AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Amplification and Preamplification => Tubes => Topic started by: Bigfish8 on December 04, 2009, 04:29:34 AM
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As some of you know I like tubes and while I have yet to own a tube amp I feel it is just a matter of time. The reason behind this post is I have read and heard the term used, "Roll tubes for Tone Control." I have rolled my share of tubes in the past two+ years and I don't agree with the term. Changing tubes in my ModWright Modified Transporter and in my Mapletree Preamp have a dramatic impact on the sound of my system. Different tubes can make the system go from not enjoyable to ah!, I that's what I want to hear. Several of us attending the recent G2G over at Carl's heard this impact with tubes rolled into the 22A.
Call it "Tone Control" if you will but I think the bigger picture is that tube gear does present challenges from the standpoint that rolling tubes have such an impact on the sound. Take me for example, I have rolled several different 6SN7 tubes through the Transporter and Mapletree to find the current blends. I guess owning tubes is like have money in the bank but when it comes time to upgrade my preamp I suspect I will lean toward something that uses the 6SN7 tubes.
I got a little off topic but would be interested in hearing your comments about tube rolling and how you view the impact of different tubes.
Ken
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I like tubes that turn up the bass and treble all the way. :yay2:
I like new production tubes, especially Chinese, better than the oldie vintage tubes because they are clear and clean, very low distortion with a trace of warmth. 1970s tubes are starting to come alive for me, but 40s and 50s are usually too veiled and distorted. I don't believe the wives tale that metallurgy was better back then. But is an effective tone control on top and bottom.
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Metallurgy wasn't better.. but they had to depend on tubes in the 40's and 50's.. so they actually cared when they made them. Can you hear 'care'? I can. ;) But I do admit some of that can be pyschological.
But yes, as you heard at my place.. the 22A that Shane brought went from a thin, etched sound to a full, flowing and melodic sound as we changed tubes twice. Was that tone control? no. Tone is effected but it's only one type of change in a plethora of others.
In my preamp (21A) I arrived at a tube that sounded 'magical' to me, in my room/system. It's a lot more than tone at play. If I put a resistor on my tweeters, will it still be as magical? Maybe not.. but we'll see! I'd like my system to be less hot in the highs.. a problem I've fought for a long time... with other speakers and amps.. just seems like most speakers are tipped up for some reason... or my ears are too sensitive there.
-C
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Carl and Rich, I believe we are in agreement that tubes do make a substantial difference to the sound of a system. I like the ability to alter the sound by simply rolling tubes versus being stuck with what the manufacturer supplies. The only down-side is that the better the tube, the more popular it is, therefore the more it will cost. :duh
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I'd like my system to be less hot in the highs.. a problem I've fought for a long time... with other speakers and amps.. just seems like most speakers are tipped up for some reason... or my ears are too sensitive there.
I'm the same way, I don't like aggresive high freqs. I like tubes for this reason - they are extended and clear, but they are gentle, like real music. The highs are "right." You can try a little digital EQ in your foobar to see if a resistor would please.
The price of good tubes from China is ridiculous. They can make a cadillac over there for $15. There is no reason in hell that a 300B should cost $325 each. They get it because vintage tubes that sound worse cost more. The market will pay.
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"As some of you know I like tubes and while I have yet to own a tube amp I feel it is just a matter of time."
Ken, as you know most folks say the best combo is tube pre and SS amp. But if you can get the right tube amp with some low end grunt, you got something special. That said, some tubes are simply better with the low end muscle control. The AR 6550 were pretty impressive, in my system. The mids and highs lacking. EL34 great with mids and highs, but not the low end. I finally settled on the KT88 which gives me the best of both worlds.
As far as rolling tubes as tone controls go, I agree with you. I never thought of tubes rolling as tone controls. I could make the same arguments for changing any component in my system or even wires for that matter. I have discovered that everything affects the sound even the mood and attitude.
Henry
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Metallurgy wasn't better.. but they had to depend on tubes in the 40's and 50's.. so they actually cared when they made them. Can you hear 'care'? I can. ;) But I do admit some of that can be psychological.
But yes, as you heard at my place.. the 22A that Shane brought went from a thin, etched sound to a full, flowing and melodic sound as we changed tubes twice. Was that tone control? no. Tone is effected but it's only one type of change in a plethora of others.
In my preamp (21A) I arrived at a tube that sounded 'magical' to me, in my room/system. It's a lot more than tone at play. If I put a resistor on my tweeters, will it still be as magical? Maybe not.. but we'll see! I'd like my system to be less hot in the highs.. a problem I've fought for a long time... with other speakers and amps.. just seems like most speakers are tipped up for some reason... or my ears are too sensitive there.
-C
Beware of metal tweeters and digital or SS. A resistor may have more benefit than you think. The Maggies allow for attenuation of the tweeter by using resistors. Experimenting with different values proved that one could adjust the sound dramatically. Then tried different manfs of resistors different but not as evident than changing values. Have fun trying
charles