AudioNervosa
Electro Stimulation Ward => Signals and Noise => Topic started by: rollo on February 24, 2014, 08:00:11 AM
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Well well well. Say it isn't so but it is. After hearing the difference with the same wire only difference being the connecters I am convinced.
Rhodium plated copper, All Copper, All silver and gold plated copper all sounded different. I'm still shaking my head in the difference. Like a tone control for goodness sake. :shock:
Which connecters you ask. Not saying yet.
charles
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I agree, the connectors on cables are very important. :thumb: Any kind of cable too, not just power, although they seem to have a greater effect on power and single ended ic cables.
As far as material, I would go with gold or rhodium plating as other options require maintenance and I don't want to have cables whose connectors corrode over time.
I also agree cables can be like tone controls but it's not a great way to accomplish the task imo... the further you stray from a "neutral" sound the more issues you get in turn. I think neutrality and maximum detail is a good goal to shoot for in cables... avoiding any sort of harshness of course.
Now it is true that a detailed and neutral cable is not the best sounding in some systems, good cables will reveal issues that the owner of the system may not want to hear. ;)
My speaker cables are a good example, they are neutral and accurate to a fault and they just can't be used in a system that isn't dialed in or they will allow you to hear things you may not want to hear... in a very good system they will open up all sorts of details and remove quite a bit of distortion. The better the system the better the feedback I get.
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Perfect timing Charles, now that we all agree that power cables don't make a difference ...
:duh aa
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Charles all of the RCA plugs were identical in design, only the metallurgy used between the plugs was different?
If this is the case, I am not surprised that you can hear differences in a system with enough resolution.
Which type did you prefer?
Scotty
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Heard the same cables. It's not a matter of preference, it is a matter of synergy. These would all be considered "premium" plugs, but the nature of their sound is noticeably different from one another.
Rhodium - I call this the new "loudness" button, because it tends to emphasize the top and bottom ends, slightly recessing the mids. Bottom is tight and punchy. Top could possibly be a bit too forward in the wrong system. But if your system leans more toward an overall roundness or plumminess this might be just the ticket to bring it into a more modern sound. The perfect plug for a sub IMO.
Silver - This is a detail and air monster, but not with any loss of texture. In fact even more texture than a standard copper plug. Very even presentation top to bottom. However, this is not your standard silver coated copper plug, it is a full silver tong, and as such is very soft (and pricy). I loved the sound of this on digital.
Rose Copper/Gold/Silver - This is very similar to the standard copper plug, but just more of everything, in a good way. I can't find any fault with this plug at all. It just draws you in and makes everything ahhhhhhh.
Of course, YMMV, and as I said, it's all about the synergy with different components> The choice of which one to use where is really about what you might believe the shortcomings of a particular component might be.
Does that mean these are tone controls? Yeah, maybe. I think of them more as tuning devices to bring the best out of a particular component. But one size definitely does not fit all.
Don't get me wrong. These are all "premium" plugs on a premium cable, and each improves on the stock copper connector, but in different ways. What is surprising is that each is "top shelf" and "SOTA" and each just sounds different from the other in meaningful ways.
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Charles all of the RCA plugs were identical in design, only the metallurgy used between the plugs was different?
If this is the case, I am not surprised that you can hear differences in a system with enough resolution.
Which type did you prefer?
Scotty
Scotty Not RCA but power cord plug and IEC. The silver and all copper are the same construction. Preferred silver in CDP and Uberbuss.
The other plugs are of a different casing material so hard to say.
As a complete cord design used in the power conditioner [ Uberbuss ] the Rhodium was favored.
My point here is not the overall outcome as synergy plays an important role as we all know.
The point is they sound different using the same wire. Just never thought sonics would be affected. A lower noise floor maybe expected however when the sonics changed it blew my mind.
BTW good to see you posting again. We miss your input.
charles
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I haven't had too much to say and lately Richidoo has been channeling me quite effectively. I purchased one of the last MS-2 dedicated audio computers that HAL built and have been enjoying the sonic improvement that it has brought to my system.
As far as powercords are concerned I have to admit I am somewhat baffled by some of the results I have had.
I borrowed a XLO power-cord a while back from a friend to try on my phono stage and while it increased the dynamic contrast it also changed the sound-stage rather dramatically and not for the better. I had not heard the sound-stage altered by any previous power-cords and this was quite unexpected.
Scotty
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Dave,
Since you are using the UPOCC materials for wire, I was wondering if there are UPOCC RCA's or can the process only be used for wire?
Nick
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Hi Nick, Yes, connectors are made using UPOCC copper by Neotech, Furutech and Oyaide.
I think rhodium plated UPOCC copper connectors are the way to go in general, though not appropriate for all applications and all systems. Rhodium is more accurate that gold plating although it can be too forward and edgy in the wrong system.
edit: although synergy and an open mind are key... my ICs use Furutech's filament type center pin instead of UPOCC copper and those connectors are better with gold plating.
BobM, is rose gold plating the gold/silver/copper alloy on the valabs?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-Rose-Gold-Plated-Copper-Carbon-Housing-IEC-Female-Power-Cord-Plug-ap1-/291081447425 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-Rose-Gold-Plated-Copper-Carbon-Housing-IEC-Female-Power-Cord-Plug-ap1-/291081447425)
If so, I'm not surprised an alloy would be better than pure gold plating, pure gold is really not accurate in much the same way poor quality copper is not accurate.
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Hi Bob
On which equipment have you or would you normally put power cords with Rhodium plugs or the Silver connectors on?
I'm most familiar with SonarQuest connectors. I've used the Rose Copper and Gold versions on my tube preamps and HT processor. They have quite the strong grip on either end and I agree with your assessment of their sonic impact. My HT experience got more enjoyable with a Belden 83803 cord terminated with Rose Copper SonarQuest ends.
Due to this discussion I'm now looking at these plugs to try on some stock 14AWG power cords that are fully broken in.
SONARQUEST Silver Plated US NEMA Power Plug & IEC Connector
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTIyWDEwMDA=/$(KGrHqV,!jcE9KeHkWd6BPgQg!n4lQ~~60_12.JPG)
and
SONARQUEST Rhodium Plated US NEMA Power Plug & IEC Connector
(http://i.ebayimg.com/12/!CF(krYQEWk~$(KGrHqIOKj4E0tlsWurHBNU1YEQJsw~~_12.JPG)
I may try one on the source and one on a preamp first. Don't know about changing the cable to my amp as I'm happy with how things sound now.
Heard the same cables. It's not a matter of preference, it is a matter of synergy. These would all be considered "premium" plugs, but the nature of their sound is noticeably different from one another.
Rhodium - I call this the new "loudness" button, because it tends to emphasize the top and bottom ends, slightly recessing the mids. Bottom is tight and punchy. Top could possibly be a bit too forward in the wrong system. But if your system leans more toward an overall roundness or plumminess this might be just the ticket to bring it into a more modern sound. The perfect plug for a sub IMO.
Silver - This is a detail and air monster, but not with any loss of texture. In fact even more texture than a standard copper plug. Very even presentation top to bottom. However, this is not your standard silver coated copper plug, it is a full silver tong, and as such is very soft (and pricy). I loved the sound of this on digital.
Rose Copper/Gold/Silver - This is very similar to the standard copper plug, but just more of everything, in a good way. I can't find any fault with this plug at all. It just draws you in and makes everything ahhhhhhh.
Of course, YMMV, and as I said, it's all about the synergy with different components> The choice of which one to use where is really about what you might believe the shortcomings of a particular component might be.
Does that mean these are tone controls? Yeah, maybe. I think of them more as tuning devices to bring the best out of a particular component. But one size definitely does not fit all.
Don't get me wrong. These are all "premium" plugs on a premium cable, and each improves on the stock copper connector, but in different ways. What is surprising is that each is "top shelf" and "SOTA" and each just sounds different from the other in meaningful ways.
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Hi Nick, Yes, connectors are made using UPOCC copper by Neotech, Furutech and Oyaide.
I think rhodium plated UPOCC copper connectors are the way to go in general, though not appropriate for all applications and all systems. Rhodium is more accurate that gold plating although it can be too forward and edgy in the wrong system.
edit: although synergy and an open mind are key... my ICs use Furutech's filament type center pin instead of UPOCC copper and those connectors are better with gold plating.
BobM, is rose gold plating the gold/silver/copper alloy on the valabs?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-Rose-Gold-Plated-Copper-Carbon-Housing-IEC-Female-Power-Cord-Plug-ap1-/291081447425 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-Rose-Gold-Plated-Copper-Carbon-Housing-IEC-Female-Power-Cord-Plug-ap1-/291081447425)
If so, I'm not surprised an alloy would be better than pure gold plating, pure gold is really not accurate in much the same way poor quality copper is not accurate.
Thanks, Dave
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Sleepyguy,
The only suggestion I can make is ... you really need to try any variation on all equipment. Unfortunately one cord does not fit all. It is a trial and error game in my experience.
Then, just when you think you found the perfect cord for one component, you need to reexamine the cord choices for the other components. Because changing one thing changes the character of the whole system, and what used to work in one place could possibly be improved on after the change.
Tedious, but then again, isn't this kind of playing part of what this hobby is all about? We are definitely not the "set it and forget it" crowd around here.
:thumb:
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As far as conductivity is concerned Rhodium is at the bottom of the list. Silver then copper.
Putting conductivity aside for the moment why do these different materials have such an influence on sonics , sound stage and bass ?
Could it be the impedance ? Resistance ? Inductance ? All of the above ?
charles
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Hi Bob
Thanks for the reply. I kind of knew you were going to say what you were going to say. I was hoping for a different outcome. I'm kind of trying to get to set it and forget it mode but it seems like that isn't possible sometimes. If I get the different Sonarquest plugs and try them in different tests I'll share the results here.
Sleepyguy,
The only suggestion I can make is ... you really need to try any variation on all equipment. Unfortunately one cord does not fit all. It is a trial and error game in my experience.
Then, just when you think you found the perfect cord for one component, you need to reexamine the cord choices for the other components. Because changing one thing changes the character of the whole system, and what used to work in one place could possibly be improved on after the change.
Tedious, but then again, isn't this kind of playing part of what this hobby is all about? We are definitely not the "set it and forget it" crowd around here.
:thumb:
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Well according to the Sonarquest webpage they say the sonic result is warm and sweet meaning colored.
So if that works out in ones scheme of things give it a go. Agreed that one size does not fit all. Nothing is the "best" just different.
My Plinius CDP is colored on the warm side of neutral so liking the all silver plug best. For the Uberbuss liking the Furutech Rhodium.
The issue with DIY is the cost of the plugs. Meaning buying several to compare.
After using the same wire and just different plugs it has proved to me anyway that the plug is critical to the end result more than the wire used. There is more to the plug than the material of blades. how the wire is secured to plug can also have a big affect. Soldered, screw down and crimped or cold soldered wire connections all affect the sonics. For me zero solder.
Back to rhodium for a moment. IMO it depends what material is plated with Rhodium. Bronze, copper, alloy. Never liked Rhodium over copper before over bronze another story.
charles
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Relating to this subject, can ya'll recommend an IEC female connection? I'm hoping to have on installed in my Accuphase C11 pre-amp. Presently it is hard wired.
Don
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Relating to this subject, can ya'll recommend an IEC female connection? I'm hoping to have on installed in my Accuphase C11 pre-amp. Presently it is hard wired.
Don
Hey Don,
Furutech Gold... I have one in stock if you want it...
Pete
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Technically it's a male... The metal conductors stick out, even though they are down inside the plastic housing. Same with XLRs.
This is what I use for most of my projects. I like that it has a 5x20mm fuse built in, solder tabs with big holes, screw mount, and it can be mounted in the panel from the front or rear depending on how clean I cut the hole.
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=6200.2300virtualkey69300000virtualkey693-6200.2300 (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=6200.2300virtualkey69300000virtualkey693-6200.2300)
I'm sure Furutech, et. al. have fancier versions available.