AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Speakers => Topic started by: rollo on June 23, 2013, 06:43:41 AM
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Some like spiking the speakers to the floor some decouple from floor.
Does it depend on the floor? Basm't concrete slab vs wood or carpet on a suspended floor [ meaning basic floor constr.] ?
Wood a plinth of big mass sitting on the floor add any advantage ?
Thoughts ???
charles
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IMO the type of floor makes all the difference.
My experience is with a suspended wood floor (13 x 18', thick wall-to-wall carpet) which I have braced from the basement below (2 x 12 foot 4x4s running below the floor joists, supported by 4 adjustable basement-column thingies, as well as other tweaks like silicone caulking of all joist/subfloor intersections).
This bracing has made a tremendous improvement in SQ and was great for the TT.
However I could still easily perceive that the bass from my spiked Von Schweickert VR4JRs was being "drilled into" the floor, resulting in peaky, inconsistent bass across those frequencies.
As I was thinking about ways to improve isolation I came across the Auralex Gramma platforms, which were very similar to what I was planning in my head. During a Rave I enlisted the help of youse guys to put the speaks up on the platforms and there was universal praise for the major SQ enhancement and I haven't thought of removing the platforms since.
Taking the floor (mostly? who knows how much...) out of the SQ equation was a major improvement for me in my system and I would highly recommend this product for isolation, WAF and speaker geometry permitting.
The changes wrought by worrying out my floor/speaker interaction were massive.
I'm jelly of you concrete slab guys... :rofl:
-Mike
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Mike
When you placed the platforms under your speakers, did you leave the spikes in place or remove them and let the flat bottoms of the speakers rest directly on the Auralex bases?
Thanks!
SN
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Left the spikes on - I don't think I ever tried them without come to think of it. Maybe I should...
-Mike
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Left the spikes on - I don't think I ever tried them without come to think of it. Maybe I should...
-Mike
Let me know if you do. :thumb:
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I'm on concrete and prefer isolation to coupling. I think no matter how well you couple, you'll get some type of ringing/feed-back. Decouple the speaker from the floor, and any sound created by coupling the two is eliminated.
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At my rave I had some "Strange Attractors' , decoupling devices that were made by Spiral Groove. They were made for my speakers with 8mm threads to screw directly into my speakers instead of the spikes.
I had played with decoupling before and much prefer it to spikes.
These strange attractors decoupled the floor from the equation, the result was much cleaner sound all the way up to the tweeter.
What was left was a much richer and harmonically complete sound. I lost a little high end energy and speakers had to be repositioned to regain soundstage, but what was left was pure music. I sent them back because i could not afford them(800 bucks) and needed other components first.
If you are looking to try something I strongly recommend these, one day, they will be back in my system, I miss them that much.
You might want to try removing your spikes altogether, you can get some pretty good sound that way,may not work in all systems but give it a try. In my system it tended to loosen things up a bit, bass became a bit looser but the mids and highs benefited a bit, becoming a bit more relaxed and pleasant. Of course this goes against everything we audiophiles believe, but we are a brainwashed lot preaching as gospel what we read somewhere else.
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Interesting results. I wonder what the true science/physics might be behind this?
To my mind6 making the cabinet of a cone speaker as inert and unmoving as possible would be the hypothetical goal. The pistonic motion of the cones should be done on an unmoving baffle and I would think that takes mass and a stable platform.
But you guys say decoupling sounded best, and decoupling means that there is something squishy and moveable between the speaker and the floor. Or it might possibly mean that coupling to your floors resulted in more micro-movement, or perhaps the inclusion of the floor as a radiator of bass vibrations which would cause a smearing of sorts.
Just curious.
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Mike, Bill I use the Auralex under my sub to great affect. Excellent product. I believe they make a smaller pair for bookshelf speakers.
Would think that the floor material and or construction of such may determine what method to use.
When we put the speakers on carpeted floor spiking always improved the mids and especially the bass. My basement floor has wool carpet over 7/8 marine plywood resting on 2x3 sleepers sitting on concrete slab.
Always wanted to try Herbies carpet thingies any experience out there. Tried the Pon-tunes under the Soundfields and was impressed, however not a very stable deal. Afraid my dog would knock them over. The results were tighter everything especially bass. Midrange clarity was much improved. Not safe though to bad.
Would the ultimate be attaching the speaker base directly to the slab adding mass ?
There has to be some science behind this. Professor Richidoo ?? Scoty ???
charles
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I too wonder about the Herbies and would like to hear some real world results if anyone has them.
Always wanted to try Herbies carpet thingies any experience out there.
There has to be some science behind this. Professor Richidoo ?? Scoty ???
charles
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Man.. Now I'm thoroughly confused again. With my subwoofers I've put them an Auralex Gramma or an Auralex Subdude and the improvement was very noticeable. Bass was a cleaner and I wasn't feeling floor vibrations as much. Now with my KEF 104/2 speakers what I've done is replace the stock feet with 4 Edensound Big Fat Bastards (their version of the Mapleshade tri-points). I then put all that on top of 2" thick Myrtlewood platforms that had larger carpet piercing spikes. This whole thing put the tweeters and mids at a height I liked. The other benefit I found was there was limited interaction between the music and the floor. I guess this is speaker coupling? I'm not sure anymore.
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I think Bob is right on both counts. A suspended floor is like a giant cone. It only has to move in sympathy with the loudspeaker by .001" and it will be loud enough to color the sound. Decoupling speaker platforms like Auralex reduce the amplitude and Q of the vibrations transmitted to and from the floor.
The moving loudspeaker cones cause the cabinet to move, which dulls transients. This is how spikes work, they give better stability so it is physically harder to rock than a carpet.
Bracing the floor below the speaker, where possible, is ideal because it kills both birds: It completely prevents the floor from vibrating under the speaker, while also eliminating compliant isolation pads which allow rocking.
These footers always intrigued me, but they won't ship to N. America.
http://www.sonicdesign.se/sdfeet.html (http://www.sonicdesign.se/sdfeet.html)
Edit: Sleepy: There are sonic advantages to each approach. You'll have to experiment with both, taking notes and allowing time for your brain to adjust to each change so the stimulation of "change" does not affect your judgement.
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Auralex under my T5 Rel Subwoofer works great on my carpeted floor.
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Mike, Bill I use the Auralex under my sub to great affect. Excellent product. I believe they make a smaller pair for bookshelf speakers.
Would think that the floor material and or construction of such may determine what method to use.
When we put the speakers on carpeted floor spiking always improved the mids and especially the bass. My basement floor has wool carpet over 7/8 marine plywood resting on 2x3 sleepers sitting on concrete slab.
Always wanted to try Herbies carpet thingies any experience out there. Tried the Pon-tunes under the Soundfields and was impressed, however not a very stable deal. Afraid my dog would knock them over. The results were tighter everything especially bass. Midrange clarity was much improved. Not safe though to bad.
Would the ultimate be attaching the speaker base directly to the slab adding mass ?
There has to be some science behind this. Professor Richidoo ?? Scoty ???
charles
Charles
I have Herbies "Gliders" under my spiked Von Schweikerts. I honestly can't say there was much of a sonic difference, but they certainly make 150lbs. of speaker move around a lot easier on my tile floor than before!
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/spkrfeet.htm
I think mine are the Stainless Steel ones.
SN
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http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue62/spiralgroove_attractors.htm (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue62/spiralgroove_attractors.htm)
these worked wonders under my speakers
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I have always gone with: if the floor is solid underneath the speaker, concert slab etc, couple the speaker with spikes or something similar. If you are on a suspended floor (basement or another floor or crawl space underneath), decouple the speaker and don't use spikes. I have had good luck with Herbies gliders, but I do not use them with spikes like Bill does, just the big fat dot in a glider on the bottom of the speaker. You can also use some heavy duty felt as a decoupling device, it is not as good as some commercial products but works very well and is cheap and easy to do.