Systemic Development > Digital Audio Devices
CD Player and two DAC comparisons
Nick B:
--- Quote from: steve on May 26, 2021, 09:55:28 AM ---
--- Quote from: Nick B on May 25, 2021, 11:04:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: steve on May 25, 2021, 06:07:16 PM ---Just compared the Denafrips and will stick with my highly upgraded Modi 2. Just more natural; the -3db at 20hz did
not help the Denafrips.
cheers
steve
--- End quote ---
I was curious about other dacs, especially the Denafrips. Do you recall which model?
Nick
--- End quote ---
Hi Nick,
Yes, the Aries 2, the least expensive model.
But I noticed an interesting feature. If one inspects all the R2R series, except for Terminator and Terminator Plus DACs, the rest have a spec of -3db at 20hz. The Terminator and Plus have a spec of -0,2db at 20hz.
Listening, I found the deep bass was nearly as loud as from my Upgraded Modi 2, which is within 0,1db. Such an aberration between spec and sound is disconcerting to say the least. However, there is more.
However, the Aries 2 definitely had a thinner/leaner lower midrange and mids. It was not bad, and even sounded quite refined. But it was enough to lose the "live", natural sound, especially when compared to my upgraded Modi 2.
The cause could be the use of a really poor capacitor in the analog circuitry, such as a power supply capacitor or coupling capacitor. I remember my old sony TC 350 reel to reel that used electrolytic caps as coupling capacitors. However, I tend to feel the electrolytic cap is more likely in the power supply. Tube amps are noted for fat bass due to electrolytic capacitors.
If the FR spec is good and the sound is great, that is excellent.
If the FR spec is good but the sound is bad, something is wrong.
If the spec is bad, but the sound is good, then something is wrong.
Gotta go.
steve
--- End quote ---
Thanks, Steve. Quite interesting :thumb:
steve:
--- Quote from: Nick B on May 26, 2021, 12:24:08 PM ---
--- Quote from: steve on May 26, 2021, 09:55:28 AM ---
--- Quote from: Nick B on May 25, 2021, 11:04:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: steve on May 25, 2021, 06:07:16 PM ---Just compared the Denafrips and will stick with my highly upgraded Modi 2. Just more natural; the -3db at 20hz did
not help the Denafrips.
cheers
steve
--- End quote ---
I was curious about other dacs, especially the Denafrips. Do you recall which model?
Nick
--- End quote ---
Hi Nick,
Yes, the Aries 2, the least expensive model.
But I noticed an interesting feature. If one inspects all the R2R series, except for Terminator and Terminator Plus DACs, the rest have a spec of -3db at 20hz. The Terminator and Plus have a spec of -0,2db at 20hz.
Listening, I found the deep bass was nearly as loud as from my Upgraded Modi 2, which is within 0,1db. Such an aberration between spec and sound is disconcerting to say the least. However, there is more.
However, the Aries 2 definitely had a thinner/leaner lower midrange and mids. It was not bad, and even sounded quite refined. But it was enough to lose the "live", natural sound, especially when compared to my upgraded Modi 2.
The cause could be the use of a really poor capacitor in the analog circuitry, such as a power supply capacitor or coupling capacitor. I remember my old sony TC 350 reel to reel that used electrolytic caps as coupling capacitors. However, I tend to feel the electrolytic cap is more likely in the power supply. Tube amps are noted for fat bass due to electrolytic capacitors.
If the FR spec is good and the sound is great, that is excellent.
If the FR spec is good but the sound is bad, something is wrong.
If the spec is bad, but the sound is good, then something is wrong.
Gotta go.
steve
--- End quote ---
Thanks, Steve. Quite interesting :thumb:
--- End quote ---
Your welcome Nick. It is definitely leaner than your stock Border Patrol DAC and even more so with the Jupiter cap upgrade.
It worked for audiophile Dan/Susan since he is using either Rogers LS 3/5A or Harbeth speakers in his primary system, I forget which one, and the other in his secondary system. But one has a little bumped upper bass, so the Aries 2 compensates his system.
Cheers
steve
Nick B:
--- Quote from: steve on May 26, 2021, 02:36:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: Nick B on May 26, 2021, 12:24:08 PM ---
--- Quote from: steve on May 26, 2021, 09:55:28 AM ---
--- Quote from: Nick B on May 25, 2021, 11:04:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: steve on May 25, 2021, 06:07:16 PM ---Just compared the Denafrips and will stick with my highly upgraded Modi 2. Just more natural; the -3db at 20hz did
not help the Denafrips.
cheers
steve
--- End quote ---
I was curious about other dacs, especially the Denafrips. Do you recall which model?
Nick
--- End quote ---
Hi Nick,
Yes, the Aries 2, the least expensive model.
But I noticed an interesting feature. If one inspects all the R2R series, except for Terminator and Terminator Plus DACs, the rest have a spec of -3db at 20hz. The Terminator and Plus have a spec of -0,2db at 20hz.
Listening, I found the deep bass was nearly as loud as from my Upgraded Modi 2, which is within 0,1db. Such an aberration between spec and sound is disconcerting to say the least. However, there is more.
However, the Aries 2 definitely had a thinner/leaner lower midrange and mids. It was not bad, and even sounded quite refined. But it was enough to lose the "live", natural sound, especially when compared to my upgraded Modi 2.
The cause could be the use of a really poor capacitor in the analog circuitry, such as a power supply capacitor or coupling capacitor. I remember my old sony TC 350 reel to reel that used electrolytic caps as coupling capacitors. However, I tend to feel the electrolytic cap is more likely in the power supply. Tube amps are noted for fat bass due to electrolytic capacitors.
If the FR spec is good and the sound is great, that is excellent.
If the FR spec is good but the sound is bad, something is wrong.
If the spec is bad, but the sound is good, then something is wrong.
Gotta go.
steve
--- End quote ---
Thanks, Steve. Quite interesting :thumb:
--- End quote ---
Your welcome Nick. It is definitely leaner than your stock Border Patrol DAC and even more so with the Jupiter cap upgrade.
It worked for audiophile Dan/Susan since he is using either LS 3/5A or Harbeth speakers in his primary system, I forget which one, and the other in his secondary system. But one has a little bumped upper bass, so the Aries 2 compensates his system.
Cheers
steve
--- End quote ---
Lean is not a good thing… 👎 I understand about using cables and gear to try and compensate for various system deficiencies, but conceptually, I’m quite against it. I use a full loom of Audio Envy cables and sometimes wonder if I shouldn’t at least experiment with another digital cable, but this hobby can get very time consuming and a bit spendy. Plus, I still need to finish speaker placement etc. But a couple of other projects have priority.
steve:
--- Quote from: Nick B on May 26, 2021, 11:57:01 PM ---
--- Quote from: steve on May 26, 2021, 02:36:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: Nick B on May 26, 2021, 12:24:08 PM ---
--- Quote from: steve on May 26, 2021, 09:55:28 AM ---
--- Quote from: Nick B on May 25, 2021, 11:04:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: steve on May 25, 2021, 06:07:16 PM ---Just compared the Denafrips and will stick with my highly upgraded Modi 2. Just more natural; the -3db at 20hz did
not help the Denafrips.
cheers
steve
--- End quote ---
I was curious about other dacs, especially the Denafrips. Do you recall which model?
Nick
--- End quote ---
Hi Nick,
Yes, the Aries 2, the least expensive model.
But I noticed an interesting feature. If one inspects all the R2R series, except for Terminator and Terminator Plus DACs, the rest have a spec of -3db at 20hz. The Terminator and Plus have a spec of -0,2db at 20hz.
Listening, I found the deep bass was nearly as loud as from my Upgraded Modi 2, which is within 0,1db. Such an aberration between spec and sound is disconcerting to say the least. However, there is more.
However, the Aries 2 definitely had a thinner/leaner lower midrange and mids. It was not bad, and even sounded quite refined. But it was enough to lose the "live", natural sound, especially when compared to my upgraded Modi 2.
The cause could be the use of a really poor capacitor in the analog circuitry, such as a power supply capacitor or coupling capacitor. I remember my old sony TC 350 reel to reel that used electrolytic caps as coupling capacitors. However, I tend to feel the electrolytic cap is more likely in the power supply. Tube amps are noted for fat bass due to electrolytic capacitors.
If the FR spec is good and the sound is great, that is excellent.
If the FR spec is good but the sound is bad, something is wrong.
If the spec is bad, but the sound is good, then something is wrong.
Gotta go.
steve
--- End quote ---
Thanks, Steve. Quite interesting :thumb:
--- End quote ---
Your welcome Nick. It is definitely leaner than your stock Border Patrol DAC and even more so with the Jupiter cap upgrade.
It worked for audiophile Dan/Susan since he is using either LS 3/5A or Harbeth speakers in his primary system, I forget which one, and the other in his secondary system. But one has a little bumped upper bass, so the Aries 2 compensates his system.
Cheers
steve
--- End quote ---
Lean is not a good thing… 👎 I understand about using cables and gear to try and compensate for various system deficiencies, but conceptually, I’m quite against it. I use a full loom of Audio Envy cables and sometimes wonder if I shouldn’t at least experiment with another digital cable, but this hobby can get very time consuming and a bit spendy. Plus, I still need to finish speaker placement etc. But a couple of other projects have priority.
--- End quote ---
Speaker placement can be frustrating, but well worth it. Good luck with your endeavors Nick.
cheers
steve
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