AudioNervosa

Systemic Development => Amplification and Preamplification => Topic started by: Nick B on January 27, 2021, 08:08:09 PM

Title: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on January 27, 2021, 08:08:09 PM
I’m thrilled with the sound I’m getting nowadays. But this hobby has me wondering...a little bit... how things would sound with a different amp. I’ve been using the tricked up ICE amp I bought from TomS. Had an on/off switch installed to get rid of a weird rt channel noise on shut off...probably emanating from my tube preamp.

The idea of a tube amp..or even another solid state .. is intriguing, but it would likely weigh more than I’d like. It’s great to have my heaviest component weigh only 30 lbs (my Fritz speaker). Don’t really have a budget in mind, but no more than $2,000

Anyway, thoughts/recommendations welcome.

Nick

Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: tmazz on January 27, 2021, 09:41:32 PM
What kind of power do you need to drive those speakers?
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on January 27, 2021, 09:58:37 PM
They’re about 87 db, but pretty easy to drive per Fritz. I believe that is because of his crossover design. Iirc, he told me me he’s run them with as little as 8 watts. I do tend to listen at high volume
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Jack on January 27, 2021, 11:31:49 PM
Nick

Fritz and I own both own and think the Van Alstine SET 400 is a great pairing with the Carrera's and a tube preamp but if you don't want the weight (38 lbs) and size then the SET 120 at half the size and weight should do the job.
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on January 27, 2021, 11:47:12 PM
Jack,
Thanks for the suggestion, especially since I value your opinion and Fritz’s  :thumb: I’ll take a look. I’d prefer to keep the weight at 45 lbs or below. I can still handle that with my advancing years  :roll:
Nick
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Jack on January 28, 2021, 12:17:35 AM
The SET 400 is really not that bad especially compared to my 88 lb. BHK 250 but the 120 is an alternative if you don't want or need the reserve power.
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on January 28, 2021, 02:08:35 AM
I’m up very late listening, and very much enjoying, my system. I’ve been thinking more about what I am really looking for in a new amp. My setup now is detailed, provides quite sufficient bass...maybe a teeny bit boomy at times, but hard to say whether it’s related to the recording or the room acoustics. The treble is excellent and the timbre is much improved. With the cap and tube upgrades I’ve made, the sound has become more “organic”. I would prefer a slightly smoother and richer mid and upper midrange and an even better presentation of the timbre. Do I absolutely need a tube or even a hybrid amp to achieve that, I have no idea. I am also open to the idea of an integrated as well, although my Audio Hungary 204 tube preamp with the nos Amperex 7308 tubes that Dave recommended is superb.

I will try and post some pics of my room as I’m open to some simple acoustic panels as well. Apple stores my pics as jpgs or jpegs and I think our forum software only accepts one of those formats. I’ll try and get those pics posted later today. And I’ve upped my budget as well  :drool:  :duh
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: rodge827 on January 28, 2021, 04:13:39 AM
Check out the Digital Amplifier Company. I have had a number of his amps over the last few years, with  the last being a 2-Cherry. They are powerful and clean without any of the negative characteristics attributed to digital amplifiers. The closest sound to SET in a SS amp I’ve ever come across. I sold the DAC amp since I was able to score an excellent pair of 300b monos that I had always wanted. Are the 300b amps better? I’ll just say that if I had the funds the DAC amps would still be around and some serious swapping would still be going on.

Reach out to Tommy at DAC he is a great guy to chat with and could make suggestions on which of his creations would suit you best.

https://www.cherryamp.com/

These are a very good deal and the seller is trustworthy:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=174490.0




Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: rollo on January 28, 2021, 08:36:52 AM
  An Audio Hungary Amp APR 200 with 100W/ch would go great with your preamp.


charles
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on January 28, 2021, 02:35:51 PM
Check out the Digital Amplifier Company. I have had a number of his amps over the last few years, with  the last being a 2-Cherry. They are powerful and clean without any of the negative characteristics attributed to digital amplifiers. The closest sound to SET in a SS amp I’ve ever come across. I sold the DAC amp since I was able to score an excellent pair of 300b monos that I had always wanted. Are the 300b amps better? I’ll just say that if I had the funds the DAC amps would still be around and some serious swapping would still be going on.

Reach out to Tommy at DAC he is a great guy to chat with and could make suggestions on which of his creations would suit you best.

https://www.cherryamp.com/

These are a very good deal and the seller is trustworthy:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=174490.0

Thanks. I’ll check it out. I’ve seen some DAC posts at AC.
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on January 28, 2021, 02:45:34 PM
  An Audio Hungary Amp APR 200 with 100W/ch would go great with your preamp.


charles

Charles,
I’m sure it would sound very, very good, but it’s 65 lbs and retails at $4,700 💰 :roll:
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: rodge827 on January 29, 2021, 04:34:42 AM

Nick I forgot to mention that DAC offers a 30 day no frills return policy. You'll just be out for the shipping both ways.

Chris
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Emil on January 29, 2021, 04:57:33 AM
If you're gonna look into Class D......

https://orchardaudio.com/bosc
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: rollo on January 29, 2021, 07:03:32 AM
  An Audio Hungary Amp APR 200 with 100W/ch would go great with your preamp.


charles

Charles,
I’m sure it would sound very, very good, but it’s 65 lbs and retails at $4,700 💰 :roll:

  You will need an Amp Girl to help you.

charles
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on January 29, 2021, 11:23:16 AM

Nick I forgot to mention that DAC offers a 30 day no frills return policy. You'll just be out for the shipping both ways.

Chris

Thanks, Chris
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: tmazz on January 29, 2021, 05:19:53 PM
Check out the Digital Amplifier Company. I have had a number of his amps over the last few years, with  the last being a 2-Cherry. They are powerful and clean without any of the negative characteristics attributed to digital amplifiers. The closest sound to SET in a SS amp I’ve ever come across. I sold the DAC amp since I was able to score an excellent pair of 300b monos that I had always wanted. Are the 300b amps better? I’ll just say that if I had the funds the DAC amps would still be around and some serious swapping would still be going on.

Reach out to Tommy at DAC he is a great guy to chat with and could make suggestions on which of his creations would suit you best.

https://www.cherryamp.com/

These are a very good deal and the seller is trustworthy:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=174490.0

Thanks. I’ll check it out. I’ve seen some DAC posts at AC.

Nick,

I heard the DAC that are listed in that AC add at Shadowlights a couple of years ago. they were switched into as system that we were listening to with tube amps and I was shocked at how little the character of the sound changed when we hooked up the Cherry amps. You would think that going from tubes to class D would be very noticeable but it really was not. Of course I can't say from that one limited exposure how they might do in your system, but at least at Shadowlight's I was very impressed with what I heard.

I have also heard Leo's Orchard Audio amps when he came to demo his gear at an AudioSyndrome meeting at my house. They were an earlier version than what he was selling now, but I have to say that they were very "not Class D sounding." And from everything I have read, he new amps are supposed to be even better.
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on January 29, 2021, 09:13:56 PM
Check out the Digital Amplifier Company. I have had a number of his amps over the last few years, with  the last being a 2-Cherry. They are powerful and clean without any of the negative characteristics attributed to digital amplifiers. The closest sound to SET in a SS amp I’ve ever come across. I sold the DAC amp since I was able to score an excellent pair of 300b monos that I had always wanted. Are the 300b amps better? I’ll just say that if I had the funds the DAC amps would still be around and some serious swapping would still be going on.

Reach out to Tommy at DAC he is a great guy to chat with and could make suggestions on which of his creations would suit you best.

https://www.cherryamp.com/

These are a very good deal and the seller is trustworthy:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=174490.0

Thanks. I’ll check it out. I’ve seen some DAC posts at AC.

Nick,

I heard the DAC that are listed in that AC add at Shadowlights a couple of years ago. they were switched into as system that we were listening to with tube amps and I was shocked at how little the character of the sound changed when we hooked up the Cherry amps. You would think that going from tubes to class D would be very noticeable but it really was not. Of course I can't say from that one limited exposure how they might do in your system, but at least at Shadowlight's I was very impressed with what I heard.

I have also heard Leo's Orchard Audio amps when he came to demo his gear at an AudioSyndrome meeting at my house. They were an earlier version than what he was selling now, but I have to say that they were very "not Class D sounding." And from everything I have read, he new amps are supposed to be even better.

Tom,

My only experience with class D amps is my ICEpower. It does a lot of things well. With my new cabling and nos tubes, I’ve appreciated the improvement, especially in the  textures and harmonics of music. Instruments sound more real than ever. Can any reasonably priced Class D amp (new or used) provide that, I have no idea. I have a hunch that the Audio Hungary amp or integrated would provide exactly what I want. But as I mentioned previously, the amp is heavy and well, there is the issue of 💰 💰. The DAC, Bosch and AVA have been mentioned. My hunch there is the AVA might come closest. I don’t like auditioning amps that I’m not reasonably certain I’d buy.

I’m going to keep reading...and thinking...and appreciate the suggestions I’ve received so far.

Nick
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Jack on January 29, 2021, 10:17:02 PM
Nick

As you know I own the Mivera amp which is basically the same amp as yours with a fancier case.  With a good tube preamp in front of it there is really nothing it does wrong especially on the frequency extremes but as with the other three Class D amps I have owned an sold it doesn't really have any "soul" or warmth.  While the tube preamp helps it can only go so far.  In terms of long term listenability it just doesn't hold up to the SET 400, an Odyssey Kismet or my BHK 250.  The two hybrid Class D amps from PS Audio and the new Dragon from Rogue supposedly move closer with their tube input stages but I doubt they get all the way there.  I don't think moving from one Class D camp to another is going to get you where you want to go and unfortunately more powerful tube amps are expensive and heavy, just the nature of the beast. 
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on January 29, 2021, 11:01:39 PM
Nick

As you know I own the Mivera amp which is basically the same amp as yours with a fancier case.  With a good tube preamp in front of it there is really nothing it does wrong especially on the frequency extremes but as with the other three Class D amps I have owned an sold it doesn't really have any "soul" or warmth.  While the tube preamp helps it can only go so far.  In terms of long term listenability it just doesn't hold up to the SET 400, an Odyssey Kismet or my BHK 250.  The two hybrid Class D amps from PS Audio and the new Dragon from Rogue supposedly move closer with their tube input stages but I doubt they get all the way there.  I don't think moving from one Class D camp to another is going to get you where you want to go and unfortunately more powerful tube amps are expensive and heavy, just the nature of the beast.

Jack,

I’m listening to a beautifully recorded album right now and your use of “soul” and “warmth” sums it up quite nicely. I may need to adjust my parameters a bit.

Nick
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Jack on January 30, 2021, 12:00:03 AM
Nick

I don't know how you feel about Classical music and my knowledge is limited but listen to the first part of this CD on Qobuz or Tidal and tell me what you here in terms of "soul"

https://www.amazon.com/Dance-Cello-Concerto-Inbal-Segev/dp/B086Y6JGDM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1T1RCQXR6UUEZ&dchild=1&keywords=anna+clyne+dance&qid=1611993392&sprefix=anna+clyne%2Caps%2C179&sr=8-1
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on January 30, 2021, 01:33:39 AM
Nick

I don't know how you feel about Classical music and my knowledge is limited but listen to the first part of this CD on Qobuz or Tidal and tell me what you here in terms of "soul"

https://www.amazon.com/Dance-Cello-Concerto-Inbal-Segev/dp/B086Y6JGDM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1T1RCQXR6UUEZ&dchild=1&keywords=anna+clyne+dance&qid=1611993392&sprefix=anna+clyne%2Caps%2C179&sr=8-1

Jack,

I’ll take a stab at this before calling it an evening...or should I say just about morning  💤 I’m not much of a classical music enthusiast. I played it via Roon and just played a bit of each cut. Overall, I didn’t care for the recording very much. It was a bit flat sounding in parts. I’ve heard cello recordings sound much better/richer on my system. The violins and cello were lacking in texture. I played a number of CDs tonight that were quite a bit better.
As to soul and warmth, this recording didn’t do it for me.

I took a look at the amps you mentioned. The BHK is a beast at 83 lbs and way over my budget...even used. But an Odyssey Kismet stereo in maybe a Khartago case or an AVA SET amp might be very nice. New or used pricing is quite reasonable. If you were leaning toward one brand, which might it be?

Thanks much,
Nick
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: rollo on January 30, 2021, 08:03:32 AM
  Let me throw in another Black Ice [ Jolida] tubed amp. Would love to see ya get a APX 200 but price/wgt may be a factor. Do not sell Black Ice however heard them Impressive sound. For Class D only one amp I would recommend. Arion HS 500 hybrid class D. Uses a 6H30 input tube with custom not OEM class D output. I used them for the Pipe Dreams and Fritz. Quite good with Tubed Preamp, actually the one you have. Have fun.



charles
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Jack on January 30, 2021, 08:22:22 AM
Nick

I've owned four of Klaus' amps over the years with the most recent being the Kismet in the Khartago case and they never fail to impress.  After a while I sell and then come back again after a while.  At the moment it appears that Klaus is pretty backed up with a wait time that could be months unless you find one used.  I don't think you can go wrong with either with your preamp but if I had to choose right now it would probably be the SET going from memory as I didn't have them both in the house at the same time. Plus with Frank you do get the 30 day trial period.

Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on January 30, 2021, 01:43:04 PM
  Let me throw in another Black Ice [ Jolida] tubed amp. Would love to see ya get a APX 200 but price/wgt may be a factor. Do not sell Black Ice however heard them Impressive sound. For Class D only one amp I would recommend. Arion HS 500 hybrid class D. Uses a 6H30 input tube with custom not OEM class D output. I used them for the Pipe Dreams and Fritz. Quite good with Tubed Preamp, actually the one you have. Have fun.



charles

You have mentioned the Arion mono amps before. They must be very special. It would be an affordable purchase if I could buy used. What surprised me was your mention of the Black Ice amps. I knew about the name change from Jolida, but had not heard any rave reviews of the Black Ice products. I did a web search today and found out that Jim Fosgate is involved. I’m presuming you heard the Fusion F 100 monos. Do you recall the model?
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on February 03, 2021, 02:17:09 PM
Thanks to all for the suggestions I’ve received here and via PM! Much appreciated. As I have a class D amp now, I’m inclined to go another direction. Because of budget considerations, I’m considering a new or used AVA SET 120, preferably used AVA SET 400, new/used VTA ST 70 or ST 120, Golden Tube SE 40 modded by Jeff at Sonic Craft. It is the “deluxe” mod that includes the Black Gate caps. The GT amp looks to be in beautiful condition and the seller is the original owner too. It is heavier than I’d like and it’s way on the east coast. Another contender would be the used Arion HS 500s. But used would be impossible to find and probably be more than I’d want to spend. Don’t know enough about Jolida/Black Ice to consider. Any of these would...I think...be fine with my Audio Hungary tube preamp.
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: mdconnelly on February 03, 2021, 02:39:23 PM
If you're gonna look into Class D......

https://orchardaudio.com/bosc

I have to echo this recommendation.   I'm using the OrchardAudio PecanPi Streamer with the BOSC (now called Starkrimson) amps and am exceedingly impressed. 
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on February 03, 2021, 04:41:51 PM
If you're gonna look into Class D......

https://orchardaudio.com/bosc

I have to echo this recommendation.   I'm using the OrchardAudio PecanPi Streamer with the BOSC (now called Starkrimson) amps and am exceedingly impressed.

I have no doubt that it’s quite good. I’m just leaning towards not doing another class D...
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on February 03, 2021, 04:57:59 PM
Well, this bummed me out :(  Just spoke with the Golden Tube SE 40 owner. For starters, it weighs about 60 lbs. Not good for my back. Then there is the biasing issue. The amp needs to be laid on it’s side for about 30 minutes not connected to anything (I asked) There is a biasing harness and each tube needs to be biased...around 580 mv... and then the other tubes checked as the biasing of one will affect the others. So in order not to possibly screw my back up, I’d want help to put it on the counter and have my friend/neighbor stick around until I’ve set the bias and then help me place it back on the rack. I asked if there’s a warning light telling me if a tube is going south and there isn’t. So it’s a no go... So I’ll take a closer look now at the VTA amps and see if the biasing methodology is similar. At least those amps aren’t as heavy.
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: tmazz on February 03, 2021, 06:44:09 PM
Nick I think you are going to have a hard time finding any stereo tube amp that ar much less than 50 lbs if for no reason other than the required transformers. Maybe you should think of a pair of tube mono blocks. I had a pair of Quicksilver Mid Monos that weighed a little under 30 lbs each. Very easy braising using an adjustment screw and an LED both easily located on the top of the chassis. They were very stable and never gave me any trouble. 40 wpc and under $2k for the pair, brand new. A google search will turn up lots of discussions about them.

They just might check off all of your boxes.

More info here:

https://www.lpgear.com/product/QUICKSILVERMID.html
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: tmazz on February 03, 2021, 06:52:53 PM
If you want to push the envelope a little the Bob Carver 275 is a great little single chassis amp. I heard it at CAF and thought it sounded better than his $9500 350 watt mono blocks.

It puts out 75 wpc and is speced at only 19 lbs (I don’t know how he was able to pull that off, that is Lee’s than most 75w s amps.) Unfortunately at $2750 it is a bit out of your budget, but if you can squeeze a few extra bucks to shed a considerable amount of weight it might be an option.

Info here:

https://jimclarkstereo.com/audioquest-bob-carver-elac-stereo-equipment/Bob-Carver-Crimson-275-Stereo-Vacuum-Tube-Amplifier-p115352773


(It’s so much fun spending other people money.  :D )
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on February 03, 2021, 09:39:58 PM
If you want to push the envelope a little the Bob Carver 275 is a great little single chassis amp. I heard it at CAF and thought it sounded better than his $9500 350 watt mono blocks.

It puts out 75 wpc and is speced at only 19 lbs (I don’t know how he was able to pull that off, that is Lee’s than most 75w s amps.) Unfortunately at $2750 it is a bit out of your budget, but if you can squeeze a few extra bucks to shed a considerable amount of weight it might be an option.

Info here:

https://jimclarkstereo.com/audioquest-bob-carver-elac-stereo-equipment/Bob-Carver-Crimson-275-Stereo-Vacuum-Tube-Amplifier-p115352773


(It’s so much fun spending other people money.  :D )

First off, I am glad that you...and BobM...like the idea of spending my audio 💰  :roll:
I’ve heard of Bob Carver and thought he was quite an older fellow, but a web search set me straight that he’s quite a bit younger. I remember buying my mom one of his integrated amps many years ago, but geez, it did not sound good. I remember his famous amplifier challenge in the 80s that he could duplicate the sound of any expensive amp in 48 hours as I recall.

This 275 amp is amazing in that it is 19 pounds and has such a small footprint. It is easy on the eyes as well, especially since it will reside in my living room. It is easy to bias and he gives a five year guarantee on tubes. There’s a lot to like here and the price really isn’t too bad. I’ll be looking for more info and reviews tonight. Thanks for making me aware of it.
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on February 03, 2021, 10:19:27 PM
Nick I think you are going to have a hard time finding any stereo tube amp that ar much less than 50 lbs if for no reason other than the required transformers. Maybe you should think of a pair of tube mono blocks. I had a pair of Quicksilver Mid Monos that weighed a little under 30 lbs each. Very easy braising using an adjustment screw and an LED both easily located on the top of the chassis. They were very stable and never gave me any trouble. 40 wpc and under $2k for the pair, brand new. A google search will turn up lots of discussions about them.

They just might check off all of your boxes.

More info here:

https://www.lpgear.com/product/QUICKSILVERMID.html

Tom,
I’ve known about Quicksilver and nearly bought his gear years ago. Afaik, it has a reputation for build quality and reliability. I think monos are a great idea, assuming they’ll fit on my rack. The Arion HS 500s that Charles recommended would be fine, but they haven’t sold on the used market in a while. I sent an email to Bob Latino about the VTA ST amps and I hope to talk to him tomorrow. I can’t find info on the weight of those amps and I want to discuss the biasing procedure. I’ll do some reading tonight on the Quicksilvers.
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: tmazz on February 04, 2021, 03:32:11 PM

First off, I am glad that you...and BobM...like the idea of spending my audio 💰  :roll:


Hey, what are friends for.  :thumb:
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on February 04, 2021, 07:31:27 PM
I’ve looked into the Carver Crimson 275 and VTA ST 70 & 120 amps a bit more. It seems that Frank Malitz and EJ Sarmiento bought Carver a couple of years ago and that Bob Carver now does design work for them. It appears the 275 is the first offering and a Carver integrated will be next. The Carver 275 has been getting very favorable comments and has been in demand. I looked at comments from the Steve Hoffman and Audiokarma forums, YouTube etc.  I did recall a couple of comments about transformer buzz and speaker hiss. But one of the forum members suggested to return the amp under warranty. The amp has a meter and biasing is simple 👍  It’s a consideration.

I was able to speak with Bob Latino today about the VTA ST amps. Nice guy..answered all my questions. A couple of things I didn’t care for:
1) the inputs are on the front panel, so I either need to run the ICs under the amp which has only 3/8” clearance or run the ICs around each side and use right angle adapters - if I go underneath, I’d need to raise the height of the amp
2) the power cord is hard-wired and only 2 prong - there isn’t room for an iec connector, but my favorite power cord can be hard-wired
3) he doesn’t offer any other chassis

I can add some upgrades. He has a tech in Arizona who would assemble it. I would never attempt a kit. The weight of both amps is in the mid 30 lb range. It would be a better value than the Carver, although the Carver is reasonably priced. It’s a consideration.
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Jack on February 04, 2021, 08:20:48 PM
Nick

The fact that EJ is one of the owners of the Company now would be a very favorable consideration for me plus the fact that they are now being built in EJ's factory where Rick Cullen also works.  The five year warranty is another bonus.  If you think the power output of the ST-70 is enough for you then I would look at Frank's Ultravalve version of the same circuit.  Were the temperatures in West Florida not a consideration for eight months of the year I would love to give the Carver a try.  I had the Rogue ST-100 here for a couple of months but just couldn't take the heat and couldn't justify keeping it to just be able to use it a couple of months a year.  My little Music Reference RM-10 lets me do tube when I get the urge and it doesn't operate like a space heater and with 35wpc will drive everything I have to reasonably loud levels.
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on February 04, 2021, 09:05:54 PM
Nick

The fact that EJ is one of the owners of the Company now would be a very favorable consideration for me plus the fact that they are now being built in EJ's factory where Rick Cullen also works.  The five year warranty is another bonus.  If you think the power output of the ST-70 is enough for you then I would look at Frank's Ultravalve version of the same circuit.  Were the temperatures in West Florida not a consideration for eight months of the year I would love to give the Carver a try.  I had the Rogue ST-100 here for a couple of months but just couldn't take the heat and couldn't justify keeping it to just be able to use it a couple of months a year.  My little Music Reference RM-10 lets me do tube when I get the urge and it doesn't operate like a space heater and with 35wpc will drive everything I have to reasonably loud levels.

Jack,
I figured you and other guys here would know these names. Certainly is reassuring as to your positive comments. I think I’d be satisfied with the improvement that most of the amps mentioned would offer. I just want to get away from the more analytical sound I’ve lived with so long. I don’t know what to expect from a tube amp. I had the VAC 90s and an RM 9 many years ago and they didn’t utilize that many tubes as I recall. It does get hot in So Utah, but not usually very humid. So I think I’d be fine with a tube amp all year long. I can live with some air conditioning noise and am not one to unplug my refrigerator when I listen. Frank told me he’s about 6 weeks out and Bob said 3-4 weeks. I’ll keep pondering this and also checking HIFI Shark and the usual sites for used gear .
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Jack on February 04, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Based on my Mivera which short of a couple of differences in connectors is the same as your amp the only thing it has in common with Frank's SET amps are that they are both amps.  To my ears using a number of different speakers the SET is a warmer more full bodied amp than the hybrid BHK and even the RM-10. I've only ever seen two SET 400's come up for sale in over a year and both of the belonged to audiojem (Jeff) on AC.  The first one, black, he sold to me and bought the silver to go with his Pass preamp and then when he couldn't get what he wanted for his Pass amps he kept them and sold the silver SET400 too. 
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on February 04, 2021, 10:16:27 PM
Based on my Mivera which short of a couple of differences in connectors is the same as your amp the only thing it has in common with Frank's SET amps are that they are both amps.  To my ears using a number of different speakers the SET is a warmer more full bodied amp than the hybrid BHK and even the RM-10. I've only ever seen two SET 400's come up for sale in over a year and both of the belonged to audiojem (Jeff) on AC.  The first one, black, he sold to me and bought the silver to go with his Pass preamp and then when he couldn't get what he wanted for his Pass amps he kept them and sold the silver SET400 too.

Yes, Frank told me they are hard to find. :roll:  small needle in very big haystack... heck, I’d be fine with a SET 120
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Jack on February 04, 2021, 10:26:12 PM
Unless you play the Carrera's really loud then I think you are probably right and with the price and shipping weight of the SET 120 it's well worth trying it out for 30 days and finding out for yourself.
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on February 04, 2021, 10:50:49 PM
Unless you play the Carrera's really loud then I think you are probably right and with the price and shipping weight of the SET 120 it's well worth trying it out for 30 days and finding out for yourself.

Well, I kinda do play them loud... But the price is right. As you’re so familiar with the Mivera, your comments are a great reference point for me. That black chassis on the SET 120 is still an improvement over the prior ones  :thumb:
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on March 09, 2021, 10:14:31 PM
I found a used AVA SET 120 Control Amp on Agon for a very good price. It’s an absolutely wonderful amp! Resolves better than my iCE amp, great imaging, wonderful improvement in tonality/ textures. Love the richer midrange and that’s exactly what I was hoping for.

I looked at all the suggestions here and price, weight, re-sellability, connector locations etc all factored into it. There was another amp project being considered with a well-known member here, but if it happens, it’ll be a ways off. It would be a super-tweaked tube design.

For now, I’m loving this solid state little marvel  :thumb  Thanks, Jack, for the wonderful recommendation!

Nick
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Jack on March 09, 2021, 10:23:16 PM
Congrats Nick.  I was talking to Fritz this afternoon and he was one too along with the SET 400 that he is using in house.  I suspect my SET 400/Don Sachs combo will be with me for a while. 
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Barry (NJ) on March 31, 2021, 09:08:49 AM
I have no doubt that it’s quite good. I’m just leaning towards not doing another class D...

Nick, FWIW, the Class D amp you currently have is an ICE amp, a repackaged B&O module, maybe with some tweaks by who ever packaged it up. The Cherry amplifiers are a fully independent proprietary design. The Orchard Amps are also a fully independent proprietary design utilizing GaN (Gallium Nitride) transistors, so they are all likely to have fairly different sonic signatures. Just some food for thought before you offhandedly disregard the idea ;)
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on March 31, 2021, 10:04:25 AM
I have no doubt that it’s quite good. I’m just leaning towards not doing another class D...

Nick, FWIW, the Class D amp you currently have is an ICE amp, a repackaged B&O module, maybe with some tweaks by who ever packaged it up. The Cherry amplifiers are a fully independent proprietary design. The Orchard Amps are also a fully independent proprietary design utilizing GaN (Gallium Nitride) transistors, so they are all likely to have fairly different sonic signatures. Just some food for thought before you offhandedly disregard the idea ;)

Hi Barry,
I did end up buying a used AVA SET 120 Control Amp for less than 1k which is a great bargain. It’s a detailed and wonderfully musical amp. I had thought about Leo’s monos and also about some used Arion monos (Charles had recommended them), but the Dueland cap upgrade which I wanted, would have cost me $900. Just way too high a price for that.
As to class D, I’ve also read great things about the Merrills and AGD. Am just very happy right now with my first time purchase of a Van Alstine amp
Nick
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Barry (NJ) on April 01, 2021, 03:21:41 PM
Hi Barry,
I did end up buying a used AVA SET 120 Control Amp for less than 1k which is a great bargain. It’s a detailed and wonderfully musical amp. I had thought about Leo’s monos and also about some used Arion monos (Charles had recommended them), but the Dueland cap upgrade which I wanted, would have cost me $900. Just way too high a price for that.
As to class D, I’ve also read great things about the Merrills and AGD. Am just very happy right now with my first time purchase of a Van Alstine amp
Nick

Excellent! As long as you're happy, it's all good!
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on April 11, 2021, 02:09:11 PM
Hi Doug,
Yes, I bought it used...pretty good price imo. I had been looking for a used regular SET 120 or SET 400, but they’re very hard to find. After I got the control amp version, I found a used SET 400 for a great price....which I would have bought immediately...but it was already gone.

I haven’t tried it via it’s passive pre as I must have remote control with all the streaming, switching albums and fiddling that I do. If I were a vinyl only kinda guy, a motorized remote wouldn’t be at all necessary.

I’d love to try one of your ec’s. I have very little opportunity to try other amps without buying them. I think you’re in California, is that right? My only concern would be the weight. If it’s a 50+ lb beast that I’d have to lift onto the top shelf of my rack, I wouldn’t want to try it. Just had a back injection...

If you would, shoot me a PM with a guesstimate on the weight, box size etc so I can figure out shipping


hi nick,

i got to this thread late; glad you found something you like.   :thumb:  besides suggestions on any specific gear, i was going to suggest that, no matter what you try, you go for something used, as you seemed not to be sure of what you want, and you can try more than one thing w/o taking a bath financially, if you bought new.

re: the unit you got, as they retail for only $1.2k, i hope you paid quite a bit less than $1k!   :mrgreen:

also, curious why you didn't just wait for one w/o the passive pre - it seems you'd get better performance, unless there's a way to totally bypass the pre?  and, since you have it, i'm curious if you've tried it sans your regular preamp.

doug s.
ps - one of the brands i was going to recommend is electrocompaniet - used, of course, at your budget.  and, if you're interested in trying one, i have two aw75dmb's just sitting here; they were doing subwoofer duties, but i picked up a pair of dirt cheap kelmar 150+ monoblocks that are now driving my vmps' quite well.  (actually, i got three, status unknown, for $75 including shipping - which was >50% of the cost!  and one doesn't work, but i need only 2... ;))  in any event, if you're interested in trying one of my ec's, you're more than welcome to; all you need to do is pick up the shipping tab...  not trying to sell 'em; if you like it, you'd have to find another one - ha!

I found a used AVA SET 120 Control Amp on Agon for a very good price. It’s an absolutely wonderful amp! Resolves better than my iCE amp, great imaging, wonderful improvement in tonality/ textures. Love the richer midrange and that’s exactly what I was hoping for.

I looked at all the suggestions here and price, weight, re-sellability, connector locations etc all factored into it. There was another amp project being considered with a well-known member here, but if it happens, it’ll be a ways off. It would be a super-tweaked tube design.

For now, I’m loving this solid state little marvel  :thumb  Thanks, Jack, for the wonderful recommendation!

Nick
Title: Re: amp recommendations
Post by: Nick B on April 11, 2021, 03:56:35 PM
Doug,
I’ll research for a shipping guesstimate. Will send you a pm in a bit
Thx, Nick

nick,

1st, i'm in md, so unfortunately shipping to ut will be more than if i was in ca.  but, the amp weighs 35lbs, so it's no monster size-wise.  it's a standard rackmount width - 19", by 6" high, and 16" deep, which includes its rackmount handles.  it would be well packed, in a box probably ~24x20x10 - at minimum; maybe a coupla add'l inches in any direction.

the aw75dmb is a true dual-mono amp, rated at 75wpc/8 ohms, 140/4 ohms, 220/2 ohms, and stable to >1 ohm.  max current - 80 amps.  yes - 80A; no typo. rated distortion <0.007% at half rated output.  these amps retailed for $2500 over 20 years ago.  i've had one for a bit over 20 years, and the other for a bit under.

pics - not of mine, but just like it:
(https://hifi-inside.com/images/phocagallery/hifi-ht/electrocompaniet/power-amplifier/aw-75-0-electrocompaniet.jpg)
(https://hifi-inside.com/images/phocagallery/hifi-ht/electrocompaniet/power-amplifier/aw-75-0b-electrocompaniet.jpg)
(https://hifi-inside.com/images/phocagallery/hifi-ht/electrocompaniet/power-amplifier/aw-75-1c-electrocompaniet.jpg)
(https://hifi-inside.com/images/phocagallery/hifi-ht/electrocompaniet/power-amplifier/aw-75-3-electrocompaniet.jpg)

pm me w/shipping details if you're still wanting to hear it.  ec's rep in  a nutshell is solid state grip and detail w/tube-like smoothness.

doug s.
Hi Doug,
Yes, I bought it used...pretty good price imo. I had been looking for a used regular SET 120 or SET 400, but they’re very hard to find. After I got the control amp version, I found a used SET 400 for a great price....which I would have bought immediately...but it was already gone.

I haven’t tried it via it’s passive pre as I must have remote control with all the streaming, switching albums and fiddling that I
do. If I were a vinyl only kinda guy, a motorized remote wouldn’t be at all necessary.

I’d love to try one of your ec’s. I have very little opportunity to try other amps without buying them. I think you’re in California, is that right? My only concern would be the weight. If it’s a 50+ lb beast that I’d have to lift onto the top shelf of my rack, I wouldn’t want to try it. Just had a back injection...

If you would, shoot me a PM with a guesstimate on the weight, box size etc so I can figure out shipping

Nick