hz signal for long distances. I don't know how "less resistance" becomes "improved sound," but it is such a common theme in high end audio that is seems likely to be true. We know resistors in a circuit color the signal, and non coloring Vishay S102 resistors are an expensive solution. In most cases, the AC power is used directly to power the speakers (through rectifiers and amplifiers, but they don't limit current flow very much), and so the AC power's ability to deliver instantaneous current might have something to do with the improved sound. In cases where 4 pole filter caps effectively isolate AC from the speakers or when a power supply is grossly "oversized" as in SB PS upgrades, or ARC Ref 3 preamp's (180 joule?) power supply  or RE Designs famous SS amp, this all seems to improve the sound very noticably. Perhaps by allowing faster current transients.

At some point I will concoct an experiment to test various power wiring schemes. That would be a lot of fun. Meantime, I'm looking forward to getting my BSCs.

Rich

[shrinkmore]

Rich, thanks for your insight.  I agree with what your saying about the biggest benefit of a dedicated subpanel and lines etc... is the unimpeded and relatively large flow of electricity.  Also interesting, what you're saying about data on power AC lines.  What you are saying about there being no attenuating effect from AC lines seems to make sense and I may have been in error above.  Given what you are saing, I think I confused "isolated draw of current" with "isolation from noise."  I did this in part because poor AC current flow turns into problems with the signal comming out of the speaker, the latter of which can be "noise."  

Nonetheless, I'm still having difficulty accepting that no noise reduction occurs with the use of dedicated panels and lines:  There seems to be some evidence of isolation or again "relative isolation" occuring: In the previous posts Bo was addressing the isolation question and while I hear what your saying about wiring not having any attenuating effect on the AC signal, if there was no attenuating effect at all, then we would all be sharing all the noise on the grid, or at least our section of it, which might even cumulate; although those transformers on the poles may help with this?  However, it just doesn't seem to be the case that the noise stays in the lines or cumulates (although I wonder how the data on the AC grid may translate into noise in audio systems?).  For example, when installing a dedicated panel, it is advisable to use the pole that is alternate to the one that appliance motors are on, e.g., refrigerators, because these have been observed to create noise in audio systems.  However, certainly on average, about half of our neighbor's refrigerators are on the pole (positive or negative) that we are using for our audio, but this does not come through in noise and distortion.  Therefore, it seems that as the electricity travels away from various sources of noise, it smooths out.  Does it go to ground?  Perhaps as the distance increases, the orignial 60 hertz signal becomes more prominent relative to the noise?  (Perhaps the data signal has a particular bandwidth that does not attenuate over distance and does not interfere with audio signals?)  The fact that Bo and others have stopped using their power conditioners, which should be reducing noise, when they install a dedicated line seems to support this.   However, it may be that poor AC lines cause some sort of "speaker noise" that conditioners reduce...

Despite all this, I am not convinced myself that there is any attenuation, and will have to think and find out more about this.  Conversely, you may be minimizing some isolation that does occur from dedicated circuits.  Again thanks for your post.  
 
In any case, I should amend what I said above by saying that with a dedicated panel and/or line, there are no other sources that draw on that panel and line, and this lack of alternate draw improves the sound.  In this sense, alternate draw turns into audio distortion or noise or is an impedediment to the reproduced sound.  This must be so, as the sound is clearer, more detailed, and more open with dedicated AC.  

Stepping back for a moment, the larger question seems to be: In what way do specific changes in the quality of the electrical signal fed into audio components translate into specific changes in the quality of the sound coming out of the speakers?  
Again, one thing is for sure, dedicated panels and lines, create many improvements in sound.

[bpape]

Well, to me, a captive power cord resolves at least some of this worry - but then everyone bitches about that since they can't use their own cord.  

To me, the best we can do reasonably is retrofit our equipment with aftermarket captive cords so the only pressure connections are at the outlet itself.  

Bryan