AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Amplification and Preamplification => Tubes => Topic started by: Bigfish8 on November 16, 2007, 01:27:52 PM
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I have waited many weeks, not too patiently, for NOS Mullard 12AU7 tubes to arrive from Andy of Vintage Tubes. I really believed he had lost the order but to my total surprise the tubes arrived this week. The tubes came packaged extremely well and I think that FedEx would have had to crush the box to damage the tubes. :clap:
I rolled the Mullards into the Candela after listening to a few of may favorite tunes with the Amperex Bugle Boys in place. The Amperex Tubes were a significant improvement over the stock JJTeslers and I really like them. Initial reaction to the Mullards are that the Timepieces are not as bright or forward sounding and the midrange has a fuller, warmer sound. I am very happy as I think I have finally found the sound I have been searching for from this system. :beer:
While browsing Steve Hoffman's forum a few days ago I read where Grover's favorite tubes are NOS Mullards, especially with speakers which have a tendancy to be a little bright. As I continue to listen the change in the sound is almost as significant as when I first plugged in the Burson Buffer. I think I am experiencing first hand why people like tubes as you can tailor the sound of your system by rolling tubes. :D/
Ken
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Ken - Really glad to hear you're finding some changes that get your system dialed in the way you wanted. You have a lot of great stuff, but it takes a little work and patience to get it all working together. As they say, "season to taste". The tube front end is great for that. I'm still using the clear tops that came with mine, so keep us posted as you get more time on the Mullards! Tom
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Congrats Ken! You've finally reached a plateau where you can relax for a minute and enjoy all your hard work. Buying the stuff is easy, getting it sound good requires a lot of effort and learning, (and more buying stuff :roll:) and that's what the hobby is all about, to me anyway! I bet it sounds awesome now!
You know when we heard your speakers at myhouse, they were with my tube gear which is slanted the opposite way to suit my slightly laid back speakers. GT EL34, RCA clear tops, Grover wires, etc, all on the detailish side, I kinda liked it myself, but the midrange detail was extremely intense :drool:. Mullards/amperex are too slow in my system, for my everyday taste, but even so I admit they do have a certain sexy fatness that is fun in my system too.
Cool!!
Rich
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Guys:
I really like the Candela but I wish it were made so it would be easier to roll tubes. I have disconnect everything, pull the Candela out of the stand, remove four screws and slide the top back to access the tubes. I guess you can't have everything! :roll:
Ken
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Guys:
I really like the Candela but I wish it were made so it would be easier to roll tubes. I have disconnect everything, pull the Candela out of the stand, remove four screws and slide the top back to access the tubes. I guess you can't have everything! :roll:
Ken
Ken,
Mullards will ease the pain. Great choice for your sysyem, good luck. Andy is certainly one of a kind but you will always get thereal deal and best available. Bugle boys as you found out can have a forward and bright presentation in some systems. They don't call em Bugles for nothing.
Now about that equipment undressing, its takes some effort before climax. Whats a few buttons OOPs I mean screws.
rollo
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ken, you have to remove four screws? i have to remove eleven screws to roll tubes in my belles preamp :rofl:
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ken, you have toremove four screws? i have to remove eleven screws to roll tubes in my belles preamp :rofl:
Don't you think it would be nice to have a little customized window to allow easy tube changes? Well, now that I have the Mullards in place maybe I won't be rolling tubes for awhile. :D/
Ken
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Forget the screws I have 20 tubes now used to be 48. Thats mucho rolling. I used to leave the covers off.
rollo
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There is actually someone on AC who put the Candela in a custom wood case with two holes drilled on top for the tubes as well as a holder for extras :)
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Forget the screws I have 20 tubes now used to be 48. Thats mucho rolling. I used to leave the covers off.
rollo
Rollo:
It is really amazing how much tube changes "flavor" the sound. I could envision wanting different flavors of tubes depending your mood and type of music. It is certainly a nice tool to have available and I think I will be talking with my handy neighbor to cook up something to make tube changes easier. Thanks for the comment Tom as my neighbor is a cabinet maker.
Ken
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If you use a wood top, it would be way less ringy too. You could kill two birds with one board, or something like that.
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(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/rosconey65/topandfront.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/rosconey65/topandsideview.jpg)
AS KLAUS WOULD SAY-HEHEHEH-just dont look to close,i made it in about 2 hours from start to first coat of tung oil
i can change tubes in no time-
i tried brimars and didnt like them so much i never have had any interest in euro tubes-klaus likes mullards i guess
my newest best is the raytheon windmill getter-these have enormous sound stage
also do your self a favor and try some of the cheap "organ" tubes on ebay- you might be surprised
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(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/rosconey65/topandfront.jpg)
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o212/rosconey65/topandsideview.jpg)
AS KLAUS WOULD SAY-HEHEHEH-just dont look to close,i made it in about 2 hours from start to first coat of tung oil
i can change tubes in no time-
i tried brimars and didnt like them so much i never have had any interest in euro tubes-klaus likes mullards i guess
my newest best is the raytheon windmill getter-these have enormous sound stage
also do your self a favor and try some of the cheap "organ" tubes on ebay- you might be surprised
Awesome! Thanks for the tip on the "organ tubes."
Ken
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rosconey, that is awesome.
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Very impressive in deed. Nice job. Send a picture to Klaus, he may want one.
rollo
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My buddy Rosconey owns the 1st Candela ever made. it was one of two prototypes built by Alex G at Odyssey that was tweaked and tested extensively before it was put on the market. Rosconey's Candela was the one chosen out of the two prototypes to become the Candela.Production Candela's have three knobs on the front, the 1st one being the power switch, the 2nd being the input selector and the third being the volume.Rosconey's Candela has the selector and volume on the front and the power on the back!
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ken, you have to remove four screws? i have to remove eleven screws to roll tubes in my belles preamp :rofl:
I simply leave the top off my Audio Mirrror PP1 preamp. :D
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ken, you have to remove four screws? i have to remove eleven screws to roll tubes in my belles preamp :rofl:
I simply leave the top off my Audio Mirrror PP1 preamp. :D
[/quote
I think I am going to leave the top of the Candela the next time I want to roll tubes. :yay2:
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got my mullards today -am running them right now-they arent broken in yet -so far i like the raytheon windmill getters better
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after a weekend of playing-i must say these are nice tubes-nothing like the brimars i tried-
they arent great at anything,but they also dont do anything bad-just a real nice sound -
i will still give the windmill getters a slight advantage for soundstage and body
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Which specific vintage and getter type Mullard did you get?
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cv4003 are the tubes-dont have any clue about the getter they are installed and i cant see them-
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I have a pair of the Mullard CV4003's too.These tubes have short plates and were made for the British Military.They have a Great midrange and they are somewhat rolled off at the top and bottom
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I have a pair of the Mullard CV4003's too.These tubes have short plates and were made for the British Military.They have a Great midrange and they are somewhat rolled off at the top and bottom
I agree 100%.
rollo
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i have found that the brimar 13d5 has the midrange of the mullard with greater extension.
also raytheon triple mica black plates 12au7's are great.
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I have heard the CV vintage Mullard before it was OK. It depends on your personal taste and synergy in your system. To find out the getter configuration just turn the tube upside down and look in the top usually hidden by the getter flash.
This is all in my humble opinion:
Try the Mullard 10M Gold Pin ECC82. I really think it is among the best.
Another Mullard to try is K61 Longplate, it is a little warm but very nice
50's Raytheon blackplate sq getter are very good as well.
I have had great luck with these. The 50's and early 60's sq getter Brimar stuff is very good as well.
Good luck
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i didnt like the brimars at all when i had a pair
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It's such a matter of preference. I had some Mullards in my pre (AT and AU) and thought them slow and mushy in the bottom end and rolled off at the top. In my system for my preferene, I settled on 50's vintage RCA Blackplates. Enough euphony in the mids, sweet top end, but still kept the bottom end right.
To each their own.
As the saying goes "Ya pays yer money and takes yer chances"
Bryan
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I tend to agree with the general statement regarding Mullards. I have 2 pairs of premium Mullards sitting in box, that I think are slow and dark. But the two I listed are not the run of the mill Mullards. Do a search and see what other opinions are.
I have not heard the 13DBrimar. The Brimar tubes I heard were from the 50's.
FWIW, I found that you can not lump the general tube sound of a given Manufacture as was quite difficult to follow trail of date codes,Plants and farming out of tubes rebranded.
Also Tube Dampers from Herbie help significantly.
Good Luck
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The really nice thing about tubes is that you can flavor your system by rolling in different brands of tubes. To me my pair of Timepiece Speakers are a little bright and forward sounding. I also found them to be lean in the midrange. I tried stock JJ Teslers, Amperex Bugle Boys, Telefunkens and finally the Mullards. I am confident that many reading this post would have preferred one of the other brands but I found I really enjoyed the music more with the Mullards. The Mullards have now been in the preamp since I received them and I have no inclination to roll anything else.
Ken
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Hi Ken,
Have you tried rolling with Tungsram 12AU7s yet? IMO I prefer Tungsram's sweetness over Mullard NOS.
Tan
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Hi Ken,
Have you tried rolling with Tungsram 12AU7s yet? IMO I prefer Tungsram's sweetness over Mullard NOS.
Tan
Hello Tan:
I have been out of the audio picture for approximately a month as I was only obtaining a hum (no sound at all) from my preamp. I sent it back to AlexG of Odyssey and he determined the problem to be oxidized tube pins. Unfortunately, I did not know that I needed to clean the pins with a deoxidit and then polish them with a contact enhancer. Anyway, the wife tells me the preamp is back home and I am looking forward to getting back home and listening to some tunes.
Until I read your message I had not even heard of Tungsram 12AU7 Tubes. I will have to put them on my list to try. Also, why I was talking with Alex he recommend the new JJ 802s which are the long plate version of the standard 12au7. He claims they are darn good and reasonably priced!
Take Care,
Ken
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Wow, Ken... those must have been the dirtiest pins in the world! :shock:
It has not been my experience that dirty pins cause a preamp to hum with no other sound.
-C
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Wow, Ken... those must have been the dirtiest pins in the world! :shock:
It has not been my experience that dirty pins cause a preamp to hum with no other sound.
-C
Carl,
It happened to my tube amp before. I did not get a hum but a buzzing sound and sometimes no sound at all. It was the dirtiest tube socket (one only) I ever had. I thought my tube was kaput but I got solution from my friend by cleaning it with deoxidit.
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I had no idea we were such a dirty bunch! ;)
:lol:
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On tube power amps were have a B+ fuse which when blown stops the music, but the hum can still be heard. I wonder if such a fuse is in your preamp? It is good to have you back Ken, I was wondering what happened to you!
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Wow, Ken... those must have been the dirtiest pins in the world! :shock:
It has not been my experience that dirty pins cause a preamp to hum with no other sound.
-C
Carl:
I was totally shocked when Alex called me and told me what he had found to be the problem with my preamp. I played the system on a Monday before I left home. When I returned on Friday I turned the system on and after warm-up all I got was a hum (volume controlled) in the right speaker. I changed tubes from Mullards to Amperex and with no change in the hum (no sound but hum). I spoke with AlexG on Saturday and he was able to hear the hum through the telephone and said send the preamp back to him.
After receiving the preamp Alex called me and reported that the preamp was now working fine. He said he cleaned the tube pins with deoxit and then polished the pins with a contact enhancer. Alex also told me that the pins on the JJ Teslers slightly larger in diameter than the pins on the European NOS Tubes. Therefore, he claims I need to be very careful when rolling tubes to ensure the pins are seated well and making contact.
Anyway, I learned from the experience and will not, I repeat will not, roll tubes without cleaning the tube pins and polishing them with a contact enhancer. I, having an engineering background, prefer to have an explanation why the Mullards worked fine for 2.5 months and then suddenly I get the hum. The only things I can think of are that I moved the preamp in cleaning it and possibly the room experienced colder temps that week because it was the only cold spell we have had. Other than those two things all I did was turn the unit on and off.
Oh well, I hope it works well when I get back home tomorrow night!
Ken