Using an integrated as a Pre amp

[Werd]

Anybody find an integrated that makes a fine preamp too? If the integrated sounds excellent is it not reasonable to assume the integrated would have a fine preamp out too?

I am using this 250 watt Chapter prιcis integrated as a preamp and its works beautifully in my system. This integrated has a pretty big transformer. It also has a pre amp out only setting. I am assuming the preamp gets to dedicate the well built power supply to its preamp,

What is it missing being and integrated that you would get in a dedicated pre amp from Chapter or anyone else?

[tmazz]

In theory an separate Pre has an advantage over an integrated in that it's power supply is not subject to the widely varying power demands  that come from the amp section (especially one that is putting out 250w). However, if the Pre only setting mutes the signal to the power amp section that this is not an issue.

Preamp and power amp power supplies have different design goals and as such if you are designing for one or the other you can optimize the design accordingly, whereas the power supply in an integrated may involve some kind of compromise between the two. Again, in theory. That does not mean that a talented engineer cannot design a power supply for an integrated that performs better (even with the compromises) that then power supplies in another set of separates. Every design is made to a price point and involves tradeoffs of one kind or another. This is why  different pieces of equipment sound differently.

You are essentially using that integrated as a pre, so the real question is not what are you losing because it is an integrated  but rather how does it sound compared to  any other pre (or integrated that is a viable candidate withing your budget. WHile you are tying up money in this piece by paying for the power amp functionality that you are not using keep in mind that many of the "better" preamps will cost as mus, if not more than your integrated. If I were you I wouldn't get hung up on the technology. It's all about what you get (SQ wise) for what you pay.

[Response Audio]

Everything Tmazz said is correct. If you are only using the preamp section, you have quite a bit of money tied up in something where you are not using all its potential. If you were to bi-amp using the power stage of the integrated as well as an additional power amp....its all good.
For what you could sell that unit for, you could get a very nice preamp. Especially on the used market.
It all depends on what intentions you have for your system both now and down the road.

[rollo]

Everything Tmazz said is correct. If you are only using the preamp section, you have quite a bit of money tied up in something where you are not using all its potential. If you were to bi-amp using the power stage of the integrated as well as an additional power amp....its all good.
For what you could sell that unit for, you could get a very nice preamp. Especially on the used market.
It all depends on what intentions you have for your system both now and down the road.

     Si Senor. Yes it works well but but just too much tied up in cash. Try some other preamps nothing to lose everything to gain. For tubed preamps certainly try A Response Audio preamp. for SS Miracle Audio.
    charles

[Response Audio]

Thanks for that Charles

He knows I would take care of him on a preamp if he wanted to go that route.

[rollo]

Thanks for that Charles

He knows I would take care of him on a preamp if he wanted to go that route.

   Eh man good stuff is well good stuff. Your preamps sell themselves.

charles

[sleepyguy24]

I've used older receivers and integrateds as a preamp and it was fine sonically but IMO if you can sell the integrated and not lose too much money I'd rather nix the integrated and get a dedicated preamp. In addition to the points mentioned above one thing that would lead me to make the change is the electric consumption. Some of these integrateds can consume 100s of watts vs a preamp can consume under 50 watts.

[tmazz]

I've used older receivers and integrated as a preamp and it was fine sonically but IMO if you can sell the integrated and not lose too much money I'd rather nix the integrated and get a dedicated preamp. In addition to the points mentioned above one thing that would lead me to make the change is the electric consumption. Some of these integrated can consume 100s of watts vs a preamp can consume under 50 watts.

Yes, but that power consumption is lagrely caused by the operation of the power amp section. If you can set up the integrated in such a way that the power amp section is not being fed a signal then it will draw basically nothing (I don't know many integrated amps that operate in a pure class A mode) and the draw will drop to something similar to a stand alone pre.

[jimbones]

Everything Tmazz said is correct. If you are only using the preamp section, you have quite a bit of money tied up in something where you are not using all its potential. If you were to bi-amp using the power stage of the integrated as well as an additional power amp....its all good.
For what you could sell that unit for, you could get a very nice preamp. Especially on the used market.
It all depends on what intentions you have for your system both now and down the road.

     Si Senor. Yes it works well but but just too much tied up in cash. Try some other preamps nothing to lose everything to gain. For tubed preamps certainly try A Response Audio preamp. for SS Miracle Audio.
    charles

Was that pun intended? (everything to gain)   

[steve]

Tmazz has presented very good points. Thanks T.

The design is also different from the standpoint that a preamp is designed for itself sake, naturalness, while in an integrated, the designing process is typically output and then towards the front/first stages.

As a consequence, the preamplifier stage in an integrated amp is designed to correct for the problems of the later stages. The more accurate/natural the later stages, the more accurate/natural the first/preamplifier stage.

Conversely, the less accurate the later stages, the less accurate the preamplifier/first stage.

One has to also consider the speaker and room when designing the totality of the integrated. The preamplifier is typically designed, at least for me, on an absolute basis. This means I design the speaker/amp as a unit, also considering my venue acoustics.

Cheers

Steve

[tmazz]

Tmazz has presented very good points. Thanks T.

The design is also different from the standpoint that a preamp is designed for itself sake, naturalness, while in an integrated, the designing process is typically output and then towards the front/first stages.

As a consequence, the preamplifier stage in an integrated amp is designed to correct for the problems of the later stages. The more accurate/natural the later stages, the more accurate/natural the first/preamplifier stage.

Conversely, the less accurate the later stages, the less accurate the preamplifier/first stage.

One has to also consider the speaker and room when designing the totality of the integrated. The preamplifier is typically designed, at least for me, on an absolute basis. This means I design the speaker/amp as a unit, also considering my venue acoustics.

Cheers

Steve

Steve we have had many discussions here on AN about the importance of system synergy. And of course the best way to get synergy among the components is to design them as a system right from the start.